GOP Senator, a deficit hawk and tax reform champion: Let's Raise Rates

[memphis]

The GOP can refuse to raise the debt limit

You understand what you're suggesting? Nice country you got there. Sure would be a shame if anything happenned to it. Let me make you an offer you can't refuse. Yes, that sounds like a great strategy for the GOP.

Anything the Dems want in more revenue beyond the 4 percentage point rise in rates for "the rich," needs to be in exchange for entitlement reform.

Since when have the Dems asked for revenues other than those from the marginal income above 250k? Were they to go that route, you would have a point, but Obama has been very "clear" (as he is wont to be) that he is not asking for "one dime" beyond that. And, in any case, the GOP wouldn't give that up for all the tea in China. You may as well ask them for a constitutional amendment requiring all citizens to get gay marrried.

[Torie]

The GOP can refuse to raise the debt limit

You understand what you're suggesting? Nice country you got there. Sure would be a shame if anything happenned to it. Let me make you an offer you can't refuse. Yes, that sounds like a great strategy for the GOP.

Anything the Dems want in more revenue beyond the 4 percentage point rise in rates for "the rich," needs to be in exchange for entitlement reform.

Since when have the Dems asked for revenues other than those from the marginal income above 250k? Were they to go that route, you would have a point, but Obama has been very "clear" (as he is wont to be) that he is not asking for "one dime" beyond that. And, in any case, the GOP wouldn't give that up for all the tea in China. You may as well ask them for a constitutional amendment requiring all citizens to get gay marrried.

Nah, Obama wants the rate increases, cap deductions, etc. That is how he gets to his 1.6 trillion in additional revenues or whatever it is. He really doesn't want to even talk about entitlements right now, until he gets his revenues. That dog won't hunt - nor should it. He can unilaterally get his rate increases, but he can't unilaterally raise the debt limit while dragging his feet on entitlements, and perhaps raising revenue in a more economically efficient way, then getting it all out of rate increases. I'm willing to go to the mat with Obama on this one. Hopefully, the GOP in Congress agrees with me.

[Maxwell]

Preferably sooner rather than later before the nutters primary Coburn and co. for "surrendering".

Coburn is term limiting himself.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

Nah, Obama wants the rate increases, cap deductions, etc. That is how he gets to his 1.6 trillion in additional revenues or whatever it is. He really doesn't want to even talk about entitlements right now, until he gets his revenues. That dog won't hunt - nor should it. He can unilaterally get his rate increases, but he can't unilaterally raise the debt limit while dragging his feet on entitlements, and perhaps raising revenue in a more economically efficient way, then getting it all out of rate increases. I'm willing to go to the mat with Obama on this one. Hopefully, the GOP in Congress agrees with me.

Bravo, sir, for getting through that without using the word "tax" once in regard to the Obama plan.

[memphis]

Torie, how do you know the President "wants" all these things? He has made no statements of such, and has repeatedly insisted (in a very clear way) the exact opposite. I may as well say that you "want" to end entitlements completely despite all your statements to the contrary. It is a very silly game to speculate what other people want. It reminds me of the Ann Coulter lesbian thread.

[Torie]

Torie, how do you know the President "wants" all these things? He has made no statements of such, and has repeatedly insisted (in a very clear way) the exact opposite. I may as well say that you "want" to end entitlements completely despite all your statements to the contrary. It is a very silly game to speculate what other people want. It reminds me of the Ann Coulter lesbian thread.

You disagree that he "wants" 1.6 trillion in additional revenues, another 50 billion in spending, with something like 400 billion in cuts Memphis?  If so, I guess one of us has the "facts" wrong. He also has said nothing about entitlements, and wants the GOP to give up the debt ceiling limit card - forever.

No! Just no. On this one, I'm militant. I am angry with Obama, very angry, on this issue. It's mat time.

[Torie]

Nah, Obama wants the rate increases, cap deductions, etc. That is how he gets to his 1.6 trillion in additional revenues or whatever it is. He really doesn't want to even talk about entitlements right now, until he gets his revenues. That dog won't hunt - nor should it. He can unilaterally get his rate increases, but he can't unilaterally raise the debt limit while dragging his feet on entitlements, and perhaps raising revenue in a more economically efficient way, then getting it all out of rate increases. I'm willing to go to the mat with Obama on this one. Hopefully, the GOP in Congress agrees with me.

Bravo, sir, for getting through that without using the word "tax" once in regard to the Obama plan.

Thank you. It was inadvertent, but thanks.

[memphis]

Torie, how do you know the President "wants" all these things? He has made no statements of such, and has repeatedly insisted (in a very clear way) the exact opposite. I may as well say that you "want" to end entitlements completely despite all your statements to the contrary. It is a very silly game to speculate what other people want. It reminds me of the Ann Coulter lesbian thread.

You disagree that he "wants" 1.6 trillion in additional revenues, another 50 billion in spending, with something like 400 billion in cuts Memphis?  If so, I guess one of us has the "facts" wrong. He also has said nothing about entitlements, and wants the GOP to give up the debt ceiling limit card - forever.

No! Just no. On this one, I'm militant. I am angry with Obama, very angry, on this issue. It's mat time.

I understand that you must keep the golden toilet seat. It is, after all, your Precious. And although you may have your preferred way to make it happen, you are militant about keeping it, one way or another, consequences for others be damned. You've made that abundantly clear, and I take you at your word. If you're claiming that the President desires specific things, the onus is on you to demonstrate that. I can't prove a negative. I also think the debt ceiling card is a non-issue. I do think the Republicans are a cunning and Michaevallian group, willing to do whatever it takes to increase inequality in this country. There is no other explanation. However, I don't think they are willing to send the nation into financial default to do it. I don't think they're willing to burn down a house that they have to live in.

