Why are churches such fortresses of segregation?

[memphis]

At least where I live, most public spaces have a decent degree of racial integration. Go to the mall, for instance, and you'll see many white shoppers and many black shoppers. And maybe a few Asians and Hispanics. We don't have many of them in Memphis. Go to most workplaces and you'll find the same. While there are plenty of "ghetto" public schools that are approaching 100% black, there are also many that have a reasonable racial balance. There are no >80% white public high schools anywhere in Shelby County. So, what gives with churches? Nearly all of them are overwhelmingly one race and are easily identifiable as such, frequently just from the denomination. While I have no suggestions as to how to remedy this situation, I strongly believe that this is not a healthy arrangement for either the churches, the congregations, or for society.

[TJ in Oregon]

A lot of denominations were segregated from the start in the US and segregated within each denomination. Sometimes there are doctrinal differences that maintain segregation, usually when the two races largely do not belong to the same denomination. Sometimes it boils down to people staying in the church they were raised or if they join a new one, joining one they feel "comfortable" in socially, which perpetuates the situation.

Interestingly this also applies to some degree to European ethnicity where relevant too when European immigrants built communities around their churches and the church retained some ethnic identity. If you are in a rust belt city like Cleveland there are some Catholic Churches that are Italian or Irish or Hungarian or Polish, etc.

[falling apart like the ashes of American flags]

That's sort of obvious in the south. It's not as big up here, we have black churches yes but as TJ noted mostly from denominations that Midwestern whites aren't likely to belong here. Although minorities here aren't so prone against joining the white denominations, we have black Lutheran churches and even a notable number of Hispanic Lutherans.

[memphis]

That's sort of obvious in the south. It's not as big up here, we have black churches yes but as TJ noted mostly from denominations that Midwestern whites aren't likely to belong here. Although minorities here aren't so prone against joining the white denominations, we have black Lutheran churches and even a notable number of Hispanic Lutherans.

Churches in MN are integrated? I find that very hard to believe, especially as there are so few blacks in the state in the first place.

[falling apart like the ashes of American flags]

That's sort of obvious in the south. It's not as big up here, we have black churches yes but as TJ noted mostly from denominations that Midwestern whites aren't likely to belong here. Although minorities here aren't so prone against joining the white denominations, we have black Lutheran churches and even a notable number of Hispanic Lutherans.

Churches in MN are integrated? I find that very hard to believe, especially as there are so few blacks in the state in the first place.

Churches in the part of the state that has blacks are. The ELCA actually keeps good statistics on membership for churches you can look up here: http://www.elca.org/ELCA/Search/Find-a-Congregation.aspx Check out the racial makeup of this one: http://www.elca.org/ELCA/Search/Find-a-Congregation.aspx#&&congrno=pSzOV4E5MTOTSmkCG8XeNXoZjHZ087%2b9pnNIig%3d%3d (click on "Full Trend Report For This Congregation") Here's a mixed White/Hispanic one: http://www.elca.org/ELCA/Search/Find-a-Congregation.aspx#&&congrno=4RbMCDzGFh8IYbDJ5dAteRQ3vTee7uk37jDnIQ%3d%3d

You know I never bothered to look up if heavily black Lutheran churches exist in places like Detroit. Should now.

The Vineyard one I go to is about 75% white, but the rest is actually a pretty even mix between black, Hispanic and Asian.

EDIT: Yes, there are black Lutheran churches in Detroit. Also found one that's about 50/50. And for the record, here's a (rather small) integrated one in Memphis: http://www.elca.org/ELCA/Search/Find-a-Congregation.aspx#&&congrno=QJOb3dibtGDx69ddVJK4tLKk6t2sWpeKSne8kw%3d%3d

[dead0man]

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For the same reason middle school cafeterias are self segregated, everything else being equal, most people will tend to hang out with the people that look most like them.

why do we self segregate?

[DC Al Fine]

People also tend to go to their "neighbourhood church". White/Black neighbourhoods explains a large part of the self-segregation.

[traininthedistance]

There are no >80% white public high schools anywhere in Shelby County.

I bet there are plenty of >80% white private schools, though.

[memphis]

There are no >80% white public high schools anywhere in Shelby County.

I bet there are plenty of >80% white private schools, though.

