Your level of interaction with God?

[Beet]

Discuss. If it's option 1 or 2 please post in the thread saying how it happened. As for me, option 3.

[Blue3]

Other. Through dreams and feelings/intuition, where you just feel God's presence.

[afleitch]

When I was a Christian I prayed. When I struggled with my faith I prayed to a variety of gods. Now I'm not religious I don't pray. Nothing has ever happened as a result of praying to the right god, the wrong god, not praying or laughing during communion as a ten year old.

[Reluctant Republican]

I've actually had an experience happen to my mom.

She's had chronic pain in her knees, especially her left one. She needed to get shots every few months, which would take care of the pain, but only for about three months and she needed to wait six between shots.

Anyway, one night we went out to dinner and browsed the mall. Mom had to sit down a few times, and suddenly these two guys approached us. They asked her if she needed any prayers. She said yes, and explained she had severe pain in her left knee. So they asked us all to pay, right there in the middle of the crowded mall.

I felt incredibly self conscious, feeling like everyone would look at us and think us(and me) weird. And also suspected one of these guys was going to wait until we closed our eyes, and run off with her purse. But I was a bit tipsy from some red wine so I went along with it. It only took about a minute. The men left and told us to have a blessed day.

We started walking again, and maybe six steps later, my mother jerked my hand and said she actually felt the pain in her knee disappearing. That was some months ago, and she's never complained of pain in her left knee since, and she's not needed the shots since then, despite normally counting down the day until she could get them.If it was a placebo effect, I would think it would have faded away by now.  

I've questioned why and how it happened. There are lots of sick people in the world with terminal cancer or other nasty stuff, and we all know most of them are not cured. But just based on seeing the improvement she made, the radical change of going from constantly complaining about her knee to not feeling any pain in it I have to think that something Godly happened that day.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I pray, but my prayers are not of the "God please do this specific thing for me" variety.  Indeed, I see such prayers as impious demands.  My prayers are of the help me better person or that someone else be comforted in a time of trouble varieties without specifying what would be a personal improvement or what would comfort that other person.  As such, options 2 and 4 are not possible answers as my prayers are not testable propositions.

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[DemPGH]

I'm not a spiritual person and never really was. I have certainly prayed before - as a younger person, and felt nothing as a result of it. The prayers that were "answered" were things I was expending considerable time and energy working on. The prayers that were "unanswered" were also things I was expending considerable time and energy working on. It probably all broke even, and I have not prayed in a long time because I see really little point in it. if there is a God, He / She / It, I feel, is very uninterested in the plight of human beings on this little planet in the vast, black, empty void. It's all trial and error for us. And I'm mostly glad for that, because we control our collective and individual futures through the choices we make, and that's really about it. Some catch breaks, some don't.

Edit: In the end, I would say that I do not think a "relationship" with God is possible.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

I prayed once in a while as a youngin'.  No, never answered.  I never pray and never will again. 

[angus]

God... is very uninterested in the plight of human beings...  I'm mostly glad for that

Especially when you think of the gods that prefer to dine on the still-beating hearts of captive enemy warriors, or the ones that require you to spend you last moments in Jonestown.  

Remember when Bender from Futurama became a god, when he had that tiny civilization evolving on his stomach.  Bender had been enjoying his deity status, affecting their lives directly, but in the end harmed them a great deal with his direct involvement.  He learned the hard way what most gods have also probably had to learn the hard way.  In fact, God told Bender that he had much the same experience with helping those who pray to him, and had long since given up directly interfering in the lives of his worshippers.  Bender seemed to eventually understand the light touch.  Bender became frustrated at first and said that "You can count on god for anything" when he made his way back to Fry and the gang and insisted that they save the monks themselves.  Still, as god said to Bender, "When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."

Food for thought, my son.

[afleitch]

What I always find broadly problematic with prayer, is if there is the expectation of a ‘result’ (an intervention) then when it occurs to attribute it to a divine or spiritual intervention (with less attempt to attribute it not working to the same) So for those who believe in the Christian god, he answers your prayers, or if you believe in the Hindu gods, they answer your prayers and so on. So the end result is it doesn’t matter if you pray or who you pray to, the end result is always the same, if there is an end result at all.

Of course for some you interact with god through methods other than prayer; through the ingestion of mild narcotics, through beating drums, through channelling either the god itself or through nature, ancestors etc. Some business savvy people will tell you how to do it for a nominal fee. And each of those people either make the connection because they believe they have made it through that method, or consider it hokum.

