Do Atheists treat religion like Oldiesfreak does the Democrats? (and vice-versa)

[Wiggle Your Yummy Moist Preggers Cake Ben Shapiro]

You know, Oldiesfreak still thinks the Democratic Party (United States) is full of racists, and that its racist history keeps it from being valid, with his wrong beliefs regarding the Civil Rights Movement.


Anyway, I was thinking a few days ago: Don't Atheists treat Religion the same way? And do Religious people also do it?

[afleitch]

Evidenced by the arguments on here put by DemPGH, California Tony and myself; no. But I have to say atheists on here get a bit of a rough deal by some people thinking we're all emotionless Dawkinites.

[Free Speech Enjoyer]

Evidenced by the arguments on here put by DemPGH, California Tony and myself; no. But I have to say atheists on here get a bit of a rough deal by some people thinking we're all emotionless Dawkinites.

What do you think it is, philosophically speaking, that seems to put you at odds with Richard Dawkins?

[Tokugawa Sexgod Ieyasu]

Atheists are a heterogeneous group defined by the absence of something, so you really can't make this kind of generalization about them. You can't even make this kind of generalization about groups that actually have doctrines to share unless you really know what you're doing, so even less ones that really don't.

[afleitch]

Evidenced by the arguments on here put by DemPGH, California Tony and myself; no. But I have to say atheists on here get a bit of a rough deal by some people thinking we're all emotionless Dawkinites.

What do you think it is, philosophically speaking, that seems to put you at odds with Richard Dawkins?

What is it that, philosophically speaking, puts you at odds with Pat Robertson? You both share the same faith and same belief in Jesus do you not? Now I would not dream of equating you both; I understand the nuances of faith, politics and expression. I just wish I was given the same courtesy.

[Tokugawa Sexgod Ieyasu]

afleitch, you're far, far kinder, more respectful, and more self-aware than Richard Dawkins, among other things. I can't speak for other posters, but if I've been abrasive in discussions with you in the past--and I know I have--it's because it's my own tendency to be abrasive in debates about the subject matter, for which I apologize.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

If atheists treated religion like Oldiesfreak does the Democrats, they'd be claiming to have invented God in the first place and castigating religion for stealing the idea for their own nefarious purposes.

[afleitch]

afleitch, you're far, far kinder, more respectful, and more self-aware than Richard Dawkins, among other things. I can't speak for other posters, but if I've been abrasive in discussions with you in the past--and I know I have--it's because it's my own tendency to be abrasive in debates about the subject matter, for which I apologize.

I have to say I have felt like that at times. You're not really an offender but I appreciate taking time out to respond and offer an apology though it wasn't needed. I feel that for a Religion and Philosophy board there seems to be a reluctance to actually talk about religion or philosophy without a Christian tinge to it and with reference to a recent talk about adoptionism etc, a western and liberal Christian tinge at that. When god is talked about in positive or disparaging terms it is assumed by all sides to be the Christian or Abrahamic god which I think is something people should be careful not to assume. In the end, this particular slant stifles talk about other philosophies or different angles of faith and belief which don't seem to generate the same fervour or interest.

I don't think there's a need to be abrasive in these sorts of discussions. Religion or lack thereof is one of the least important things in the world.

[Tokugawa Sexgod Ieyasu]

I've been meaning to start some threads about Buddhism or various forms of animism, but for some reason I can never think of a good starting point. Would that hold any interest for you?

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

You know, Oldiesfreak still thinks the Democratic Party (United States) is full of racists, and that its racist history keeps it from being valid, with his wrong beliefs regarding the Civil Rights Movement.


Anyway, I was thinking a few days ago: Don't Atheists treat Religion the same way? And do Religious people also do it?

Religion being stupid, ignorant, and liable to incite hatred and violence is not in any way "history", sir. 

[Wiggle Your Yummy Moist Preggers Cake Ben Shapiro]

Why yes it is. Claiming that The Crusades/Godwin's Law is still a part of a belief is just plain Oldiesfreak logic. That just doesn't happen.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

Why yes it is. Claiming that The Crusades/Godwin's Law is still a part of a belief is just plain Oldiesfreak logic. That just doesn't happen.

