Evangelicals Becoming More Devout, Catholics Less So

[All Along The Watchtower]

For BRTD....

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http://news.yahoo.com/evangelicals-becoming-more-devout-catholics-less-183200875.html

Anyway...curious as to what you all think of the implications of these trends and statistics are.

[DC Al Fine]

When they talk about Catholics' relative devotion are they talking about Catholics who go to mass every week or people who identify as Catholics? I find that Evangelicals tend to drop out and become angry atheists, while Catholics will keep calling themselves Catholic even if they haven't been to church in 30 years.

[justfollowingtheelections]

The thing about Catholics is that in many cases their religion is a link to their ethnic community.  To Italians, Irish, Hispanics, Filipinos being Catholic is part of being Italian, Irish etc.

[patrick1]

The thing about Catholics is that in many cases their religion is a link to their ethnic community.  To Italians, Irish, Hispanics, Filipinos being Catholic is part of being Italian, Irish etc.

Uh, that's just stupid.

I think you are only seeing the spiritual functions of a church.  For hundreds of years and different waves of immigrant groups the church served/s an important social and economic role for the community. Different parishes sprung up where you could still go to mass in your native tongue and also meet with fellow members of your community for parish functions.  Of course, due to a number of factors this is dwindling. 

[DemPGH]

These days they're probably not climbing over each other to get to the confessional for fear that their souls will be condemned to perdition, which is just one example. On the other hand, evangelical Christianity is nearly impossible to divorce from right ring politics these days. Not surprised.

[All Along The Watchtower]

The thing about Catholics is that in many cases their religion is a link to their ethnic community.  To Italians, Irish, Hispanics, Filipinos being Catholic is part of being Italian, Irish etc.

Uh, that's just stupid.

I think you are only seeing the spiritual functions of a church.  For hundreds of years and different waves of immigrant groups the church served/s an important social and economic role for the community. Different parishes sprung up where you could still go to mass in your native tongue and also meet with fellow members of your community for parish functions.  Of course, due to a number of factors this is dwindling. 

I know. I was doing my BRTD impersonation.

[falling apart like the ashes of American flags]

The thing about Catholics is that in many cases their religion is a link to their ethnic community.  To Italians, Irish, Hispanics, Filipinos being Catholic is part of being Italian, Irish etc.

Uh, that's just stupid.

I think you are only seeing the spiritual functions of a church.  For hundreds of years and different waves of immigrant groups the church served/s an important social and economic role for the community. Different parishes sprung up where you could still go to mass in your native tongue and also meet with fellow members of your community for parish functions.  Of course, due to a number of factors this is dwindling. 

I know. I was doing my BRTD impersonation.

Do you seriously think what he's talking about is all that present in the Midwest? I mean even I'm 1/4 German Catholic. Should that mean something to me? (Also remember that being in my whole subculture basically means not having an "ethnic community".)

On the other hand, evangelical Christianity is nearly impossible to divorce from right wing politics these days.

False.

[justfollowingtheelections]

The thing about Catholics is that in many cases their religion is a link to their ethnic community.  To Italians, Irish, Hispanics, Filipinos being Catholic is part of being Italian, Irish etc.

Uh, that's just stupid.

Is the namecalling necessary?  I have reported this post and I'm adding you to my ignore list.  You obviously have nothing constructive to add to this conversation.  I'm honestly sick of people like you who act like jerks and ruin every conversation.  I am always respectful of all opinions, even the ones I disagree with and I have never given anyone a reason to insult me like this.

[patrick1]

The thing about Catholics is that in many cases their religion is a link to their ethnic community.  To Italians, Irish, Hispanics, Filipinos being Catholic is part of being Italian, Irish etc.

Uh, that's just stupid.

Is the namecalling necessary?  I have reported this post and I'm adding you to my ignore list.  You obviously have nothing constructive to add to this conversation.  I'm honestly sick of people like you who act like jerks and ruin every conversation.  I am always respectful of all opinions, even the ones I disagree with and I have never given anyone a reason to insult me like this.

