Sweden stunned by third night of Stockholm rioting

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

(Is that roughly what the Sweden Democrats say or are they taking a more moderate approach ?)

Well their Youth Union wants to use military force against the rioters... so, no.
But yeah the usual calls for unlawful immigrants to be sent home, and their entire family as well, are of course also being made.

[mubar]

More riots going on tonight, now in Botkyrka and Malmö as well.

Sigh, obviously these people will only end up making things worse for themselves, why don't they understand that?

It's hard to imagine a better course of action for the rioters. They're systematically excluded from society and as a result face tremendous limitations in the political sphere that prevent legal action. Protests would presumably be met with jeers and insults; a party based on immigrant identity would be powerless. Not an insight but I think it's important to point out.

Yeah, clearly the Swedes are the problem here.  They should leave and let these people take over.  The countries they came from are perfect and they just want to spread that perfection to Sweden (and France and the UK and ...).

For your information, in Sweden the criminal immigrants used to be Finns. Integration to the society just doesn't happen overnight, and if you are unemployed and look different than the major population, it may not succeed at all. Leading to such struggles between classes like this.

I haven't followed this more than what we get constantly from Finnish media, but consider this. What started the problems was police shooting a nearly 70-year-old man in his home. The man was Portuguese, married with a Finn. According to the police, he was causing trouble and was armed with a knife, so they storm into his apartment - and shoot him. The neighborhood finds this was one time too many of police excesses, so during the next week they organize peaceful demonstrations. No one cares. If protests don't work, often someone gets frustrated. So now we have a few dozen young boys rioting every night, and now, suddenly everyone cares a lot.

Anyway as far as I know, the only person already arrested for rioting is a Finnish citizen. Our papers are also of the opinion that the rioting looks less like a warzone and more like some sort of weird theatre: every night the group of youngsters goes around a bit, breaks things and torches a few cars, and that's pretty much it. Word on the street is even that certain two evening tabloids are paying some rioters for videos of burning cars...

[politicus]

More riots going on tonight, now in Botkyrka and Malmö as well.

Sigh, obviously these people will only end up making things worse for themselves, why don't they understand that?

It's hard to imagine a better course of action for the rioters. They're systematically excluded from society and as a result face tremendous limitations in the political sphere that prevent legal action. Protests would presumably be met with jeers and insults; a party based on immigrant identity would be powerless. Not an insight but I think it's important to point out.

Yeah, clearly the Swedes are the problem here.  They should leave and let these people take over.  The countries they came from are perfect and they just want to spread that perfection to Sweden (and France and the UK and ...).

For your information, in Sweden the criminal immigrants used to be Finns. Integration to the society just doesn't happen overnight, and if you are unemployed and look different than the major population, it may not succeed at all. Leading to such struggles between classes like this.

I haven't followed this more than what we get constantly from Finnish media, but consider this. What started the problems was police shooting a nearly 70-year-old man in his home. The man was Portuguese, married with a Finn. According to the police, he was causing trouble and was armed with a knife, so they storm into his apartment - and shoot him. The neighborhood finds this was one time too many of police excesses, so during the next week they organize peaceful demonstrations. No one cares. If protests don't work, often someone gets frustrated. So now we have a few dozen young boys rioting every night, and now, suddenly everyone cares a lot.

Anyway as far as I know, the only person already arrested for rioting is a Finnish citizen.

Perhaps he became Finnish by osmosis? As we all know Finns and knifes is a lethal combination..

Anyway, even if you are right its just "a few young boys" it can still be pretty scary for the residents in the areas.

[Хahar 🤔]

More riots going on tonight, now in Botkyrka and Malmö as well.

Sigh, obviously these people will only end up making things worse for themselves, why don't they understand that?

It's hard to imagine a better course of action for the rioters. They're systematically excluded from society and as a result face tremendous limitations in the political sphere that prevent legal action. Protests would presumably be met with jeers and insults; a party based on immigrant identity would be powerless. Not an insight but I think it's important to point out.

