1968: Humphrey wins...
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  1968: Humphrey wins...
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Undecided Voter in the Midwest
Ghost of Tilden
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« on: March 17, 2013, 10:45:05 PM »

Suppose Humphrey's late surge was just a little stronger in 1968 and he managed to beat Nixon.
What happens with Vietnam and the economy? Does Humphrey win re-election in '72? And what does the GOP do to regroup after Nixon's defeat?

Maps, explanations, alternate histories etc. would be appreciated.

(Or you could just point me to a thread in which you had this discussion before. Also, if this is in the wrong subfolder please move it, thanks.)
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badgate
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« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2013, 11:25:17 PM »

Maybe we get Reagan or H. W. Bush early
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2013, 11:30:32 PM »
« Edited: March 18, 2013, 12:12:36 AM by Mr. Morden »

Maybe we get Reagan or H. W. Bush early

Wouldn't Bush be a nobody if Nixon hadn't made him Ambassador to the UN, and if he hadn't gotten all those subsequent appointments in both the Nixon and Ford administrations?  Seems like Dole would be more likely than Bush for a presidential ticket at some point, if there was no Nixon administration.
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2013, 01:59:34 AM »

Humphrey was inclined to end the Vietnam War as quickly as possible and likely would've begun withdrawal much sooner than Nixon did. What happens for Humphrey after will all depend on how well he can bridge the gap of voter dissatisfaction. On one hand, Humphrey would want to pour money into social programs to combat crime and poverty. He likely would've pushed for further civil rights, probably before the south was ready for it. He would've been very active as President, probably too active. Spending could easily have gotten out of control, but then, if inflation and unemployment stayed low, he could've gotten through it. He would need to reduce crime. One thing we know is, there would be no Watergate-esque style scandal with a President Humphrey.

Humphrey might have problems in foreign policy based on his loose lips, but if he ended Vietnam sooner, he might get a grace period.

I could see Reagan or Ford being his likely 1972 opponent.
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lincolnwall
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« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2013, 12:15:50 AM »

I could see him gaining strong approval ratings for promising to scale down and end the Viet Nam war, but then suffer a bit when it takes longer than he had hoped to do so. He would still have strong support from the liberal base, including the youth, most Dems and some of the more liberal Reps.

Come '72 he would still have a slim chance of beating Ford or Dole. But a younger Reagan would probably clinch the nomination and give Humphrey a real run for his money, attacking him on his sluggish winding down of Viet Nam and tapping into the nation's Democratic fatigue (at this point they had won every election since 1932 except '52 and '56 – that's 8/10). Being the "change" candidate, Reagan/Dole would defeat Humphrey/Muskie by a narrow PV margin but a comfortable one in the EC, probably garnering in excess of 350 EVs.

We get the energy crisis and recession early in Reagan's term, which initially puts his approval in the lower 50s. But the situation seems to be improving (superficially) by late '75, and during his re-election campaign the administration spins the economy numbers to mask the reality – stagflation, which IRL Carter got blamed for. Reagan is charismatic, funny and looks good on the economy. The Dems realize the election is theirs to lose, so most of the better candidates bide their time until 1980. There is no Carter because there is no Watergate and no Ford, so they eventually nominate Jerry Brown. Reagan easily defeats him, with a PV margin of 4-5m and in the low 400s in the EC.

However, with the Soviet Union still rising in power, a greater proportion of moderates and liberals in the GOP, and a split congress (I'm guessing R Senate and D House), Reagan's conservatism is not as extreme and he does not become such a legendary figure within the GOP.

The Republican primary in '80 is between Dole, HW Bush, John B. Anderson and Pat Robertson. The race narrows down to Dole and Anderson, but Dole manages to trump up his experience and soon racks up a large delegate lead. Anderson predictably drops out and continues to run as an independent. meanwhile, the Democratic primary consists of Ted Kennedy, Walter Mondale, Lloyd Bentsen, Sargent Shriver and Scoop Jackson. Jerry Brown declines to run again. Kennedy is of course the heavy frontrunner throughout, and though some minor candidates get "favorite son" bumps in their respective home states, Kennedy proves unstoppable and easily wins the nomination.