Hey blago, see a few posts down from that my man.  He was just having fun with our friend BRTD and not making any sort of commentary on you.  From his posts, Progressive is one of the best posters here and I have never seen him be rude at all.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

Not surprising.  From my experience, and I agree with one of the above posters, Catholicism "runs in the family", so to speak, more than many other Christian sects.  I've also noticed that Protestants more often than not refer to themselves as "Christian", and Catholics refer to themselves as "Catholic"... much in the way most of my Jewish friends will refer to themselves as Jewish, but take part in little more than Hanukkah celebrations.

The idea of the evangelizing duty also tends to promote a certain commitment, methinks. 

[falling apart like the ashes of American flags]

Not surprising.  From my experience, and I agree with one of the above posters, Catholicism "runs in the family", so to speak, more than many other Christian sects.  I've also noticed that Protestants more often than not refer to themselves as "Christian", and Catholics refer to themselves as "Catholic"... much in the way most of my Jewish friends will refer to themselves as Jewish, but take part in little more than Hanukkah celebrations.

The idea of the evangelizing duty also tends to promote a certain commitment, methinks. 

Is Minnesota/North Dakota some odd region in the country largely immune from this stuff? And if so why?

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

Not surprising.  From my experience, and I agree with one of the above posters, Catholicism "runs in the family", so to speak, more than many other Christian sects.  I've also noticed that Protestants more often than not refer to themselves as "Christian", and Catholics refer to themselves as "Catholic"... much in the way most of my Jewish friends will refer to themselves as Jewish, but take part in little more than Hanukkah celebrations.

The idea of the evangelizing duty also tends to promote a certain commitment, methinks. 

Is Minnesota/North Dakota some odd region in the country largely immune from this stuff? And if so why?

It may be the other way around.  I think the Northeast is much more fertile ground for this kind of attitude.  For a multitude of reasons, the Irish and the Italians (the big-time Catholics) in the NE still self-identify, do so strongly, and know exactly where their family comes from.  As opposed to being so mixed as to having no idea where exactly your heritage comes from.  Plus, if you are going to do a study that attempts to measure Catholic devotion in the USA, I would suspect that they would look to Northeastern Catholics, considering they are very much concentrated up here (the white ones anyway). 

And yes, I can absolutely see Catholics in the Northeast become less devout because, simply, weekly church-going is just not culturally important up here anymore.  I've never been to the Midwest so you would have to educate me on the subject, but families that attend weekly services is certainly in the minority.  No doubt, Catholics tend to observe Lent and Good Friday, and of course they observe Christmas and Easter.  But does Catholicism guide the everyday behavior and conduct of your average Northeastern Catholic?  Not a chance. 

Now the evangelicals?  Much more likely to attend weekly, much more likely to wear it on their sleeve, and much more likely to use their faith in daily decisions. 

I am only painting a picture of the Northeast here, but you would also look to the Northeast to measure the attitude of an average American Catholic.  Perhaps this is how you end up with a study that displays this type of result. 

[falling apart like the ashes of American flags]

And yes, I can absolutely see Catholics in the Northeast become less devout because, simply, weekly church-going is just not culturally important up here anymore.  I've never been to the Midwest so you would have to educate me on the subject, but families that attend weekly services is certainly in the minority.

I kind of described the Midwestern situation in an above post. I doubt most people go every week (they might claim to though) but it's no doubt more common than in the Midwest. But most Catholics here would claim to be Christian first and Catholic second. Yes the fact we don't have any real distinct ethnic communities at least amongst immigrants no doubt plays a role, the ethnic identity after all associated with this area is Scandinavian and Lutheran. There are some areas in central Minnesota that were so heavily German they had German-speaking minorities and often municipalities that required new laws and codes to be published in English and German up to as recently as the 60s, but those Germans are just as likely to be Protestant. Is someone who is something like 1/4 French, 1/4 Swedish, 1/4 Norwegian and 1/4 German and is raised Catholic going to see some type of unshakable Catholic ethnic identity on themselves?