Yeah, clearly the Swedes are the problem here.  They should leave and let these people take over.  The countries they came from are perfect and they just want to spread that perfection to Sweden (and France and the UK and ...).

These people, huh?

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

Based off of my understanding of Sweden's response to migration, there was no "gross exaggeration" in my post. Immigrants in Sweden are sequestered into housing developments constructed when the Million Programme was implemented. In many of these suburban neighborhoods, the unemployment rate approaches fifty percent. This leads to welfare dependence, crime and a increasingly uniform perception of immigrants as an irreconcilable class in Swedish society. This stereotype, reflected by reduced inter-marriage rates, contributes to the trap faced by Swedish migrants as reports of discrimination in hiring decisions increase year after year. As stereotypes become bolstered and the expectation of immigrants is criminality and laziness, societal tension increases dramatically leading increased attacks on immigrants. This is a positive feedback loop that has spiraled out of control. Even if Sweden is not an apartheid state, its response to migration has produced a situation in resembling one. And yes, Sweden is largely at fault for these riots because its policies have prevent integration as emigrants are effectively barred from the labor market.

Of course riots aren't the answer but unemployment, policy brutality and diminished expectations that place immigrants as an out-group in Sweden all contribute to an atmosphere where I can't imagine other mass action as feasible. Perhaps I am uneducated but it appears that there are numerous barriers that prevent immigrants in Sweden from integrating and so long as these barriers exist, current policy is unsustainable.

[politicus]

To DFB: Most of the stuff you write is hyperbole and immigrants, like everybody else, are responsible for their own lives. There are plenty of opportunities in Sweden and its generally a tolerant country.

Police brutality is quite low in Sweden compared to most other countries.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Yeah, you just need to meet the Met (so to speak) to see that.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

To DFB: Most of the stuff you write is hyperbole and immigrants, like everybody else, are responsible for their own lives. There are plenty of opportunities in Sweden and its generally a tolerant country.

Police brutality is quite low in Sweden compared to most other countries.

The high differential unemployment rate between immigrants and Swedes of native origin suggests otherwise and results suggest applicants of native-origin are discriminated against during the hiring process.

http://www.ilo.org/wcmsp5/groups/public/---ed_protect/---protrav/---migrant/documents/publication/wcms_201428.pdf

Of course there are plenty of opportunities for immigrants in Sweden, why else would they emigrate there? Yet these opportunities remain distant and Sweden's current policies are ineffectual at removing existing barriers that prevent immigrants from reaching them. Placing responsibility for policy change on those at the bottom strata of society is absurd.

The fact that these problems can exist in a country as tolerant and egalitarian as Sweden is disturbing.  It really calls into question how the idea that the Nordic model and mass immigration are reconcilable in their current configuration. The two need not be exclusive. Inflexible labor markets could be reformed and different approaches towards integration could be taken.

re: police brutality claim, this is true yet minorities in Sweden are certainly targeted/profiled by the police.

[Tayya]

Apparantly almost none of the rioters taken into custody by the police are locals, meaning that yes, most of these people are there just to make trouble.

Bastards.

[Leftbehind]

I love how many of you are projecting the fault of prejudicial repercussions onto the rioters, and not those practising it. Those gentle white Swedes had no choice!

[Tayya]

I love how many of you are projecting the fault of prejudicial repercussions onto the rioters, and not those practising it. Those gentle white Swedes had no choice!

I'm not exactly a fan of prejudicial structures in my country either, and I condemn those very strongly, but in this case, there are bad individuals that should be highlighted and shamed. While finding structural causes for the problems is commendable, some people tend to gloss over the individuals being horrible people.

With that said, I apologize for implying that the rioters are the ones responsible for racism.