That's a specific.  I was clearly talking about generalities.  Oh, so the Crusades are over?  Good job, Christianity, want a cookie?  You still give me a million reasons to despise the overall institution. 

[Wiggle Your Yummy Moist Preggers Cake Ben Shapiro]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

That's a specific.  I was clearly talking about generalities.  Oh, so the Civil Rights Movement is over?  Good job, Democratic Party, want a cookie?  You still give me a million reasons to despise the overall institution. 
[/quote]

[DC Al Fine]

Why yes it is. Claiming that The Crusades/Godwin's Law is still a part of a belief is just plain Oldiesfreak logic. That just doesn't happen.

That's a specific.  I was clearly talking about generalities.  Oh, so the Crusades are over?  Good job, Christianity, want a cookie?  You still give me a million reasons to despise the overall institution. 

Oh not that tired old meme again.

[RI]

This is not something that is unique to atheism (or rather more aptly the anti-theism movement), but something that almost any group hostile toward another is often guilty of. It's propaganda, nothing more, nothing less.

[Mehmentum]

Why yes it is. Claiming that The Crusades/Godwin's Law is still a part of a belief is just plain Oldiesfreak logic. That just doesn't happen.

That's a specific.  I was clearly talking about generalities.  Oh, so the Civil Rights Movements are over?  Good job, Democratic Party, want a cookie?  You still give me a million reasons to despise the overall institution. 

The analagoy doesn't work.

In this situation (Comparing Christianity to the Democratic party), the Crusades, witch hunts, etc are equivelent to slavery and the persecution of blacks championed by the Democrats following the Civil War. 

Some of the complaints that atheists have with what Christianity is doing today include promoting creationism in schools, discouraging the use of contraceptives etc.  What is the Democratic party doing now that African Americans should dislike them for?  What are the equivelents to banning same sex marriage and the intelligent design movement  that the Democratic party is doing to African Americans right now? 

[RI]

Some of the complaints that atheists have with what Christianity is doing today include promoting creationism in schools, discouraging the use of contraceptives etc.

Only a very small minority of Christians (generally Southern Baptists and Pentecostals) advocate for teaching creationism in public schools, and there hasn't been much movement on that front in quite a while. As for contraceptive use, I'd say Christianity is pretty 50-50 on that; mainliners, Mormons, Adventists, etc. accept artificial contraceptives, and most Catholics do too, though the church does not.

[Mehmentum]

Some of the complaints that atheists have with what Christianity is doing today include promoting creationism in schools, discouraging the use of contraceptives etc.

Only a very small minority of Christians (generally Southern Baptists and Pentecostals) advocate for teaching creationism in public schools, and there hasn't been much movement on that front in quite a while. As for contraceptive use, I'd say Christianity is pretty 50-50 on that; mainliners, Mormons, Adventists, etc. accept artificial contraceptives, and most Catholics do too, though the church does not.

I couldn't find much polling on teaching creationism in schools, but a Pew Poll in 2005 found that 38% favored teaching Creationism instead of evolution public schools (compared to 49% opposed).  A plurality (46%) of white protestants favored this, while 31% of white catholics favored it.

http://www.people-press.org/2005/08/30/religion-a-strength-and-weakness-for-both-parties/

[RI]

Some of the complaints that atheists have with what Christianity is doing today include promoting creationism in schools, discouraging the use of contraceptives etc.

Only a very small minority of Christians (generally Southern Baptists and Pentecostals) advocate for teaching creationism in public schools, and there hasn't been much movement on that front in quite a while. As for contraceptive use, I'd say Christianity is pretty 50-50 on that; mainliners, Mormons, Adventists, etc. accept artificial contraceptives, and most Catholics do too, though the church does not.

I couldn't find much polling on teaching creationism in schools, but a Pew Poll in 2005 found that 38% favored teaching Creationism instead of evolution public schools (compared to 49% opposed).  A plurality (46%) of white protestants favored this, while 31% of white catholics favored it.

http://www.people-press.org/2005/08/30/religion-a-strength-and-weakness-for-both-parties/

I imagine that number is somewhat lower eight years later, but between 25-35% is probably fair. Perhaps it's wrong to say a very small minority support it, but the number is certainly a minority.