Reagan's second term was marred by stagflation, unemployment, and the ever-growing Soviet threat, which Reagan was not able to deal with as effectively as IRL. Although there is no hostage crisis, the GOP's credibility is damaged and Kennedy shows a small lead in the polls throughout election season, and he destroys Dole in the debates. Dole struggles with his image, and distances himself from Reagan due to the poor economy. Anderson is largely overlooked, and draws a few votes from both major parties, but not enough to sway the election in either direction. Kennedy/Bentsen soundly defeat Dole/Bush by an EC margin of nearly 300 EVs and a PV margin of about 5m. Anderson receives just over 2m votes and no EVs.


This is my first attempt at putting an alt history in writing, so if anyone is interested feel free to give feedback/criticisms/suggestions, or keep going with it! Smiley

Also, I would post maps but I don't have enough forum posts yet.
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Peter the Lefty
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« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2013, 06:53:07 PM »

      Humphrey ends the Vietnam War and continues to pursue the Great Society.  He combats poverty with more aggression, determination, and success than Johnson.  The popularity boost he gets from ending the Vietnam war allows him to build on already-existing Democratic majorities in the House and Senate in the 1970 midterms.  The US essentially becomes a European-style social democracy, with anti-poverty programs doing tremendous good. 
      The Republicans nominate California Governor Ronald Reagan for President in 1972.  He picks House Minority Leader Gerald Ford as his running mate.  12 years of Democratic incumbency and rising inflation are starting to take their toll on Humphrey, but his popularity as president and Reagan's fierce brand of conservatism allow the Humphrey/Muskie ticket to win by a larger margin than in 1968. 
      His second term sees the creation of a single-taxpayer universal health care program, though he starts to become plagued by rising inflation levels.  He deals with it as well as anyone could, but it becomes too much to bear.  In 1976, the Republicans nominate House Minority Leader Gerald Ford after the front-runner, Nelson Rockefeller, declines to run on health grounds.  Ford picks Illinois representative Phil Crane as his running mate.  The Democrats democratically (thanks to the McGovern-Fraser commission) nominate Vice-President Muskie for President.  Muskie chooses Texas Senator Lloyd Bentsen as his running-mate in an attempt to sure up moderate support. 

Next bit coming soon....
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badgate
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« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2013, 07:38:55 PM »

Maybe we get Reagan or H. W. Bush early

Wouldn't Bush be a nobody if Nixon hadn't made him Ambassador to the UN, and if he hadn't gotten all those subsequent appointments in both the Nixon and Ford administrations?  Seems like Dole would be more likely than Bush for a presidential ticket at some point, if there was no Nixon administration.


That is a good point. Perhaps if he hadn't been appointed Ambassador to the UN he would've run for office in New England (I forget which state he's from) or Texas, but there's really no telling in that scenario whether he'd have been in a position to run for Prez in '80
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2013, 12:58:58 AM »

Maybe we get Reagan or H. W. Bush early

Wouldn't Bush be a nobody if Nixon hadn't made him Ambassador to the UN, and if he hadn't gotten all those subsequent appointments in both the Nixon and Ford administrations?  Seems like Dole would be more likely than Bush for a presidential ticket at some point, if there was no Nixon administration.


That is a good point. Perhaps if he hadn't been appointed Ambassador to the UN he would've run for office in New England (I forget which state he's from) or Texas, but there's really no telling in that scenario whether he'd have been in a position to run for Prez in '80

Bush had already served as a member of Congress, representing a district in Texas in the 1960s.  But (IRL) Nixon convinced him to run for a Senate seat in 1970, a race which he lost.  Nixon then appointed him as Ambassador to the UN, and the rest is history.

If there'd been no President Nixon, then it's possible that Bush would never have run for Senate.  He might have stayed in the House and built up seniority there, but it's not obvious that he would have become prominent enough within the House to end up on a national ticket.  Most members of Congress don't get that far.

Of course, it's also possible that he still would have run for that Senate seat and lost, but then gone back to the business world and faded into obscurity.
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