[ingemann]

Based off of my understanding of Sweden's response to migration, there was no "gross exaggeration" in my post. Immigrants in Sweden are sequestered into housing developments constructed when the Million Programme was implemented. In many of these suburban neighborhoods, the unemployment rate approaches fifty percent. This leads to welfare dependence, crime and a increasingly uniform perception of immigrants as an irreconcilable class in Swedish society. This stereotype, reflected by reduced inter-marriage rates, contributes to the trap faced by Swedish migrants as reports of discrimination in hiring decisions increase year after year. As stereotypes become bolstered and the expectation of immigrants is criminality and laziness, societal tension increases dramatically leading increased attacks on immigrants. This is a positive feedback loop that has spiraled out of control. Even if Sweden is not an apartheid state, its response to migration has produced a situation in resembling one. And yes, Sweden is largely at fault for these riots because its policies have prevent integration as emigrants are effectively barred from the labor market.

Of course riots aren't the answer but unemployment, policy brutality and diminished expectations that place immigrants as an out-group in Sweden all contribute to an atmosphere where I can't imagine other mass action as feasible. Perhaps I am uneducated but it appears that there are numerous barriers that prevent immigrants in Sweden from integrating and so long as these barriers exist, current policy is unsustainable.

What a bunch of crap. Yes Sweden have a failed integration policy, but it's not a result of the Swedes being hard on the poor immigrant, it's because the state are afraid of being harsh on them. When you don't set up demand, keep using only carrot and doesn't active spread emigrants out in a welfare state, you end up with these enclaves.

As for Swedes not hiring them, who in their right mind would hire them, they are below unskilled workers in usefulness, many don't speak Swedish, more only rudimentary Swedish, many are analphabets more just functional analphabets, they don't know the Swedish social mores and significant part of them have a criminal background. Sounds like real good workers.

As for abusive cops, it's interesting that in this time of cameras on every mobilephone, none of the abuses by the police we have been told have happen under the riots have been filmed. you would think that if the cops began to beat women and children someone would film it.

I can't help find it hilarious, that the Swedish state in their attempt to be as inclusive, cultural relativist and tolerant as possible end up being called racist.

[DC Al Fine]

I find it hilarious that people are suggesting that Swedish police are brutal

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

I never called the Swedish state racist, I said that its policies has created an outcome that breeds racist sentiments. Policy reform that would successfully integrate immigrants is now an impossibility due to this xenophobia. It appears that you disagree with immigration and the idea of achieving inclusivity/tolerance through multiculturalism. Your policy prescriptions are not working towards this goal but rather coming as close as possible to the idyllic post-war Nordic nation which is futile and inane. Perhaps this is a strawman attack but your post reeked of bigotry that reminds me of straight-R voters in the states. You do not care about the situation facing immigrants, you'd like to expel them as quickly as possible from your borders.

[Indy Texas]

While on a certain level I see the problems the British and the French have with their angry, radical Muslim population as the chickens of colonialism coming home to roost (they plodded around Africa and Asia for decades; no big surprise when their former subjects decide to pop in for an extended visit), the Swedish people don't deserve this. What have they ever done to anyone except provide affordable home furnishings to twenty-somethings and quirky automobiles to liberal arts college professors?

[Ban my account ffs!]

More riots going on tonight, now in Botkyrka and Malmö as well.

Sigh, obviously these people will only end up making things worse for themselves, why don't they understand that?

It's hard to imagine a better course of action for the rioters. They're systematically excluded from society and as a result face tremendous limitations in the political sphere that prevent legal action. Protests would presumably be met with jeers and insults; a party based on immigrant identity would be powerless. Not an insight but I think it's important to point out.

Yeah, clearly the Swedes are the problem here.  They should leave and let these people take over.  The countries they came from are perfect and they just want to spread that perfection to Sweden (and France and the UK and ...).

These people, huh?

Yeah, I imagine as the child of immigrants, a holy load of sh**t like dead0man's post might be kind of offensive.

[dead0man]

More riots going on tonight, now in Botkyrka and Malmö as well.

Sigh, obviously these people will only end up making things worse for themselves, why don't they understand that?

It's hard to imagine a better course of action for the rioters. They're systematically excluded from society and as a result face tremendous limitations in the political sphere that prevent legal action. Protests would presumably be met with jeers and insults; a party based on immigrant identity would be powerless. Not an insight but I think it's important to point out.

