SENATE BILL: End the Global War on Drugs Resolution (Passed)

[Sbane]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Guys, please read. That is all I ask.

Decriminalized is defined as "cease by legislation to treat (something) as illegal."  I can read just fine; I strongly believe that the possession and use of all forms of cocaine should be illegal.

And what consequence will that hold for users?

Decriminalization is the middle step between it being illegal and legal. We don't have any stores that sell cocaine, unlike Marijuana which is completely legal and there are likely stores in Atlasia selling it. Decriminalization is the status of Marijuana in many states. It means that users are not jailed for using it, but it is not available in stores and dealers are still prosecuted. That is the status of hard drugs in Atlasia.

And for your reference, these are the states that have decriminalized Marijuana. Are you seriously arguing these states have legalized it? Only Washington and Colorado have done so.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decriminalization_of_non-medical_cannabis_in_the_United_States

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

You mean the statement that cocaine is an incredibly harmful drug that should be illegal?  Yes, how insane of us

Alcohol is incredibly harmful.

Indeed! No other substance is as deeply implicated in the social problems that our country faces. I'd like to see Senators X and Ben explain why they believe that we shouldn't also re-instate Prohibition. This is a sincere request: The arguments that you two have put forward seem to suggest that a ban on alcohol would be just as effective and desirable as a ban on other substances that can be harmful.

Prohibition of alcohol would never work because most cultures ultimately view drinking as a harmless vice, if that, regardless of whether it actually is (like gambling).  No one would take such a ban seriously.  Senator Nix, I respectfully disagree with your implication that alcohol is more directly dangerous than cocaine or methamphetamine.  Is alcohol dangerous when abused?  Sure, but it can also be drunken safely (as long as it is not to excess).  There is no safe use for drugs like cocaine and there never will be.  For that reason most cultures rightly view hard drugs not as a harmless vice, but as a deadly menace that cannot be tolerated.  And that is part of why most Americans do take the RL laws against hard drug use seriously (compared to laws against something like marijuana, which is increasingly being viewed as a harmless vice, if that).  Unless you are arguing that most Atlasians don't really see anything wrong with using cocaine, methamphetamine, etc then re-criminalization would be more effective than decriminalization. 

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Guys, please read. That is all I ask.

Decriminalized is defined as "cease by legislation to treat (something) as illegal."  I can read just fine; I strongly believe that the possession and use of all forms of cocaine should be illegal.

And what consequence will that hold for users?

Decriminalization is the middle step between it being illegal and legal. We don't have any stores that sell cocaine, unlike Marijuana which is completely legal and there are likely stores in Atlasia selling it. Decriminalization is the status of Marijuana in many states. It means that users are not jailed for using it, but it is not available in stores and dealers are still prosecuted. That is the status of hard drugs in Atlasia.

And for your reference, these are the states that have decriminalized Marijuana. Are you seriously arguing these states have legalized it? Only Washington and Colorado have done so.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decriminalization_of_non-medical_cannabis_in_the_United_States

I think hard drug use should be criminalized (particularly the use of any form of methamphetamine, heroin, or cocaine).  I hope this clears up any semantic concerns (I don't mean to sound harsh, but I feel like I've explained this a few times, I understand the status quo for most hard drugs in Atlasia is decriminalization, I oppose that status quo).  Drugs like cocaine, methamphetamine, heroin, are basically evil things with no redeeming value whatsoever.  I would argue that we are failing The People by not doing everything in our power to prevent their use.  If I simply thought society should give up on users and not bother trying to help them overcome their addiction, how much easier (and politically expedient) would it be to simply ignore the issue and let them keep destroying their lives and often those of the people around them?  I fully support focusing on rehabilitation, but the lack of real penalties conveys the message that our society does not consider using hard drugs to be dangerous or wrong.  And I simply do not agree with that.  In this case, decriminalization is a half-measure when a full-measure (a combination of criminalization and rehabilitation) is necessary.

[Sbane]

What sort of penalties would you impose?

