Norwegian Parliamentary Election 2013

[Viewfromthenorth]

So, reduce the amount of an administrative unit with actual functions other than being electoral districts to achieve better gender balance in Parliament. Sounds entirely logical to me.

Once again, it's much easier on everyone if people who are concerned about this can go to the party meetings and help nominate women at the top of the lists.

[eric82oslo]

So, reduce the amount of an administrative unit with actual functions other than being electoral districts to achieve better gender balance in Parliament. Sounds entirely logical to me.

Once again, it's much easier on everyone if people who are concerned about this can go to the party meetings and help nominate women at the top of the lists.

Basically every party and politician seem to think that 19 fylker is way too much anyways. It's not some kind of revolution. The big question is not if the number of fylker should be reduced, but rather if they should be reduced or abolished altogether. The Conservatives and Progress Party seem to prefer an abolishment, while most other parties rather prefer bigger regions to substitute today's fylker. Personally I'm for a continuation of fylker, but I would like to see a reduction in the number. Preferably to about half of what it is today. I also think that the number of municipalities should be reduced with about 200%. Today we have 428 of them I think. I don't see why we would need more than about 100. The municipalities would be run much more efficiently and most of them would save so much money. Plus there would be so many other benefits as well.

[Viewfromthenorth]

I certainly agree that the number of fylker needs to be reduced, or replaced with regions. I just find "more women in Parliament" to be an absolutely ridiculous argument for it. Not quite sure how the new constituencies would work out anyways. I mean, say you have 7-8 new regions (which is the most likely alternative at this point). You can't have a constituency like that - how would you get, say, parties in Hedmark, Oppland, Buskerud and Akershus to cooperate on a single list?

[Gustaf]

So, reduce the amount of an administrative unit with actual functions other than being electoral districts to achieve better gender balance in Parliament. Sounds entirely logical to me.

Once again, it's much easier on everyone if people who are concerned about this can go to the party meetings and help nominate women at the top of the lists.

Basically every party and politician seem to think that 19 fylker is way too much anyways. It's not some kind of revolution. The big question is not if the number of fylker should be reduced, but rather if they should be reduced or abolished altogether. The Conservatives and Progress Party seem to prefer an abolishment, while most other parties rather prefer bigger regions to substitute today's fylker. Personally I'm for a continuation of fylker, but I would like to see a reduction in the number. Preferably to about half of what it is today. I also think that the number of municipalities should be reduced with about 200%. Today we have 428 of them I think. I don't see why we would need more than about 100. The municipalities would be run much more efficiently and most of them would save so much money. Plus there would be so many other benefits as well.

Wow, we have about 290 of them in Sweden and we're twice your population. AND the smallest ones here are already ridiculously small.

[Viewfromthenorth]

Wow, we have about 290 of them in Sweden and we're twice your population. AND the smallest ones here are already ridiculously small.

Several experts have concluded that the ideal number of municipalities is between 100 and 105. Of course, that will never happen - too much opposition. But hopefully we can get something approaching your number.

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

Wow, we have about 290 of them in Sweden and we're twice your population. AND the smallest ones here are already ridiculously small.

Oh Gustaf, you with your Stockholm perspective on everything.


Anyway the reason Norway has so many more municipalities is that they've  never had the big municipal reform that we had here in the early 70's. Before that Sweden also had a ridiculous number of them.

The problem with such reforms is that they are incredibly unpopular. It's the classical "But not in my neighborhood" dilemma. People in general tend to agree that changes are needed, but they don't want it to be their municipality. 

Wealthy suburban/exurban municipalities doesn't want to merge with poor immigrant suburbs. Cities don't want to take over the ageing and costly country side surrounding them and so on. 
Not to mention that since large parts of Scandinavia are so scarcely populated merging two municipalities into one might mean that people who already might have over an hours drive to get to the municipal seat now will have over two hours. It's a delicate issue that savvy politicians would like someone else to get the heat for.

After all, the Swedish municipal reform in the 70's was one of the reasons for the Centre Party's (the strongest opponent of the reform) success in that era, and the Social Democrats fall from their 40-year unbroken power-hold.   

[Franknburger]

Sorry to interfere, but it seems that territorial reorganisation is an issue of general interest.

The thread below has evolved into some kind of discussion on federalisation, but also county/community merger in Spain:
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=176903.25

I have done a bit on the proposed Sachsen-Anhalt county reform in the German Elections thread, and intend to post more (proposed Brandenburg county merger, German discussion on state mergers) after the German election.

How about a general "European Territorial Reform" thread, to get an overview on discussions in various countries. If yes, where should it be placed- "International General Discussions", or "Political Geography" (the latter fits better, but a Europe-related thread might get lost in all the US gerrymandering threads there)?

P.S: This isn't meant to stop you from discussing the Norwegian fykker here. There is always the possibility to copy some posts form one into another thread...

[minionofmidas]

I have done a bit on the proposed Sachsen-Anhalt county reform in the German Elections thread

Thuringia.

[Zanas]

So, reduce the amount of an administrative unit with actual functions other than being electoral districts to achieve better gender balance in Parliament. Sounds entirely logical to me.

Once again, it's much easier on everyone if people who are concerned about this can go to the party meetings and help nominate women at the top of the lists.

Basically every party and politician seem to think that 19 fylker is way too much anyways. It's not some kind of revolution. The big question is not if the number of fylker should be reduced, but rather if they should be reduced or abolished altogether. The Conservatives and Progress Party seem to prefer an abolishment, while most other parties rather prefer bigger regions to substitute today's fylker. Personally I'm for a continuation of fylker, but I would like to see a reduction in the number. Preferably to about half of what it is today. I also think that the number of municipalities should be reduced with about 200%. Today we have 428 of them I think. I don't see why we would need more than about 100. The municipalities would be run much more efficiently and most of them would save so much money. Plus there would be so many other benefits as well.

