Margaret Thatcher dies at 87

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I suppose the Thatchavez thing works with oil money and all that as well. Never forget that the Thatcher government wasted the North Sea windfall on free tax cuts.

though how did Thatcher lack respect for checks and balances?

...

Are you serious?

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Think he's referring to the dismantling of large sections of local government and the castration of the rest of it. Which, of course, was done purely because it represented an alternative source of political power to the one that she occupied.

[You kip if you want to...]

Really? They was two democratic elected politician, who both favoured their vote segment over the good of the country and both lacked any respect for informal check and balances and was willing to change the election structures to weaken their opponents. Chavec was nothing but a left wing version of Thatcher, no matter how much his supporters would hate to hear it.

I can understand why you would say they 'both favoured their vote segment', though how did Thatcher lack respect for checks and balances? She had a clear majority in every Parliament under her tenure. Also, how did she change the 'election structures'? It's not like the electoral system changed at all, which, her left wing opponents were badgering on about for a good while after 1983. PR and all that jazz.

Yeah, to be fair, the British constitution doesn't really give us a system of checks and balances to be respected in the first place. We have checks and balances in-name-only.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Actually there are informal understandings about the way power should and should not be used. No government respects these fuzzy boundaries and general traditions entirely (obviously), but the Thatcher government... oh dear.

And this is actually one reason why the Tory base love her so.

[Supersonic]

I suppose the Thatchavez thing works with oil money and all that as well. Never forget that the Thatcher government wasted the North Sea windfall on free tax cuts.

though how did Thatcher lack respect for checks and balances?

...

Are you serious?

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Think he's referring to the dismantling of large sections of local government and the castration of the rest of it. Which, of course, was done purely because it represented an alternative source of political power to the one that she occupied.

To the point on checks and balances I would agree with forward '12 to an extent.

On local government, it was in the Conservative manifesto of '83 to abolish the GLC and Metropolitan Councils. Once Thatcher got back in, she did as such. It wasn't as if this was a spontaneous reaction. Also, she didn't change the electoral structure regarding General Elections.

Yeah, to be fair, the British constitution doesn't really give us a system of checks and balances to be respected in the first place. We have checks and balances in-name-only.

True. I agree.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

To the point on checks and balances I would agree with forward '12 to an extent.

You are both wrong.

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What has that got to do with the price of coal?

[BluegrassBlueVote]

I will be moderating this thread HEAVILY. Be warned.

Thank You, Alfleitch. Thank you.

I cried today. That is all I can say. I cried. I am devastated by the loss of the woman I admired more than any other.

How is this even possible for an American? How old are you?

[Supersonic]

To the point on checks and balances I would agree with forward '12 to an extent.

You are both wrong.

k

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What has that got to do with the price of coal?

I was saying that it was in the Conservative manifesto to alter local government, so the changes at least had a mandate behind them?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I was saying that it was in the Conservative manifesto to alter local government, so the changes at least had a mandate behind them?

Again, what has that got to do with the price of North Sea oil? No one is accusing her of being a dictator.

[MaxQue]

To the point on checks and balances I would agree with forward '12 to an extent.

You are both wrong.

k

You must be logged in to read this quote.

What has that got to do with the price of coal?

I was saying that it was in the Conservative manifesto to alter local government, so the changes at least had a mandate behind them?

So, if Chavez announced he would do controversial things, it would be okay because he announced it?

That's a severe mischaracterization of democracy.

[Supersonic]

To the point on checks and balances I would agree with forward '12 to an extent.

You are both wrong.

k

You must be logged in to read this quote.

What has that got to do with the price of coal?

I was saying that it was in the Conservative manifesto to alter local government, so the changes at least had a mandate behind them?

So, if Chavez announced he would do controversial things, it would be okay because he announced it?

That's a severe mischaracterization of democracy.

How? It would depend if these 'controversial things' had a popular mandate behind it of course, if they did, what's the problem? That is democracy.