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

What sort of penalties would you impose?

The Rehabilitation and Reasonable Penalties Act of 2013, which I introduced this morning, covers that pretty throughly.  I'd be happy to hear your thoughts on it, Senator.

[Sbane]

What sort of penalties would you impose?

The Rehabilitation and Reasonable Penalties Act of 2013, which I introduced this morning, covers that pretty throughly.  I'd be happy to hear your thoughts on it, Senator.

I have a huge problem with the lack of definition of intent to sell. I am afraid there will be a correlation between being accused of having intent to sell and melanin content. Just like in real life....

I could only support this for things like meth and opiates, perhaps cocaine. I don't think I can extend this to MDMA, hallucinogens, khat, HGH, Ephedrine, synthetic cannabinoids or Marinol (!!!!). Things like MDMA and LSD should actually be legalized so that they can be manufactured in proper laboratories into pure products.

Synthetic cannabinoids and Marinol should actually be legalized immediately. I will submit a bill doing so immediately.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Personally, I like the merits of X's bill, but I agree with Sbane that it can be improved.  I think we should require police to provide evidence that someone is intending to sell a drug.  X and I have been talking privately about how we can best prevent police brutality and unlawful arrests.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

What sort of penalties would you impose?

The Rehabilitation and Reasonable Penalties Act of 2013, which I introduced this morning, covers that pretty throughly.  I'd be happy to hear your thoughts on it, Senator.

I have a huge problem with the lack of definition of intent to sell. I am afraid there will be a correlation between being accused of having intent to sell and melanin content. Just like in real life....

I could only support this for things like meth and opiates, perhaps cocaine. I don't think I can extend this to MDMA, hallucinogens, khat, HGH, Ephedrine, synthetic cannabinoids or Marinol (!!!!). Things like MDMA and LSD should actually be legalized so that they can be manufactured in proper laboratories into pure products.

Synthetic cannabinoids and Marinol should actually be legalized immediately. I will submit a bill doing so immediately.

I would be happy to include an amendment expanding on the definition of intent to sell (and the police should have to prove this).  Your concerns about types of drugs are precisely why I wanted to have it apply to drugs that are or have been criminalized/made illegal (however we want to say it).  That way, we can still determine which drugs it applies to.  In other words, we pass the bill (or an amended version of it).  That way, we can separate it from the individual debates over whether various drugs should be re-criminalized.  Thanks for keeping an open-mind

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Personally, I like the merits of X's bill, but I agree with Sbane that it can be improved.  I think we should require police to provide evidence that someone is intending to sell a drug.  X and I have been talking privately about how we can best prevent police brutality and unlawful arrests.

Police already have to provide evidence before you can be arrested on drug charges. You can't just be arrested and searched for no reason or if the police officer simply "suspects it" and cannot provide more, like undercover evidence or anonymous tips. Even if you are, whatever evidence they gather against you will be thrown out if it is an illegal arrest. I don't know what the constitution says in Atlasia, but in the US, we do have 5th and 14th amendment protections.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Personally, I like the merits of X's bill, but I agree with Sbane that it can be improved.  I think we should require police to provide evidence that someone is intending to sell a drug.  X and I have been talking privately about how we can best prevent police brutality and unlawful arrests.

Police already have to provide evidence before you can be arrested on drug charges. You can't just be arrested and searched for no reason or if the police officer simply "suspects it" and cannot provide more, like undercover evidence or anonymous tips. Even if you are, whatever evidence they gather against you will be thrown out if it is an illegal arrest. I don't know what the constitution says in Atlasia, but in the US, we do have 5th and 14th amendment protections.

Very good, then.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Police already have to provide evidence before you can be arrested on drug charges. You can't just be arrested and searched for no reason or if the police officer simply "suspects it" and cannot provide more, like undercover evidence or anonymous tips. Even if you are, whatever evidence they gather against you will be thrown out if it is an illegal arrest. I don't know what the constitution says in Atlasia, but in the US, we do have 5th and 14th amendment protections.