And nearly all of them are religiously affiliated. There is only one coed non-religious private high school in the entire county. There are a few dozen religious ones.

[DemPGH]

From my perspective, religion's beginnings are very much tribal inventions. In the modern day, religion serves social purposes, coming close to the "birds of a feather. . ." observation that Deadman makes. I'm sure there are mixed-racial churches, of course, but generally the social / tribal element to religion will support self-imposed segregation, if you want to use that term. And there are surely differences in the tone of worship, etc., amongst different cultures. That stuff is key, I think, today.

[memphis]

Well, the steroetype is that black churches are all about getting one riled up, while white church is all about calming one down. But it's worth pointing out that there are plenty of white churches that are Pentacostal/Charismatic/whatever that are in the sterotypical style of the black church. Yet they remain separate. A few of the churches around here have made an effort to be more inclusive, without a lot of success. There is something fundamentally wrong with religious life in America when it is substantially more segregated that Macy's.

[ilikeverin]

It depends on where you live, I think.  The (Episcopalian) church I go to is substantially integrated; probably majority white, but just barely, with demographics that seem to mimic the surrounding area fairly well (except having too few Hispanics).

[Globus Cruciger]

I don't think de facto segregation is necessarily a bad thing, though. As long as you're not actually banning people from attending anywhere, I think it's human nature for different cultures and tribes and nations to worship according to their own customs.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

My church would be segregated mostly along theological lines.  The conservative Adventists usually tend to view the progressive Adventists like myself as tools of Satan who are turning people away from the truth, so we have to stay quiet for fear of segregation.  But overall, my church isn't very segregated; there's not much to segregate it by.

[Franzl]

My church would be segregated mostly along theological lines.  The conservative Adventists usually tend to view the progressive Adventists like myself as tools of Satan who are turning people away from the truth, so we have to stay quiet for fear of segregation.  But overall, my church isn't very segregated; there's not much to segregate it by.

In what way are you progressive?

[Torie]

My theory is that churches are more social clubs than anything else. Good question though.

[DC Al Fine]

My church would be segregated mostly along theological lines.  The conservative Adventists usually tend to view the progressive Adventists like myself as tools of Satan who are turning people away from the truth, so we have to stay quiet for fear of segregation.  But overall, my church isn't very segregated; there's not much to segregate it by.

In what way are you progressive?

It's a relative term. Oldies is definitely a progressive in Adventist circles.

[Robert California]

There are a number of Philippinos in my church, though nothing close to "large".

[J. J.]

It depends on where you live, I think.  The (Episcopalian) church I go to is substantially integrated; probably majority white, but just barely, with demographics that seem to mimic the surrounding area fairly well (except having too few Hispanics).

In my experience, they are very segregated at the parish level.

Basically, it is a combination of area demographics and tradition.

[pbrower2a]

Churches can hardly avoid becoming cultural statements. Even tastes in musical style can make a difference.

...another institution infamous for segregation is the neighborhood bar (gay and lesbian bars might be an exception). People tend to drink with people like them. 

[justfollowingtheelections]

It has absolutely nothing to do with "being around people like you".  The reason churches are segregated is because they divided into different branches a long time ago along racial lines.
Also, very few people convert to "traditional" religions, most people simply have the same religion their parents or grandparents had.
I'm sure scientology isn't segregated.

[falling apart like the ashes of American flags]

Also, very few people convert to "traditional" religions, most people simply have the same religion their parents or grandparents had.

That's not really true in the US. By one poll 44% of people were something else than what they were raised.

[justfollowingtheelections]

Also, very few people convert to "traditional" religions, most people simply have the same religion their parents or grandparents had.

That's not really true in the US. By one poll 44% of people were something else than what they were raised.

Where did you get that number from?  If it is true, I have a feeling of them convert to "no religion".

[kobidobidog]

The church is their fort.  Whoever has a fort must  also have an an enemy.  People looked at the bible not looking to find truths in it.  They looked to see a presumed reason to war against what they see as an enemy.  Hence people warring against gays, and zoosexuals. Once they found a person to war against they felt complete, but they missed the mark by a long shot. The very nature of a church breeds division. The reality is all of them have the spirit of division in them being more alike than they would want to admit.