[Torie]

Not a bad post Memphis, really, but the golden toilet seat thing was a bit "out there."  One of my eccentricities is that in the end, money does not mean too much to me, nor possessions, beyond the basics.  Never has. (I drive cars until I don't trust them anymore to not strand me on the freeway. I don't care about cars. Or furniture, or clothing, beyond tight jeans.) It just "happened" because well, whatever. You should see the interior of my pad! Ask sbane about it.  LOL.  

No, my militancy actually has more to do with your generation. You are just being so screwed. It's horrible really. My conscience aches, yet all I can do is ineffectually whimper. So sad.

[bedstuy]

There is no serious Republican plan to deal with the deficit.  Perhaps with the exception of Coburn, their so-called deficit hawks are really just faux-hawks and shmohawks. 

The Republican party is devoid of real policy on these issues.  Instead, they have ironclad rules: Never increase taxes, never lower military spending, privatize everything, forget about the environment, et al.  Perhaps more important for Republicans, they always want to maximize their political power: IE Obama has to propose all the unpopular stuff, we want to keep the threat of torpedoing the US economy, Obama needs to give us political cover for any compromise we make.

This attitude is just ridiculous.  Thinking people don't live by ironclad rules.  Actual leaders take political risks for the good of the country.  Why can't these Republicans deficit Shmohawks just have up or down votes on a series bills that would solve this crisis?  That would be too scary? 

[King]

No, my militancy actually has more to do with your generation. You are just being so screwed. It's horrible really. My conscience aches, yet all I can do is ineffectually whimper. So sad.

I'm sure your grandfather felt the same way about you, Torie.

[Sbane]

Yeah, Torie has no golden toilets. I was very disappointed.

[memphis]

No, my militancy actually has more to do with your generation. You are just being so screwed. It's horrible really. My conscience aches, yet all I can do is ineffectually whimper. So sad.

If it would ease your conscience, you are more than welcome to send me a rebate check. Inbox me and I'll tell you where to send it.  Until then,the idea that you must have tax cuts in order to help me is flatly absurd. The baby boomers grew up at a time with much higher taxes on the wealthy and they came through just fine. The notion that taxes are the reason my generation is "screwed" strikes me as crazy. We have much bigger problems. As your party is wont to point out, 47% of Americans pay no income tax at all. It's certainly much higher amongst people my age, with their low incomes and dependent children.

[Simfan34]

When I proposed that list, I wasn't expecting every single thing to be agreed to and adopted in their current form.  It is an outline, not an actual proposal.  That said, I am glad I am not the only Democrat interested in compromise.

Also, Sen. Bob Corker (R -TN) advises his fellow Republicans to concede the tax fight to President Obama:

Corker: Obama's tax offer may be 'best route' for GOP

By JOSH GERSTEIN | 12/9/12 9:55 AM EST

Republicans may need to concede the current tax fight to President Barack Obama, who holds the "upper hand" in that battle, Sen. Bob Corker said Sunday.

"There is a growing group of folks looking at this and realizing that we don’t have a lot of cards as it relates to the tax issue," the Tennessee Republican told "Fox News Sunday." "I think [that notion] has merit....I actually am beginning to believe that is the best route for us to take."

Corker said ceding to Obama and preserving current tax rates for 98 percent of Americans while allowing rates to rise to Clinton-era levels on the top 2 percent would allow Republicans to pick up the fight over spending and entitlements next year.

Corker also said the GOP will have more leverage in the spending and entitlements debate next year because it can use the threat of not raising the debt ceiling to craft a favorable deal with Obama.

"There's a growing body of folks who are willing to look at the rate on the top 2 percent," Corker. "The shift in focus in entitlements is where we need to go.....Republicans know they have the debt ceiling that's coming up around the corner and the leverage is going to shift as soon as we get beyond this issue—the leverage is going to shift to our side."
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Are we witnessing the end of the Reagan Revolution at last? 

No, we are seeing the rebirth of its common-sense policies. What we are seeing is the death of the Tea Party revolution.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

When I proposed that list, I wasn't expecting every single thing to be agreed to and adopted in their current form.  It is an outline, not an actual proposal.  That said, I am glad I am not the only Democrat interested in compromise.

Also, Sen. Bob Corker (R -TN) advises his fellow Republicans to concede the tax fight to President Obama:

Corker: Obama's tax offer may be 'best route' for GOP

By JOSH GERSTEIN | 12/9/12 9:55 AM EST

Republicans may need to concede the current tax fight to President Barack Obama, who holds the "upper hand" in that battle, Sen. Bob Corker said Sunday.

"There is a growing group of folks looking at this and realizing that we don’t have a lot of cards as it relates to the tax issue," the Tennessee Republican told "Fox News Sunday." "I think [that notion] has merit....I actually am beginning to believe that is the best route for us to take."

Corker said ceding to Obama and preserving current tax rates for 98 percent of Americans while allowing rates to rise to Clinton-era levels on the top 2 percent would allow Republicans to pick up the fight over spending and entitlements next year.

Corker also said the GOP will have more leverage in the spending and entitlements debate next year because it can use the threat of not raising the debt ceiling to craft a favorable deal with Obama.

"There's a growing body of folks who are willing to look at the rate on the top 2 percent," Corker. "The shift in focus in entitlements is where we need to go.....Republicans know they have the debt ceiling that's coming up around the corner and the leverage is going to shift as soon as we get beyond this issue—the leverage is going to shift to our side."
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Are we witnessing the end of the Reagan Revolution at last?  

No, we are seeing the rebirth of its common-sense policies. What we are seeing is the death of the Tea Party revolution.

It wasn't opposition to common sense policies that drove the creation of the tea party and if the death of the tea party is taken to its full extent, and a 100% reversal back to the old ways and status quo, then the GOP trully is dead.