Did you just finish an exam in con law/criminal law? 

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Police already have to provide evidence before you can be arrested on drug charges. You can't just be arrested and searched for no reason or if the police officer simply "suspects it" and cannot provide more, like undercover evidence or anonymous tips. Even if you are, whatever evidence they gather against you will be thrown out if it is an illegal arrest. I don't know what the constitution says in Atlasia, but in the US, we do have 5th and 14th amendment protections.

Did you just finish an exam in con law/criminal law? 

I had con law last Tuesday and criminal procedure on Thursday of next week. Currently, I am studying for Partnerships and Corporations.

[Sbane]

Personally, I like the merits of X's bill, but I agree with Sbane that it can be improved.  I think we should require police to provide evidence that someone is intending to sell a drug.  X and I have been talking privately about how we can best prevent police brutality and unlawful arrests.

Police already have to provide evidence before you can be arrested on drug charges. You can't just be arrested and searched for no reason or if the police officer simply "suspects it" and cannot provide more, like undercover evidence or anonymous tips. Even if you are, whatever evidence they gather against you will be thrown out if it is an illegal arrest. I don't know what the constitution says in Atlasia, but in the US, we do have 5th and 14th amendment protections.

What I am concerned about is how "intent to sell" will be enforced.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Personally, I like the merits of X's bill, but I agree with Sbane that it can be improved.  I think we should require police to provide evidence that someone is intending to sell a drug.  X and I have been talking privately about how we can best prevent police brutality and unlawful arrests.

Police already have to provide evidence before you can be arrested on drug charges. You can't just be arrested and searched for no reason or if the police officer simply "suspects it" and cannot provide more, like undercover evidence or anonymous tips. Even if you are, whatever evidence they gather against you will be thrown out if it is an illegal arrest. I don't know what the constitution says in Atlasia, but in the US, we do have 5th and 14th amendment protections.

What I am concerned about is how "intent to sell" will be enforced.

Each case is left up to an independent magistrate. The officer will call it in and they decide how strong the evidence is against that individual, among other things, like the cop's track record. It would be difficult to legislate something like this given the case-by-case manner in which these arrests are evaluated. Normally, if there is police abuse, it is caught by the courts before that individual is convicted. There are exceptions, but those are obviously rare. You just have to trust the system.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Hey Duke, did you declare that last amendment as adopted in here, yet?

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Hey Duke, did you declare that last amendment as adopted in here, yet?

Amendment 54:52 has been adopted.

[Napoleon]

Alcohol is deadlier than cocaine and it is definitely more dangerous, which is easily proven with statistical evidence I will be providing when I get a chance.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Alcohol is deadlier than cocaine and it is definitely more dangerous, which is easily proven with statistical evidence I will be providing when I get a chance.

This is simply an objectively false statement.

[Napoleon]

Alcohol is deadlier than cocaine and it is definitely more dangerous, which is easily proven with statistical evidence I will be providing when I get a chance.

This is simply an objectively false statement.

Prove it.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

You're the one who made the statement, Nappy.  The burden is on you.

Again, I find it hard to believe that people are minimizing the danger of cocaine.  Good Lord people.

[Napoleon]

A photo from an anti-drug website is not sufficient scientific evidence to prove a point. And the burden is not on me, I am not trying to change our drug policies without providing a logical basis to do so. And if you read your own "evidence" it specifies "chronic use". Chronic use of alcohol is far more pravapent and socially damaging.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

http://www.bettyfordcenter.org/recovery/featured/is-alcohol-deadlier-than-drugs.php

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

http://www.bettyfordcenter.org/recovery/featured/is-alcohol-deadlier-than-drugs.php

However, alcohol can be used safely, cocaine cannot.

[Napoleon]

http://www.bettyfordcenter.org/recovery/featured/is-alcohol-deadlier-than-drugs.php

However, alcohol can be used safely, cocaine cannot.

Prove that.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Your chart even says "too much alcohol".  Good Lord.