So from what I've gathered people raised that way will likely identify as "Catholic" if they are still practicing, and as "none"/just "Christian" if they aren't. That's basically why I'm not a fan of this type of thing, I think it's kind of rude to people who do leave Catholicism and don't identify that way (lots here) but still have some insisting they are still Catholic in some way. My mom had some relatives (none of whom are still alive) who apparently threw a fit about her getting married in a Lutheran church and weren't really that happy with her even marrying a Lutheran at all...as noted though none are still alive and I can't imagine many people caring about that today. That type of thing is so common and uncontroversial today I wasn't even aware there might be people offended until I was an adult.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

And yes, I can absolutely see Catholics in the Northeast become less devout because, simply, weekly church-going is just not culturally important up here anymore.  I've never been to the Midwest so you would have to educate me on the subject, but families that attend weekly services is certainly in the minority.

I kind of described the Midwestern situation in an above post. I doubt most people go every week (they might claim to though) but it's no doubt more common than in the Midwest. But most Catholics here would claim to be Christian first and Catholic second. Yes the fact we don't have any real distinct ethnic communities at least amongst immigrants no doubt plays a role, the ethnic identity after all associated with this area is Scandinavian and Lutheran. There are some areas in central Minnesota that were so heavily German they had German-speaking minorities and often municipalities that required new laws and codes to be published in English and German up to as recently as the 60s, but those Germans are just as likely to be Protestant. Is someone who is something like 1/4 French, 1/4 Swedish, 1/4 Norwegian and 1/4 German and is raised Catholic going to see some type of unshakable Catholic ethnic identity on themselves?

So from what I've gathered people raised that way will likely identify as "Catholic" if they are still practicing, and as "none"/just "Christian" if they aren't. That's basically why I'm not a fan of this type of thing, I think it's kind of rude to people who do leave Catholicism and don't identify that way (lots here) but still have some insisting they are still Catholic in some way. My mom had some relatives (none of whom are still alive) who apparently threw a fit about her getting married in a Lutheran church and weren't really that happy with her even marrying a Lutheran at all...as noted though none are still alive and I can't imagine many people caring about that today. That type of thing is so common and uncontroversial today I wasn't even aware there might be people offended until I was an adult.

I would say probably not to this question... but honestly, seeing something like this in the Northeast is EXTREMELY rare.  3/4 German/Scandinavian?  That's rare enough up here as it is.  For them to be Catholic?  How would that happen?  (this is a question I'm actually directing towards myself, because I don't know... Bavarian I guess, but most German families here would have a hard time tracing to the region the family is from)  I would venture to guess that this hypothetical rarity would TEND to call themselves "Christian".

As to the 2nd bolded part, almost ALL people raised in the Catholic tradition around here will identify as such if they are practicing or not (I don't really consider hitting up church on Xmas/Easter and giving up meat for one day a year to be practicing).  It's literally like asking someone what ethnicity they are (in my experience anyway), and seems very prevalent among the Irish and Italians, who are quite plentiful in the Northeast.  And nobody really "leaves" the religion.  Their families just stop going to church weekly when the kids aren't young anymore, they don't really do any CCD or anything like that after the age of 10... consequential attitudes follow.  They'll just involve themselves in the fun stuff like Xmas and Easter, but they never really left.  