If there was a god who demanded worship and answered prayer, then one would expect that those who prayed to the right one had them answered and those who prayed to the wrong one didn't. Given that it doesn't seem to matter which one, or which multitude is prayed to and that everything get's answered/not answered anyway, then it may well be that people haven't found the right one yet(the mighty Apollon )

For example, if people with bad knees recovered because they sacrificed to Asclepius 2000 years ago, pray at church or sprinkle holy water on it today, or evoke their ancestors or generally just get better and put it down to well attested spontaneous remission, then getting over a bad knee isn’t a miraculous intervention because it can happen to anyone (for the same reason not getting over a bad knee isn’t miraculous either) regardless of their prayer/not prayer.

So therefore, one would expect if there was a god who intervened when you made contact with them, then it either doesn’t care how you do it or if you do it at all. That would mean that organised religion making specific claims about god and it’s desires are not correct. However it could also mean that we haven’t found the right god yet, a god who doesn’t concern himself with sore knees, bad backs and lost car keys.

[politicus]

That's only if you pray in the "Oh Lord wont you buy me a Mercedes Benz"-style. I think most Christians pray in a more abstract way asking for spiritual guidance and courage to act. That's how I normally pray. This generally works if you are a believer.
(and whether that has anything to do with God or is just a psychological effect can of course be questioned by you godless creatures )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5hASWFg_Y0

EDIT: Talking about Christians in the Western world here. Concrete "Mercedes Benz"-praying is likely dominant in Latin America and Africa for obvious reasons, all though I know from African friends that they too pray of courage, wisdom etc.

[afleitch]

That's only if you pray in the "Oh Lord wont you buy me a Mercedes Benz"-style. I think most Christians pray in a more abstract way asking for spiritual guidance and courage to act. That's how I normally pray. This generally works if you are a believer.
(and whether that has anything to do with God or is just a psychological effect can of course be questioned by you godless creatures )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5hASWFg_Y0

It generally 'works' from the perspective of the believer, if you are a believer in anything; any god, any spiritual world view. That was the point I was trying to make

[DemPGH]

As a youngster I never prayed for a pot of gold, a wealthy benefactor, or a sports car because my parents taught me that such things were impossible (God does not "act in those ways"), materialistic, and foolish. Okay. I suppose I tended to pray about things that were simply beyond my control. I guess it's why people are superstitious, although I was never, ever superstitious.

Praying for enlightenment or guidance is probably something I never did either - and interestingly as I got older, more educated, and more experienced, the enlightenment developed as a result.

God... is very uninterested in the plight of human beings...  I'm mostly glad for that

Especially when you think of the gods that prefer to dine on the still-beating hearts of captive enemy warriors, or the ones that require you to spend you last moments in Jonestown. 

Remember when Bender from Futurama became a god, when he had that tiny civilization evolving on his stomach.  Bender had been enjoying his deity status, affecting their lives directly, but in the end harmed them a great deal with his direct involvement.  He learned the hard way what most gods have also probably had to learn the hard way.  In fact, God told Bender that he had much the same experience with helping those who pray to him, and had long since given up directly interfering in the lives of his worshippers.  Bender seemed to eventually understand the light touch.  Bender became frustrated at first and said that "You can count on god for anything" when he made his way back to Fry and the gang and insisted that they save the monks themselves.  Still, as god said to Bender, "When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."

Food for thought, my son.

Haha. Yes, the gods that humans invented have tended to be vindictive, petty, demanding of worship, angry, jealous, possessive, and to have a penchant for breaking their own rules en masse. People have often put their worst into their gods. So I would just as soon have those gods leave us alone to our own potential.

Never watched Futurama. In some circles that's just awful, but beyond sports I don't really have much to do with entertainment culture. I overall tend to like things that don't have broad appeal because the stuff that has broad appeal behind it I tend to find boring and uninteresting.

I will say Gene Roddenberry was good as serving up gods that you would want nothing to do with. Granted, most of then were computers that blew a few fuses, but the effect was the same!

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I will say Gene Roddenberry was good as serving up gods that you would want nothing to do with. Granted, most of then were computers that blew a few fuses, but the effect was the same!

One wonders how such sophisticated computers proved buggier than Windows and its blue screen of death.

[Tokugawa Sexgod Ieyasu]

if there is a God, He / She / It, I feel, is very uninterested in the plight of human beings on this little planet in the vast, black, empty void.

I'll answer and explain my answer to the OP's question later, but I have to say, I've never understood this sensiblity at all, and I've heard people say things like this a lot. 'If there is a God' then God must be concerned with scale or some other quantifiable form of relative impressiveness? God's attention must be somehow limited in scope and drawn primarily to whatever is largest or most common or both? How does this follow? I'm pretty sure there are some unspoken assumptions at work here, or else I'm fundamentally misunderstanding what's being asserted.

