Are IQ tests relevant and or meaningful?

[DC Al Fine]

As far as race and IQ are concerned I would post a couple of simple maps/graphs



and



I do not want to get into a debate about what is race.  I think what is safe to say is "people from different parts of the world as of 300-400 years ago have different IQ and migration of said people to different parts of the world does not seem to change this IQ difference."  People that were from East Asia have different IQ as opposed to people from Sub-Sahara Africa when calibrated from where they lived 300-400 years ago.  When these people from those regions moved to other regions of the world the IQ differences persisted with respect to their decedents despite living in the same regions of the world.  

I am so sick of bigots.

It's useless to infer differences in intelligence in America because of it's history. The reasons why Vietnamese or Koreans are here are very different than the reasons why most blacks are here, and it will show up in IQ tests. That's even before we start accounting for things like child hunger, single motherhood etc.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

If there is a correlation between wealth and IQ then I think that further discredits IQ tests. No genuinely intelligent person wants to be wealthy.

[Link]

Not sure what you mean by "what they're pushing."  I assume you mean those that assert that IQ is only a function of biology and genetics.  I think I already make the point that I think it is equally illogical to rule out genetics as a factor as is to assert that genetics is the only factor.

Your problem is you think you know what IQ is and how to measure it.  There are tons of scientists out there with multiple graduate degrees and years of experience who would quite comfortably admit they don't really have a good grasp of the concept of IQ and none of the test available are adequate to measure it... whatever it is.  I just don't understand why you are so confident in your proclamations?  And not only that are quite comfortable to make your racial extrapolations involving IQ.

The sad thing is the human genome was sequenced years ago.  This fact seems to have eluded some people.  Since then wide spread genetic testing has shown "black" people in the United States genetically are not similar to "black" people in Africa.  In fact they have a healthy helping of European genes.  So that should mean based upon your crude science they should out perform their African brethren academically.  I have seen no indication that they do.

It's fascinating that when the thoroughbred "black" people from Africa outperform the "black" people from the United States no one says hmmm... maybe all those white European genes African Americans are carrying are detrimental.  I've never seen that postulate.  I wonder why?

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Denial of American Miscegnation has been one of the cornerstones of many, many schools of American history.

[pbrower2a]

Denial of American Miscegnation has been one of the cornerstones of many, many schools of American history.

...and at what point do "white" genes that define any 'racial' difference in intelligence overpower those of "black" genes? Dark skin color is a dominant trait, but as we all know, skin is not where IQ lies.

The raw truth is that about everyone descended from African slaves in America is some part white. On Who Do You Think You Are the retired football star Emmett Smith was surprised that he was just under one-eighth white, and the genealogist told him upon showing the results of the DNA test that African-Americans were almost never less "white" than he.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Denial of American Miscegnation has been one of the cornerstones of many, many schools of American history.

...and at what point do "white" genes that define any 'racial' difference in intelligence overpower those of "black" genes? Dark skin color is a dominant trait, but as we all know, skin is not where IQ lies.

The raw truth is that about everyone descended from African slaves in America is some part white. On Who Do You Think You Are the retired football star Emmett Smith was surprised that he was just under one-eighth white, and the genealogist told him upon showing the results of the DNA test that African-Americans were almost never less "white" than he.

I didn't say otherwise... (quite a few blacks - no idea of the number really - also have some Native American in them too... but that would be going quite a bit back actually).

[Link]

Denial of American Miscegnation has been one of the cornerstones of many, many schools of American history.

Actually it forms the entirety of recent American history and a disturbing amount of fringe "science."  My friends from Europe and Africa often do not consider many African Americans "black."  Before I explain to them the only way to keep the peace is to pretend they are "black" some of them (the Europeans) are inclined to ask American "blacks" about their lineage.  I explain to them that is an very very bad idea.  It is better to pretend there are just all part of a made up "black" race that includes everyone in subSaharan Africa.

It is only when scientists start using this concept of a "black" race and drawing all sorts of ludicrous straight lines do I put my foot down.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Denial of American Miscegnation has been one of the cornerstones of many, many schools of American history.

Actually it forms the entirety of recent American history and a disturbing amount of fringe "science."  My friends from Europe and Africa often do not consider many African Americans "black."  Before I explain to them the only way to keep the peace is to pretend they are "black" some of them (the Europeans) are inclined to ask American "blacks" about their lineage.  I explain to them that is an very very bad idea.  It is better to pretend there are just all part of a made up "black" race that includes everyone in subSaharan Africa.

It is only when scientists start using this concept of a "black" race and drawing all sorts of ludicrous straight lines do I put my foot down.

Anyone who does that is not a scientist.

Yes, most US blacks would be considered 'coloreds' in South Africa for example.

[Link]

Yes, most US blacks would be considered 'coloreds' in South Africa for example.

It's been awhile since I've heard that term.  The Europeans I know used the term "half caste."  It really grates on my ears.  I have no idea how a "black" American would react to it coming from a white person with a funny accent.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Yes, most US blacks would be considered 'coloreds' in South Africa for example.

It's been awhile since I've heard that term.  The Europeans I know used the term "half caste."  It really grates on my ears.  I have no idea how a "black" American would react to it coming from a white person with a funny accent.

'Colored' was a legal term under apartheid. Most US Blacks had they lived under the apartheid system would have Coloreds, not blacks.

[Wells]

Yes

nah

[pbrower2a]

As far as race and IQ are concerned I would post a couple of simple maps/graphs

Hard to take a test if you can't read:



oh and this map is similar too i'm sure it's a coincidence though and i really doubt there's any proven correlation between childhood malaria and lifetime educational achievement or anything

So some countries invest heavily in elementary education (where children typically learn to read) and some don't.  Not only is it hard to take any test if one can't read -- it is practically impossible to design a relevant IQ test for the illiterate. Poverty? It certainly does not help. As is often said in America -- if you want to know what a 'good' statistic is in America, then  look for anything at which Mississippi is unusually high or low -- and that is a statistic to avoid.

It's hard to see how malaria is a good proxy for intelligence; it is a good proxy for malnutrition. That would be enough to distinguish North Korea from South Korea.

If it is race -- Brazil has a high percentage of people of African origin, but Brazil is nearly average.

[Sic Semper Fascistis]

Short answer: no

Long answer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mismeasure_of_Man

[pbrower2a]

If there is a correlation between wealth and IQ then I think that further discredits IQ tests. No genuinely intelligent person wants to be wealthy.

Genuinely intelligent people don't need to be wealthy. They prefer to be upper-middle-class and are typically too busy doing something interesting to do conspicuous consumption.  

[Progressive Pessimist]

No. They are meaningless and prove nothing other than how good one is at taking an IQ test. They have no other practical application to what actually makes someone smart or talented.

[Beet]

The tests are meaningful, but at the same time not innate. Just like height and weight, mean intelligence has changed with history -- the difference due to nutrition and environment. And in the future, with genetic engineering, I believe that all properties of "race" or whatever will cease to be determinative. We are converging towards a race of intelligent, fit, long-lived superhuman people with pleasing aesthetics not perfectly mapped to any existing human "race" or nationality -- that will take 500 or 1,000 years.

[Izzyeviel]

President Trump has an iq of 657.




 No other president has had such a bigly iq you know.

[Yellowhammer]

They are relevant to an extent in demonstrating an approximate intelligence, but I would take them with a grain of salt; they are widely variable. I have taken 3 and they have a 20-point range.

[Kyle Rittenhouse is a Political Prisoner]

It's a fairly useful measure of intelligence. Not exceptionally predictive for individuals, but more useful in larger groups.