I think I'll provide my own little story since I think it mirrors your typically white, suburban Northeastern family quite perfectly, just replace "Episcopalian" with "Catholic".  Back when me and my sis were little kids, we went to an Episcopal Church (which is about as Catholic as you can get without actually being Catholic) weekly for stretches of time.  Obviously, Easter and Xmas were big.  I understood the basics, but it was mostly just something I went along with.  When asked by people, I was Episcopalian because that's what my family was.  As we got older, the number of times we went dwindled because, simply, no one (parents included) felt like getting up on Sunday.  It turns out that when it came to how we lived, it just wasn't that important.  We never "left" the Church, but Xmas/Easter became the only church-going days and that was fine with us and fine with the other people at the church because many were in the same boat.  We still called ourselves Episcopalian, though.  As I was exposed to other philosophies and ideologies as I got older, there was no push back from my parents or anyone in my family; formulating my own view of the world was important to them.  This is where I split with the norm.  My exposure to different ideas led me towards agnosticism/atheism... but a vast majority will just stick with the status quo and call themselves "Catholic" because the religion doesn't effect what they do anyway.

[angus]

I am only painting a picture of the Northeast here, but you would also look to the Northeast to measure the attitude of an average American Catholic. 

No, it works in the upper midwest just as well.  My father was born and raised in northern Minnesota, and was one of eleven siblings.  They all self-identify as Catholics, even those who do not hold any particular religious beliefs and who never attend mass. 

Works that way in California, Texas, Iowa, and everywhere else.  Catholic (and Jew and a few others) is more of an ethno-religious identity, and not one that you might have chosen, given the choice.  Evangelical christian is something you choose, on the other hand.  It's purely a religion.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

I am only painting a picture of the Northeast here, but you would also look to the Northeast to measure the attitude of an average American Catholic. 

No, it works in the upper midwest just as well.  My father was born and raised in northern Minnesota, and was one of eleven siblings.  They all self-identify as Catholics, even those who do not hold any particular religious beliefs and who never attend mass. 

Works that way in California, Texas, Iowa, and everywhere else.  Catholic (and Jew and a few others) is more of an ethno-religious identity, and not one that you might have chosen, given the choice.  Evangelical christian is something you choose, on the other hand.  It's purely a religion.

I wasn't suggesting the Midwest isn't similar.  I confined my argument to the Northeast alone because I have no idea what's it's like anywhere else pertaining to this subject.

[angus]

I confined my argument to the Northeast alone because I have no idea what's it's like anywhere else pertaining to this subject.

They say Spain is pretty but I've never been.  (Daniel says it's the best place that he's ever seen.)  Still, I know that the rain in Spain falls mainly on the plain.  Also, I know that big houses of worship sit empty, yet 75% of Spaniards self-identify as Catholic.  I actually had a long discussion about this with a Spaniard who lived next door to me for many years.  His view wasn't any different than what you or I or Patrick have described herein. 

No need to confine your argument to please BRTD, or anyone else.  Vicarious knowledge works as well.  It's not as though you have to travel to the surface of the sun to know that it's blindingly bright and burning hot, or that you have to sample a bowl of warm and freshly laid dog feces to know that it's something you wouldn't want to eat.

[falling apart like the ashes of American flags]

And yes, I can absolutely see Catholics in the Northeast become less devout because, simply, weekly church-going is just not culturally important up here anymore.  I've never been to the Midwest so you would have to educate me on the subject, but families that attend weekly services is certainly in the minority.

I kind of described the Midwestern situation in an above post. I doubt most people go every week (they might claim to though) but it's no doubt more common than in the Midwest. But most Catholics here would claim to be Christian first and Catholic second. Yes the fact we don't have any real distinct ethnic communities at least amongst immigrants no doubt plays a role, the ethnic identity after all associated with this area is Scandinavian and Lutheran. There are some areas in central Minnesota that were so heavily German they had German-speaking minorities and often municipalities that required new laws and codes to be published in English and German up to as recently as the 60s, but those Germans are just as likely to be Protestant. Is someone who is something like 1/4 French, 1/4 Swedish, 1/4 Norwegian and 1/4 German and is raised Catholic going to see some type of unshakable Catholic ethnic identity on themselves?