[afleitch]

if there is a God, He / She / It, I feel, is very uninterested in the plight of human beings on this little planet in the vast, black, empty void.

I'll answer and explain my answer to the OP's question later, but I have to say, I've never understood this sensiblity at all, and I've heard people say things like this a lot. 'If there is a God' then God must be concerned with scale or some other quantifiable form of relative impressiveness? God's attention must be somehow limited in scope and drawn primarily to whatever is largest or most common or both? How does this follow? I'm pretty sure there are some unspoken assumptions at work here, or else I'm fundamentally misunderstanding what's being asserted.

I think, and borrowing a little from a recent thread on here, it’s not that a creator god would not care about the infinite and the finite and everything in between. What’s problematic is the idea that according to the some religions, this god revealed himself to us and gave his intents and commands and in the context of this thread, listens to our pleas. That is an anthropocentric worldview (and it’s a lot more than a worldview too) The idea that in a universe(s) with countless galaxies, stars, planets and lifeforms we are ‘numero uno’ is problematic. Even to suggest that we hold that position on this planet presents ethical problems. Many religions and belief systems don’t make such claims. The Abrahamic religions do however make claims in the creation story and even if you exchange ‘dominion’ for ‘stewardship’ that is still espousing an anthropocentric worldview. Furthermore, the whole process of revelation is also an example of the same.

Therefore those who argue that they know the intent of god through what was revealed can only ever understand that revelation through human understanding. For example it is often said that ‘god is love’ because love is ‘good’. It’s good because it’s an evolutionary advantage to us. However ‘hate’ may also be an evolutionary advantage to another race somewhere. Another race may have no concept of either.

[Torie]

When I go to the internet white pages, I can't find his/her phone number.

[memphis]

I think there is a lot of wisdom in prayer or meditation if it's defined as taking a moment to block out all the noise of the outside world for a few minutes to relax, lower blood pressure, and think about what would be good decisions going forward or to be thankful for the things in one's life. Prayer's not going to cure cancer or make you a millionaire, but I think we could all use some Brief Relaxations® and that's what prayer is good for.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

When I go to the internet white pages, I can't find his/her phone number.

+91-44-25600600  Jesus Calls

[DemPGH]

if there is a God, He / She / It, I feel, is very uninterested in the plight of human beings on this little planet in the vast, black, empty void.

I'll answer and explain my answer to the OP's question later, but I have to say, I've never understood this sensiblity at all, and I've heard people say things like this a lot. 'If there is a God' then God must be concerned with scale or some other quantifiable form of relative impressiveness? God's attention must be somehow limited in scope and drawn primarily to whatever is largest or most common or both? How does this follow? I'm pretty sure there are some unspoken assumptions at work here, or else I'm fundamentally misunderstanding what's being asserted.

I think you're kind of understanding it in a Deistic sense, and I'm not a Deist. I don't mean it that way, at least. In formulating my opinion I'm trying to do a couple things. And it's interesting because I just had a conversation this morning with an elderly person in the community who was telling me that on Tuesday nights or Wednesday nights or at some point she's involved with her husband in a social church thing at one of the local coffee shops where they "learn the truth about God." That phrasing, if considered, is to me preposterous. You can't. But I just nodded and kept going once the conversation was over.

1. Afleitch's post gets at this superbly: I'm trying to avoid emotionally connecting myself to the cosmos, as in trying to not make the cosmos about me. And I don't want to make God about me either. Because there's no reason to, simply. For example, it used to be believed that comets were harbingers of doom - that's all I need say.

2. I also see no evidence whatsoever that a deity is involved with the events on this planet. The hardest thing for me to accept is that an invisible, omnipotent man is working behind the scenes to make this or that happen or not happen. There is no evidence that prayer has any effect on anything in any discernible way, for ex.

3. In short, I just see no reason to think God does things in peoples' lives. "God helped me get my promotion." No, you worked for it, and your boss likes you. That makes infinitely more sense. "Well God helped me find my car keys so I was not late for my meeting." Well why didn't God help me find mine? And why does God allow children to die of starvation in poor countries? It doesn't make sense. It makes more sense to say you looked in the right place by process of elimination for your keys.

In the end, I need a physical, tangible god in front of me, and then I need to know who made it or where it came from, where it lives, etc.

[Tokugawa Sexgod Ieyasu]

if there is a God, He / She / It, I feel, is very uninterested in the plight of human beings on this little planet in the vast, black, empty void.

