SENATE BILL: Protecting our Service Men and Women 2013 (Passed)

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

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Sponsor: Ben

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

SPONSOR?!!! WHAT IS THE STORY HERE!!!!

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

If Ben doesn't get in here I am going to trash can this bill!!!!

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I will be harassing the sponsor...

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Yeah, I'd really love some explaining.

Aren't such crimes already fully covered under the CJC?

[Kaine for Senate '18]

This bill, introduced on behalf of the SoEA, simply adds additional protections for our service members.  It's adding another layer.  I'll let the SoEA get into the specifics.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Yeah, I'm in the same boat as Nix on this one. What's the status quo? Why are these changes necessary?

[MaxQue]

Bills should improve things or solve problems.

Perhaps it improves things or solves problems, but that's not very clear at the moment.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Can we get those specifics some time soon? And what better day than today for it?

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

I repeat the call for specifics. Shouldn't most of this already be covered under current law?

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

Some points in relation to this.

The first is that the reporting of serious crimes against the person is much lower in the military than in the general population, which is too low already.

Research shows that a large impediment to reporting of these crimes is the use of military justice over the civilian justice system. There are many cases of serious cases being dismissed for operational and other reasons, not related to the legality of the crime or any sort of resolution.

The purpose of this Bill is two fold, the first is to direct more resources for training of those in positions of care and leadership as to the proper way to handle serious crimes against the person, including taking responsibility away from the military for the prosecution and punishment of these crimes and placing them in the hands of civilian authorities whose only purpose is the application of the law.

The second purpose is to send a message to military leadership that they need to lift their game, too often, serious crimes, especially sexual assaults are left unreported or un-managed, purely for the sake of 'cohesion'. Civilian justice's concern is the application of the law, without being encumbered by such concerns.

I've heard a lot about what current law covers... now this isn't a Bill purely about the laws in isolation. It's about reforms to the current system of military justice to address a significant shortcoming, that is, that operational concerns can trump the protection of service personnel and there is clearly not a culture that is open to such claims. Plus there is also the problem that many, many people in the chain of command and those is positions of pastoral care for service personnel are not doing their jobs properly.

I don't see this as any kind of slap in the face of the military, but accepting that the current system is allowing too many cases of serious crimes to slip through the cracks, is not workable.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Okay, whats going on here Duke? Is this finished?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

HELLO?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IS THERE ANYBODY ALIVE OUT THERE?!!!!!


IF SO I CAN TOTALLY CHANGE THAT FOR YOU, IF YOU LIKE!

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Sorry. I lost interest in this when no one advocated for it.

This bill is now at final vote.

Senators can vote aye, nay or abstain.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Aye

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

AYE

I don't know how much of this will actually secure progress, but I think that it is an effort in the right direction in addressing rather complex problem. I think there is a great degree of difficulty in addressing this precisely because the structure and attitude of the military (aspects which are in some ways necessary like the unit cohesion and so force) make it difficult to shine a light on these problems for fear it will damage that. Of course, it is hard for the victim to partake in such cohesion when they are being abused and the very system that is supposed to strengthen thme is instead silencing and disempowering them.

[MaxQue]

Aye, I suppose.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Abstain

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

Respectfully, I'm kind of startled that this Bill's intent is not clear.

There is a tremendous problem of crimes against the person, especially sexual assault, within the armed forces.

The current arrangements within military justice have been proven to be inadequate and ineffective when it comes to the management, investigation and punishment of these crimes.

This Bill is designed to take the responsibility for the handling of crimes, such as these, out of the hands of military justice and into those of civilian authorities. As well as increase resources to better train military leaders and support staff to better handle these crimes.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Abstain

[Sbane]

Aye

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Why is this taking so damn long. This issue has been all over the damn news recently and so it comes down to the merits of the bill in addressing them and whether or not you think this is worth trying to address it. I am not sure whether or not it will work or not myself, but I think that if we have a proposal to make changes, then lets do that and see how it goes. I don't get the Abstensions on this, what can be so damn controversial about this that you can decide one way or another? This is D-Day, D F**king Day and we still haven't finished this vote. Its shamefull.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Aye

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Yankee, I abstained because I don't know enough about the military to make a decision. I appreciate the responses from the secretary, but how am I to know that the arguments about "cohesion" aren't actually valid? The military is a unique animal, and all it takes is one soldier who never really belonged in the army in the first place to blow the whistle on "horseplay" for the whole unit to get dragged down in investigations. Isn't that a possible consequence here? I'm not saying some of the alleged harassments aren't serious, but I can see both sides here, and I wouldn't want to take a blind leap in one direction over the other when I really don't know the context. 

Training military higher-ups on how to deal with these incidents is admirable, but I can't say with any credibility whether or not the bill goes too far. I think abstaining is the right thing for me to do.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Duke remember to end this disgrace of a vote at 7:00 tonight.