So from what I've gathered people raised that way will likely identify as "Catholic" if they are still practicing, and as "none"/just "Christian" if they aren't. That's basically why I'm not a fan of this type of thing, I think it's kind of rude to people who do leave Catholicism and don't identify that way (lots here) but still have some insisting they are still Catholic in some way. My mom had some relatives (none of whom are still alive) who apparently threw a fit about her getting married in a Lutheran church and weren't really that happy with her even marrying a Lutheran at all...as noted though none are still alive and I can't imagine many people caring about that today. That type of thing is so common and uncontroversial today I wasn't even aware there might be people offended until I was an adult.

I would say probably not to this question... but honestly, seeing something like this in the Northeast is EXTREMELY rare.  3/4 German/Scandinavian?  That's rare enough up here as it is.  For them to be Catholic?  How would that happen?  (this is a question I'm actually directing towards myself, because I don't know... Bavarian I guess, but most German families here would have a hard time tracing to the region the family is from)

French/German. And yeah lots of people here are that mixed. My mom's side of the family is Swedish/German, so is my dad's (but both sides are Lutheran.) Only two out of the six siblings on my mom's side still identify as Catholic.

I am only painting a picture of the Northeast here, but you would also look to the Northeast to measure the attitude of an average American Catholic. 

No, it works in the upper midwest just as well.  My father was born and raised in northern Minnesota, and was one of eleven siblings.  They all self-identify as Catholics, even those who do not hold any particular religious beliefs and who never attend mass. 

Works that way in California, Texas, Iowa, and everywhere else.  Catholic (and Jew and a few others) is more of an ethno-religious identity, and not one that you might have chosen, given the choice.  Evangelical christian is something you choose, on the other hand.  It's purely a religion.

What ethnicity are we talking here? Also an eleven sibling family is obviously going to be quite a bit more traditional on this than some kids from a mixed marriage really casually Catholic family...

Here's the big issue I see with this line of thinking, if being Catholic is something you don't choose, and being an evangelical is something you do choose, then what is a Catholic who converts to evangelicalism? I mean you have 1/3 of people raised Catholic today who don't identify as such anymore (about half of whon have converted to something else, half of who simply identify as "none".) That's hardly a negligible number. My mom had no problem getting married in a Lutheran church and didn't raise her kids Catholic. It's kind of absurd to still label someone like that Catholic, especially if they don't.

I mean if people who are barely practicing want to still call themselves Catholic I guess they can (even though I have literally never met such a person in real life) and I understand the point that there is a difference between actually converting to something else and simply lapsing into non-practice, but can't anyone see the issue with still labeling someone a Catholic if they specifically don't want to be? And this applies to 1 in 3 people raised Catholic and 10% of the population, not some fringe number. Not every person raised Catholic is similar to how patrick described, or part of an ethnicity intrinsically tied to Catholicism, or so tied up in that ethnic identity they can't drop the religious one.

[patrick1]

Face it BRTD, you are half a Catholic and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. The men in the magenta robes control your mortal soul.  So relax my son. Take 10 Hail Marys and 10 Our fathers and call me in the morning.

[falling apart like the ashes of American flags]

Face it BRTD, you are half a Catholic and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. The men in the magenta robes control your mortal soul.  So relax my son. Take 10 Hail Marys and 10 Our fathers and call me in the morning.

Actually by that measure I'd be only 1/4 Catholic. Not that it matters.

[patrick1]

Face it BRTD, you are half a Catholic and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. The men in the magenta robes control your mortal soul.  So relax my son. Take 10 Hail Marys and 10 Our fathers and call me in the morning.

Actually by that measure I'd be only 1/4 Catholic. Not that it matters.

One drop rule brah. Get used to fish on Fridays.