Wow, we have about 290 of them in Sweden and we're twice your population. AND the smallest ones here are already ridiculously small.

Haha, you're both cute.

[Viewfromthenorth]

Wow, we have about 290 of them in Sweden and we're twice your population. AND the smallest ones here are already ridiculously small.

Haha, you're both cute.

Come on, competing with France in the "ridiculous subdivisions" competition is like trying to fight the entire United States military with a slingshot.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Though the importance of communes - except in urban areas where they're basically like any other local authority - is greatly exaggerated.

[traininthedistance]

Wow, we have about 290 of them in Sweden and we're twice your population. AND the smallest ones here are already ridiculously small.

Haha, you're both cute.

Come on, competing with France in the "ridiculous subdivisions" competition is like trying to fight the entire United States military with a slingshot.

France ain't got nothing on Pennsylvania:



And that's just one county.

[Viewfromthenorth]

France ain't got nothing on Pennsylvania:



And that's just one county.

Um, that's actually considerably better than much of France. I do agree that it can get a bit out of hand in PA as well, though.

[Zanas]

Though the importance of communes - except in urban areas where they're basically like any other local authority - is greatly exaggerated.

Well pardon me but I beg to differ. Ask any French in France where he lives, he will say the name of his commune first, then his département, and then you have all odds that he won't even know which region he lives in. The commune comes first, believe me. That's why it's so hard to reduce their staggering number.

Wow, we have about 290 of them in Sweden and we're twice your population. AND the smallest ones here are already ridiculously small.

Haha, you're both cute.

Come on, competing with France in the "ridiculous subdivisions" competition is like trying to fight the entire United States military with a slingshot.

France ain't got nothing on Pennsylvania:



And that's just one county.

Well I see your 2562 municipalities gathering 12 million inhabitants in Pennsylvania, and I raise you my 2339 communes in the Lorraine région gathering 2.3 million inhabitants.

Noob.

[Franknburger]

Though the importance of communes - except in urban areas where they're basically like any other local authority - is greatly exaggerated.

That should differ from country to country. The German constitution attributes specific functions and rights to three territorial layers -Federation, state, and commune. Counties, OTOH, are constitutionally nothing more than an association of communes. In Germany. most basic service provision (schools, utilities, road infrastructure, etc. ), as well as tax collection and spatial planning is resting with the communes. I don't know about the Scandinavian situation, but I suppose it to be similar to Germany due to common Germanic traditions of local self-rule (thing, etc.).

[Viewfromthenorth]

In Norway, municipalities are responsible for "primary education (until 10th grade), outpatient health services, senior citizen services, unemployment and other social services, zoning, economic development, and municipal roads."

So more or less correct, Franknburger. The counties are responsible for larger roads (the national government dumped a bunch of national roads in their heads a few years ago), public transport, high schools and dental care.

[Franknburger]

In Norway, municipalities are responsible for "primary education (until 10th grade), outpatient health services, senior citizen services, unemployment and other social services, zoning, economic development, and municipal roads."

So more or less correct, Franknburger. The counties are responsible for larger roads (the national government dumped a bunch of national roads in their heads a few years ago), public transport, high schools and dental care.

Thanks for reminding me on basic social protection/ care and unemployment, which is also resting with the German communes. Part of the flaws with implementing the Hartz IV social protection reforms here relates to the fact that all unemployment-related activities were  originally meant to be concentrated with the Federal Labour Agency, which the Constitutional Court ruled to be a violation of communal rights. As a result, a number of models for Labour Agency / commune, or Labour Agency / county (as association of communes) cooperation evolved, which resulted in reform implementation being anything but homogenous....
Public transport is mostly resting with the states, which are typically delegating part of it to the counties, with the exception of school buses (communes, as part of their responsibility for schooling in general). As to roads, there are of course federal and state roads, as well as county roads, in addition to municipal roads.
Health rests with the states here, but is mostly delegated to the counties. However, government responsibility is restricted to ensure basic health service provision (typically one public hospital per county). Otherwise, health, and especially dental service provision is in private hands, subjected to federal health sector regulation.

But yeah, while implementation details differ, the basic approach to municipal responsibilities seems to be quite similar in Germany and Norway.

[Sozialliberal]

Why did the MDG do so well in this election? Why did the people who switched to the MDG in this election not vote for Venstre or the SV?

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

But yeah, while implementation details differ, the basic approach to municipal responsibilities seems to be quite similar in Germany and Norway.

The same is true about Sweden as well.

[eric82oslo]

Why did the MDG do so well in this election? Why did the people who switched to the MDG in this election not vote for Venstre or the SV?

Because MDG had much more fresh and modern solution to old-fashioned and some new, issues? I don't find it strange at all. Had I not voted MDG, I would either have voted Rødt, SV or Venstre. My big issue with Venstre was their blue-blue-alliance, basically making it 100% impossible for me to vote for them. Similarily I hate both Centre Party and Labour Party and have no respect what so ever for the new party leader of SV, which basically makes it next to impossible for me to vote SV. So my vote was extremely simple. Either to vote MDG or to vote Rødt for the very first time. The chance was more than 90%, honestly even way more than 95% that I would vote MDG. Which I did. I've never ever ever been more proud of a political choice I've made, even not my non-significant vote for Obama in 2008.

[Diouf]

After a few weeks of exploratory negotiations, Høyre has now decided to continue concrete government negotiations with only Fremskrittspartiet. Kristelig Folkeparti og Venstre have committed itself to backing the government, but have opted out of joining the government.