[King]

Highly religious people enjoy tying atheism to Stalin more than atheists talk about the Crusades, though some atheists do like to bring up the crusades far too much.  Most atheist hatred of religion is still based on present day problems.

[Wiggle Your Yummy Moist Preggers Cake Ben Shapiro]

Highly religious people enjoy tying atheism to Stalin more than atheists talk about the Crusades, though some atheists do like to bring up the crusades far too much.  Most atheist hatred of religion is still based on present day problems.

I was just about to bring that up.

And yes, that is true, lining atheism to Stalinism.

[John Dibble]

Highly religious people enjoy tying atheism to Stalin more than atheists talk about the Crusades, though some atheists do like to bring up the crusades far too much.  Most atheist hatred of religion is still based on present day problems.

I was just about to bring that up.

And yes, that is true, lining atheism to Stalinism.

Don't forget Hitler and the Nazis - I've lost count of how many times I've seen atheists blamed for that.

[falling apart like the ashes of American flags]

Highly religious people enjoy tying atheism to Stalin more than atheists talk about the Crusades, though some atheists do like to bring up the crusades far too much.  Most atheist hatred of religion is still based on present day problems.

I was just about to bring that up.

And yes, that is true, lining atheism to Stalinism.

Don't forget Hitler and the Nazis - I've lost count of how many times I've seen atheists blamed for that.

Just as frequently people have accused Hitler of being a Christian, though this is objectively false and it's quite clear from his personal writings he was anti-Christian. Even more amusing is people who claim Mussolini was a Christian, considering he was a not all that vocal but still open atheist.

[afleitch]

Highly religious people enjoy tying atheism to Stalin more than atheists talk about the Crusades, though some atheists do like to bring up the crusades far too much.  Most atheist hatred of religion is still based on present day problems.

I was just about to bring that up.

And yes, that is true, lining atheism to Stalinism.

Don't forget Hitler and the Nazis - I've lost count of how many times I've seen atheists blamed for that.

Just as frequently people have accused Hitler of being a Christian, though this is objectively false and it's quite clear from his personal writings he was anti-Christian. Even more amusing is people who claim Mussolini was a Christian, considering he was a not all that vocal but still open atheist.

Hitler was nominally a Christian (he was baptised Catholic); not a very nice Christian (to put it mildly) nor was it a defining philosophy for him in any way. However to say that it is ‘quite clear from his personal writings that he was not a Christian’ is demonstratably false. He in fact demonstrated his faith many many times in his speeches throughout his entire political career. He may have been making twisted appeals to Providence and warped the faith to suit him as indeed he did, but there is no evidence to suggest he wasn't Christian. Other's may disagree, but he never said himself that he wasn't a Christian.

“I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator…by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.” – Mein Kampf

“My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before in the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.... When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom to-day this poor people is plundered and exploited.” – 12 April 1922.

“We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.” – 24 October 1933

“In this world him who does not abandon himself the Almighty will not desert. Him who helps himself will the Almighty always also help; He will show him the way by which he can gain his rights, his freedom, and therefore his future.” - 20 March 1936

Even to the end…

“God the Almighty has made our nation. By defending its existence we are defending His work...Only He can relieve me of this duty Who called me to it. It was in the hand of Providence to snuff me out by the bomb that exploded only one and a half meters from me on July 20, and thus to terminate my life's work. That the Almighty protected me on that day I consider a renewed affirmation of the task entrusted to me....” 30 January 1945

[Oldiesfreak1854]

To paraphrase Mehmentum...

Oh, so the Crusades are civil rights movement is over?  Good job, Christianity Democrats, want a cookie?  You still give me a million more reasons to despise the overall institution.  

And as for Obamanation's statement, why would Republicans and Democrats just magically switch sides on civil rights?  The Democratic party's welfare state policies that create dependency for minorities is the antithesis of civil rights, if anything.