[falling apart like the ashes of American flags]

On a more serious note, there is a primary reason why I hate the idea of an ethnoreligious identity: It is a violation on the freedom of the individual. It states that a person born into such a group is less free to choose their identity and practices than one born outside of one and can lead to ostracization and unfair pressure on someone who does not wish to partake in this religion or even any of the associated culture. Like most people would believe the parents of the kids in Jesus Camp but is bullying some family member over not having a Catholic wedding or marrying a non-Jew significantly different? (I mean yes it doesn't involve the type of sheltering and brainwashing on that level, but the general premise is the same, you are part of this group and you are not permitted to leave it regardless of your personal feelings.) If people want to voluntarily continue to associate with such a group despite not believing or following its practices anymore I suppose that's up to them, but it's not hard to also respect the wishes of those who don't want to associate with it anymore.

[angus]

What ethnicity are we talking here? Also an eleven sibling family is obviously going to be quite a bit more traditional on this than some kids from a mixed marriage really casually Catholic family...

Here's the big issue I see with this line of thinking, if being Catholic is something you don't choose, and being an evangelical is something you do choose, then what is a Catholic who converts to evangelicalism? I mean you have 1/3 of people raised Catholic today who don't identify as such anymore (about half of whon have converted to something else, half of who simply identify as "none".) That's hardly a negligible number. My mom had no problem getting married in a Lutheran church and didn't raise her kids Catholic. It's kind of absurd to still label someone like that Catholic, especially if they don't.

I mean if people who are barely practicing want to still call themselves Catholic I guess they can (even though I have literally never met such a person in real life) and I understand the point that there is a difference between actually converting to something else and simply lapsing into non-practice, but can't anyone see the issue with still labeling someone a Catholic if they specifically don't want to be? And this applies to 1 in 3 people raised Catholic and 10% of the population, not some fringe number. Not every person raised Catholic is similar to how patrick described, or part of an ethnicity intrinsically tied to Catholicism, or so tied up in that ethnic identity they can't drop the religious one.

A few things seem strange to me about your thinking.  First, you seem to think that a family with 11 siblings must be antithetical to the concept of mixed marriages.  This is demonstrably false.  In fact, each of my four grandparents were born in different countries.  Two of them migrated here with their families as children, and two came independently as adults.  Each couple met here.  Those eleven siblings on my father's side were in fact the product of a mixed marriage, and the same things is true on my mother's side, although in both cases the mixings were between various tribes of white people.  And not all were catholic.  On one side it was a fairly unobservant Roman Catholic marrying a fairly unobservant Jew, and on the other side it was a sort-of practicing Roman Catholic marrying a fairly unobservant Eastern Orthodox Catholic.  In both cases, the Roman Catholic identity seemed to have been dominant, and that's how the children were raised.  Moreover, among those 11 siblings in my father's side, only six married within the Americanized ethnicity group of either parent.  The other five married into some other tribe of white people.  Among their children, the grandchildren of my grandparents, the tribal mixing became even more exotic and distant.  As a result, I have first cousins who are black, Ojibwa (also called Chippewa in your part of the country), East Asian, hispanic, and Navajo.  Just a fine point, but I thought it should be made.

Secondly, Catholics who convert to Protestant are Protestant.  Anyone will tell you that.  I know folks who fit this description.  This doesn't contradict my original point.  I said being Catholic is something you are generally born with, so you don't choose it.  (You can choose it, of course.  Jews and Prots who marry Catholics sometimes do this, but it's a very formal process, taking a long time and lots of emotional energy and not so common I think.  It's not like becoming, say, a Muslim, where all you have to do is say something and really mean it.)  But syllogism doesn't mean that the reverse is true.  That is, a Catholic can choose to become a Protestant (or a Jew.  I know of one case in which a Catholic man maried a somewhat observant Jewish woman and converted.  You think becoming a catholic is a hassle?  Try becoming a Jew.  He said that they actually drew blood.  I'm assuming that he was serious.)  That convert makes a postitive action to revert away from Catholicism.  This would be the case in conversion to another religion, in the denunciation of Catholicism, and probably in many cases of forced excommunication by the church.  (Although I expect that some excommunicants will still consider themselves Catholic.)  In all cases of voluntary separation, your point is valid.  But you should not conflate voluntary, positive separation with a simple lack of observation, or a simple agnosticism by default.  The statistics back me up on this.  As I mentioned, in Spain, for example, 75% of the people self-identify as Catholic while at the same time 59% of Spaniards claim never to attend religious services.  Similar statistics hold for France.  Pick any society you want.  This idea that someone will self-identify as a Catholic while simultaneously answer "yes" to a pollster's question that he/she is skeptical about the existence of God and/or non-practicing of any religion is NOT limited to the Eastern United States.