[patrick1]

A woman who had a lot more blood on her hands than the criminal muhhrderers.

[You kip if you want to...]

Actually there are informal understandings about the way power should and should not be used. No government respects these fuzzy boundaries and general traditions entirely (obviously), but the Thatcher government... oh dear.

And this is actually one reason why the Tory base love her so.

That's basically what I meant. Informal understandings are exactly that, informal.

Heck, one of the greatest things Labour did was begin to modernise and codify some of the customs that Thatcher so loved to abuse. Human Rights Act, Freedom of Information, etc.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

I will be moderating this thread HEAVILY. Be warned.

Thank You, Alfleitch. Thank you.

I cried today. That is all I can say. I cried. I am devastated by the loss of the woman I admired more than any other.

How is this even possible for an American? How old are you?

When you admire someone, and view them as an inspiration of what leadership is, is it not a natural reaction?

[Brittain33]

Republicans announced they were going to institute voter ID that excluded students, non-drivers, etc before an election to reduce Dem turnout, it still makes it undemocratic when they do if.

[Mr. Illini]

R.I.P. to the lady who saved Britain. She was a crusader for the market and a politician who stood on principle until the end. She was right on so many things, especially UK involvement in the EU and de-regulation curing the UK economy. She will be missed, but her legacy of freedom and rigid principle will carry on for years.

[BluegrassBlueVote]

I will be moderating this thread HEAVILY. Be warned.

Thank You, Alfleitch. Thank you.

I cried today. That is all I can say. I cried. I am devastated by the loss of the woman I admired more than any other.

How is this even possible for an American? How old are you?

When you admire someone, and view them as an inspiration of what leadership is, is it not a natural reaction?

It's a woman you've only read about from a different continent. I guess I just can't relate that to anything.

[Blue3]

Many people have never met Gandhi or Hitler or Jesus, but still have strong emotional reactions to them.

[BluegrassBlueVote]

I would concede that point if those were suitable comparisons.

[Blue3]

I would concede that point if those were suitable comparisons.

Look at how basically every foreigner has a strong opinion of American presidents, one way or the other. Or how Americans have a strong opinion of Putin, Fidel Castro, and the Kim's. Or just about anyone having a strong opinion of the Popes.

[BluegrassBlueVote]

My point was centered around ChairmanSanchez (assumedly) not being old enough to observe any of Thatcher's premiership firsthand as much as it was his nationality. I doubt any Brits from this generation cry when watching the clip of JFK's head exploding.

This is a silly thing to argue about either way, as they're another man's emotions, not mine. I just couldn't help but sense the embellishment.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I think we should be a little kinder... only because I'm a weirdo who admits an emotional attachment to the Kennedys...

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

Who will rise up to fill these shoes in the Western world? Will we see another like the Iron Lady, The Gipper or John Paul II?  Not exactly but we may see those rise up like them in spirit.

A sad day for the friends of freedom and human dignity.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

JCL fawning over Thatcher.... considering his obsessions is kind of interesting.

[Hnv1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlkXQm7tSCY

Sorry for the 87 year old lady who died, Thatcher the public figure deserves no condolences

[afleitch]

I'm afraid that those who 'killed' coal in Britain are still alive. Who used coal in 1984? Industry generally didn't, trains didn't, ships didn't and increasingly power stations, businesses and homes didn't need it. Why? Because Britain was plugged in to oil and gas ten years before. Coal production (translated into the power of the energy of a million tonnes of oil) halved from 1970 to 1984. Gas production went from almost nothing, trebling by 1984 and overtaking coal in the early 1990's. And what did the governments of the 1970's do? Get homes plugged into oil and gas. Britain had it's central heating boom partly funded by central and local government grants hooking up working class homes to central heating for the first time. And what fired this? Not coal. Even if the functional domestic coal had been given a respite, those wringing their hands over the strike today would have been down their necks by the end of the 1980's and the beginning of the green movement.