I'll answer and explain my answer to the OP's question later, but I have to say, I've never understood this sensiblity at all, and I've heard people say things like this a lot. 'If there is a God' then God must be concerned with scale or some other quantifiable form of relative impressiveness? God's attention must be somehow limited in scope and drawn primarily to whatever is largest or most common or both? How does this follow? I'm pretty sure there are some unspoken assumptions at work here, or else I'm fundamentally misunderstanding what's being asserted.

I think you're kind of understanding it in a Deistic sense, and I'm not a Deist. I don't mean it that way, at least. In formulating my opinion I'm trying to do a couple things. And it's interesting because I just had a conversation this morning with an elderly person in the community who was telling me that on Tuesday nights or Wednesday nights or at some point she's involved with her husband in a social church thing at one of the local coffee shops where they "learn the truth about God." That phrasing, if considered, is to me preposterous. You can't. But I just nodded and kept going once the conversation was over.

1. Afleitch's post gets at this superbly: I'm trying to avoid emotionally connecting myself to the cosmos, as in trying to not make the cosmos about me. And I don't want to make God about me either. Because there's no reason to, simply. For example, it used to be believed that comets were harbingers of doom - that's all I need say.

2. I also see no evidence whatsoever that a deity is involved with the events on this planet. The hardest thing for me to accept is that an invisible, omnipotent man is working behind the scenes to make this or that happen or not happen. There is no evidence that prayer has any effect on anything in any discernible way, for ex.

3. In short, I just see no reason to think God does things in peoples' lives. "God helped me get my promotion." No, you worked for it, and your boss likes you. That makes infinitely more sense. "Well God helped me find my car keys so I was not late for my meeting." Well why didn't God help me find mine? And why does God allow children to die of starvation in poor countries? It doesn't make sense. It makes more sense to say you looked in the right place by process of elimination for your keys.

Okay. All of this makes sense, as does what afleitch said; what concerns me, and what I thought you were saying originally, is the idea that there's something intrinsic to the way the concept of God is formulated such that, were one to exist, humans would be by definition beneath that God's notice, since we are small. I know you're not a deist, but I've known atheists who have said that 'if there is a God, this God is a deist God' as if this somehow inherently follows from the concept, as opposed to through further observations and beliefs about how the world is, and it strikes me as presumptuous and begging the question.

But, yes, all of what you're saying here makes sense, even though I (obviously) disagree with some of the premises.

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This, however, still absolutely baffles me, but it seems like a sufficiently basic difference in worldview to not really be much use to either of us debating.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Option 2.  God has answered my prayers in so many ways that I can't name them all.  I remember praying for a classmate in middle school and being overjoyed to see him on TV at a confirmation at one of the local Lutheran churches.  I knew then that God had answered my prayers in a wonderful way.  I also remember praying for many other things, mostly little things, and my prayers were rewarded and answered numerous times.  Some people might argue that it's just coincidence, but after a certain number of times it becomes almost impossible for it to be simple chance.  As Jesus said, ask and it shall be given, seek and you shall find, knock and the door will be opened to you.

[angus]

When I go to the internet white pages, I can't find his/her phone number.

You're just not looking hard enough.  According to the Internet White Pages, in El Paso alone there are 99 people named Jesus Ramirez, 114 named Jesus Hernandez, etc., etc.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

When I go to the internet white pages, I can't find his/her phone number.

You're just not looking hard enough.  According to the Internet White Pages, in El Paso alone there are 99 people named Jesus Ramirez, 114 named Jesus Hernandez, etc., etc.

Yeah, but I doubt you'll find anyone named "Jesus Christ."  That's probably where he's coming from.

[angus]

Yeah, but I doubt you'll find anyone named "Jesus Christ."  That's probably where he's coming from.

okay.

Um, yeah, I'm thinking that the name you might be reaching for is Jesus of Nazareth.  (The Christ is sort of like an honorific title, like The Buddha or The Champ.  It actually means something like "anointed one" in Greek.)  Anyway, you'll want to look under N, not C, in that Palestinian phone directory when you're searching for Jesus.  I'm sure you already know all this, being a well-educated man and all, but I just thought it might be useful to point it out for others.  

[barfbag]

I pray and most people do, but if everything is according to God's plan, then are prayers answered at all? I believe God knows ahead of time what we'll do but it's a reflection of cause and effect. Whether or not it's God's plan can't be answered by us finites, but most Christians believe things are according to God's will so how do we deal with the problem of prayer at odds with God's divine plan?