Yeah, clearly the Swedes are the problem here.  They should leave and let these people take over.  The countries they came from are perfect and they just want to spread that perfection to Sweden (and France and the UK and ...).

These people, huh?

When you stop advocating the murder of children whose only sin in life is living where you don't think they should MAYBE you can start feeling morally superior to me.  Until then, shut the fuck up son.

[Boris]

Yeah, if you can't "integrate" into the society that the Nordic Countries have created, there no where on the planet you can "integrate" into. I'm not going all apesh**t like the Sweden Democrats and advocate mass deportations, but these people are desecrating a beautiful  society and Sweden would be immensely better off if they weren't in their country.

[opebo]

Is it really that controversial to deport the rioters? I kind of figured it would be standard policy if they were non citizens and caught smashing up shops/assaulting people

Haha, yes you would think so wouldn't you?  We expatriates in Thailand are always walking around on tip-toe trying to get along well, assuming we'll be kicked out if we have even the slightest impropriety or personal conflict with a Thai. 

I'm sure we'd be sent out in a matter of days if we dared to attack anyone or anything.

[HansOslo]

Yeah, if you can't "integrate" into the society that the Nordic Countries have created, there no where on the planet you can "integrate" into. I'm not going all apesh**t like the Sweden Democrats and advocate mass deportations, but these people are desecrating a beautiful  society and Sweden would be immensely better off if they weren't in their country.

I agree.

[ingemann]

Sorry I have not answered earlier.

I never called the Swedish state racist,

Calling Sweden a apartheit state may technical not be calling Sweden racist, but I doubt anyone who read the comment didn't tanslate it into precisely that

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Not really, any racist sentiment are a counter-reaction on the immigrants counter-reaction over the Swedish policies.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Interesting perspective, a naive but interesting.

 

You must be logged in to read this quote.

That's sweet, and a bit hilarious. I don't really have a problem with multiculteralism, it's bunch policy tools as much as every other policy tools. Here the Swedes have chosen really wrong in how to use them, they have decided the best way to use it, is by only adopting the carrot method and forgetting the stick. I on the other hand think that carrots are really nice, but sometimes a big stick work a whole lot better.

P

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I love you Americans binary understanding of politics, it's so sweet and naive, either you have to be a gullible cultural-relativist or you have to be a neo-Nazi. There's a lot room between those two points. In fact I support immigration, but I support immigration policies which are beneficial to both natives and immigrants, and in the Swedish case I honestly don't see them as beneficial for either. I also support countries taking refugees in, but no more than the countries can deal with.

[ingemann]

Yeah, if you can't "integrate" into the society that the Nordic Countries have created, there no where on the planet you can "integrate" into. I'm not going all apesh**t like the Sweden Democrats and advocate mass deportations, but these people are desecrating a beautiful  society and Sweden would be immensely better off if they weren't in their country.

The Swedish reaction have been "we have done nothing and we are out of idea", they haven't even diagnosed the problem; most still blame "inherent racism in the Swedish system", well that exist, but it have nothing to do with the problem. The problem are that they have placed unskilled and unemployed immigrant in social housings. This in itself are not the world's biggest problem, but when we mix it with areas mostly made up of these social housing, and a state which is afraid of setting up demands, we get parallel societies of people who have little respect for the general society. This worsen even more when the state adopt the policy view that "diversity is positive", while diversity can be good thing, it's really not a good thing, when diversity just mean "we have a bunch of unskilled people, who know next to nothing about Swedish society and barely speak Swedish, and we work to keep it that way".
Of course when the Swedish liberal right come along and embrace all this stupidity, but at the same time begin to cut the unemployment benefits.

I don't blame the immigrants, it's not their fault that the Swedish governments in misunderstood tolerance have behaved like idiots. Yes the needed policy changes will hurt a lot of immigrants, but change hurt and Swedes both native and New Swedes need change.