Religious opposition to the table fork

[falling apart like the ashes of American flags]

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http://robinhl.com/2012/12/02/religious-opposition-to-the-table-fork

Good example of what legalism and religion leads to.

[Tokugawa Sexgod Ieyasu]

Actually, I can kind of see why people a thousand years ago, clergy or otherwise, would have seen this as a pretentious extravagance, although it's obviously ridiculous to contemplate in the current era. St Peter Damian and his cohort were in any case pretty clearly on the culturally reactionary side of this issue.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Even today golden tableware would be ostentatious as would a valid who had someone else cut up their food.  That said, I don't see the connection to legalism.  I'm not aware of any Bible verse or doctrine that specifies how one is supposed to eat one's food.

[falling apart like the ashes of American flags]

That said, I don't see the connection to legalism.  I'm not aware of any Bible verse or doctrine that specifies how one is supposed to eat one's food.

That's why it's legalism. And just as silly as things like mandated fasts, prohibitions on drinking and dancing, formal dress codes, etc. are today.

[Tokugawa Sexgod Ieyasu]

That said, I don't see the connection to legalism.  I'm not aware of any Bible verse or doctrine that specifies how one is supposed to eat one's food.

That's why it's legalism. And just as silly as things like mandated fasts, prohibitions on drinking and dancing, formal dress codes, etc. are today.

Yet conversely, those things are as sensible today as this was a thousand years ago. Which is to say, debatable but arguably a pretty reasonable standpoint.

[patrick1]

Alright BRTD, so things that are not specifically mentioned in the bible are legalism then what of the many offensive and ridiculous things that are in it?

As afleitch had brought up your church organization seems rather sneaky in this whole lets stay non-offensive and positive routine.  Are they just not taking stances or too cowardly to tell you what they really believe. 

[Joe Biden 2020]

I agree with BRTD on this one.  This is extreme legalism.  And, Ernest is right, there are no Bible passages that define how to eat one's food. 

[patrick1]

I agree with BRTD on this one.  This is extreme legalism.  And, Ernest is right, there are no Bible passages that define how to eat one's food. 

But there are ones that call the cheeseburger that you just had sinful....

[Joe Biden 2020]

I agree with BRTD on this one.  This is extreme legalism.  And, Ernest is right, there are no Bible passages that define how to eat one's food. 

But there are ones that call the cheeseburger that you just had sinful....

I just cooked for the first time in years and now you're attacking me for that?  I give up.

[Tokugawa Sexgod Ieyasu]

Well, I mean obviously this reads as absurd at present--though not as much as one might think considering this was somebody who had other people cut up the food for her and whose utensils seem to have been essentially gilded olive forks judging by the description--but I for one am trying to achieve a fusion of horizons rather than just projecting my own backwards by a millennium.

[patrick1]

I agree with BRTD on this one.  This is extreme legalism.  And, Ernest is right, there are no Bible passages that define how to eat one's food. 

But there are ones that call the cheeseburger that you just had sinful....

I just cooked for the first time in years and now you're attacking me for that?  I give up.

Meat and dairy together; enjoy your lake of fire  

Just a silly point that in wahhabi fashion BRTD is seemingly attacking innovations while papering over the MANY things in the bible that he would presumably disagree with.

[DC Al Fine]

I agree with BRTD on this one.  This is extreme legalism.  And, Ernest is right, there are no Bible passages that define how to eat one's food. 

But there are ones that call the cheeseburger that you just had sinful....

" “I was in the city of Joppa praying, and in a trance I saw a vision. I saw something like a large sheet being let down from heaven by its four corners, and it came down to where I was. I looked into it and saw four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, reptiles and birds. Then I heard a voice telling me, ‘Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.’

“I replied, ‘Surely not, Lord! Nothing impure or unclean has ever entered my mouth.’
 “The voice spoke from heaven a second time, ‘Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.’""
Acts 11:5-9

[Robert California]

I'm kind of convinced that I shouldn't use forks any more. Nor spoons, after all, we can cup our hands. However, knives are still allowable.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Opposition to the use of forks was mostly just 'I don't like things that are different' - the use of religious language as a method of complaint was just a reflection of how things were in the Middle Ages and immediately after. You saw similar stuff when men stopped wearing long robes.

[falling apart like the ashes of American flags]

Alright BRTD, so things that are not specifically mentioned in the bible are legalism then what of the many offensive and ridiculous things that are in it?

Are those the things that Jesus taught?

As afleitch had brought up your church organization seems rather sneaky in this whole lets stay non-offensive and positive routine.  Are they just not taking stances or too cowardly to tell you what they really believe.

Well let's see, I've talked to one of the pastors who said he was voting against all the amendments on our ballot (though his general attitude seems to be anti-politics, his Facebook feed on Election Day simply said "this is by far the worst day on Facebook") and that I've never seen anything conservative in anyone's there's Facebook and that I've seen some people from there at the shows I go to and that I also met some people from there at the DFL's election party I can conclude what the political leaning is. I find it a little odd that someone identifying as Catholic would hit me on this though, or someone who apparently has no problem with people they know going to a Catholic church. Would afleitch get on my back if I was going to a church of the vocally and very well funding anti-gay Twin Cities Catholic diocese?

[Tokugawa Sexgod Ieyasu]

I'm kind of convinced that I shouldn't use forks any more. Nor spoons, after all, we can cup our hands. However, knives are still allowable.

Grow out your fingernails the way God intended, Cathcon.

[patrick1]

I agree with BRTD on this one.  This is extreme legalism.  And, Ernest is right, there are no Bible passages that define how to eat one's food. 

But there are ones that call the cheeseburger that you just had sinful....

" “I was in the city of Joppa praying, and in a trance I saw a vision. I saw something like a large sheet being let down from heaven by its four corners, and it came down to where I was. I looked into it and saw four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, reptiles and birds. Then I heard a voice telling me, ‘Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.’

“I replied, ‘Surely not, Lord! Nothing impure or unclean has ever entered my mouth.’
 “The voice spoke from heaven a second time, ‘Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.’""
Acts 11:5-9

For such a perfect deity, He certainly takes a lot of mulligans.

Or, alternatively, the writers of THE BIBLE left some huge plot holes and open ended, go nowhere story lines. Like whatever happened to that Russian guy in the woods? Crap, wrong series.


Alright, I'll bow out now.  

[falling apart like the ashes of American flags]

Is patrick's sig supposed to be ironic?

[patrick1]

Alright BRTD, so things that are not specifically mentioned in the bible are legalism then what of the many offensive and ridiculous things that are in it?

Are those the things that Jesus taught?

As afleitch had brought up your church organization seems rather sneaky in this whole lets stay non-offensive and positive routine.  Are they just not taking stances or too cowardly to tell you what they really believe.

Well let's see, I've talked to one of the pastors who said he was voting against all the amendments on our ballot (though his general attitude seems to be anti-politics, his Facebook feed on Election Day simply said "this is by far the worst day on Facebook") and that I've never seen anything conservative in anyone's there's Facebook and that I've seen some people from there at the shows I go to and that I also met some people from there at the DFL's election party I can conclude what the political leaning is. I find it a little odd that someone identifying as Catholic would hit me on this though, or someone who apparently has no problem with people they know going to a Catholic church. Would afleitch get on my back if I was going to a church of the vocally and very well funding anti-gay Twin Cities Catholic diocese?

I don't try to peddle my church's bull$hit.

And to your post above, I am comfortable with paradox.  There is a good chance that it is all a nice cosmic fairy tale. Some things done to make people behave better, some to enforce social cohesion or worse control. Doesn't mean I still can't love Jesus, most of his and the church's message and honor Mary. I may have a problem with reverence but I like to think if God exists he does have a sense of humour-  A sick one by the look of things.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

That said, I don't see the connection to legalism.  I'm not aware of any Bible verse or doctrine that specifies how one is supposed to eat one's food.

That's why it's legalism. And just as silly as things like mandated fasts, prohibitions on drinking and dancing, formal dress codes, etc. are today.

Legalism is an overused term of abuse for any sort of rigid adherence to custom, even when said custom has no basis in the Mosaic law.

[Tokugawa Sexgod Ieyasu]

That said, I don't see the connection to legalism.  I'm not aware of any Bible verse or doctrine that specifies how one is supposed to eat one's food.

That's why it's legalism. And just as silly as things like mandated fasts, prohibitions on drinking and dancing, formal dress codes, etc. are today.

Legalism is an overused term of abuse for any sort of rigid adherence to custom, even when said custom has no basis in the Mosaic law.

And the idea that even this ridiculously broad definition has anything to do with what does or doesn't constitute a religion is incredibly puerile.

[Insula Dei]

Opposition to the use of forks was mostly just 'I don't like things that are different' - the use of religious language as a method of complaint was just a reflection of how things were in the Middle Ages and immediately after. You saw similar stuff when men stopped wearing long robes.

Or bathed a little bit too often.

[justfollowingtheelections]

You know what I think is ridiculous?
Caucasians going to asian restaurants, given the option of either a fork or chopsticks by the waiter and they pick chopsticks which they don't know how to use!

[John Dibble]

You know what I think is ridiculous?
Caucasians going to asian restaurants, given the option of either a fork or chopsticks by the waiter and they pick chopsticks which they don't know how to use!

What if we do know how to use them? I've had a Chinese exchange student tell me I was better at using them than he was and he grew up with them.

[DC Al Fine]

Opposition to the use of forks was mostly just 'I don't like things that are different' - the use of religious language as a method of complaint was just a reflection of how things were in the Middle Ages and immediately after. You saw similar stuff when men stopped wearing long robes.

Or bathed a little bit too often.

That's a common misconception. Medieval people often bathed more than we do. It was recreation for them.