Thirdly, I'm not trying to oversimplify.  Hockeydude's point about regional differences isn't without merit.  You can look at states where Catholics are a plurality among Christian denominations:  CA (31%), TX (29%), NJ (37%), etc., and you will find some trend.  Mostly it has to do with the fact that in the Southwest, those Catholics are often Hispanic.  More likely to have an Our Lady of Guadelupe candle on the mantle or a flaming crucifix tattooed on their back.  For them, just as with the New Jersey Catholics, the Catholicism is part of their ethnic identity, but they are more likely to actually practice the religion, whereas the New Jersey Catholics see Catholicism just as more of their (Irish-American or Italian-American or Polish-American) identity.  Still, the phenomenon among the non-hispanic Catholics in all these regions is the same with regards to seeing Catholicism as part of who they are, even if they don't practice.  Even among many Hispanics, this will be the case.  

[Robert California]

Being on the ground level of seeing people raised Catholic lose any semblance of their previous faith, no big surprise.

[falling apart like the ashes of American flags]

What ethnicity are we talking here? Also an eleven sibling family is obviously going to be quite a bit more traditional on this than some kids from a mixed marriage really casually Catholic family...

Here's the big issue I see with this line of thinking, if being Catholic is something you don't choose, and being an evangelical is something you do choose, then what is a Catholic who converts to evangelicalism? I mean you have 1/3 of people raised Catholic today who don't identify as such anymore (about half of whon have converted to something else, half of who simply identify as "none".) That's hardly a negligible number. My mom had no problem getting married in a Lutheran church and didn't raise her kids Catholic. It's kind of absurd to still label someone like that Catholic, especially if they don't.

I mean if people who are barely practicing want to still call themselves Catholic I guess they can (even though I have literally never met such a person in real life) and I understand the point that there is a difference between actually converting to something else and simply lapsing into non-practice, but can't anyone see the issue with still labeling someone a Catholic if they specifically don't want to be? And this applies to 1 in 3 people raised Catholic and 10% of the population, not some fringe number. Not every person raised Catholic is similar to how patrick described, or part of an ethnicity intrinsically tied to Catholicism, or so tied up in that ethnic identity they can't drop the religious one.

A few things seem strange to me about your thinking.  First, you seem to think that a family with 11 siblings must be antithetical to the concept of mixed marriages.  This is demonstrably false.  In fact, each of my four grandparents were born in different countries.  Two of them migrated here with their families as children, and two came independently as adults.  Each couple met here.  Those eleven siblings on my father's side were in fact the product of a mixed marriage, and the same things is true on my mother's side, although in both cases the mixings were between various tribes of white people.  And not all were catholic.  On one side it was a fairly unobservant Roman Catholic marrying a fairly unobservant Jew, and on the other side it was a sort-of practicing Roman Catholic marrying a fairly unobservant Eastern Orthodox Catholic.  In both cases, the Roman Catholic identity seemed to have been dominant, and that's how the children were raised.  Moreover, among those 11 siblings in my father's side, only six married within the Americanized ethnicity group of either parent.  The other five married into some other tribe of white people.  Among their children, the grandchildren of my grandparents, the tribal mixing became even more exotic and distant.  As a result, I have first cousins who are black, Ojibwa (also called Chippewa in your part of the country), East Asian, hispanic, and Navajo.  Just a fine point, but I thought it should be made.

Secondly, Catholics who convert to Protestant are Protestant.  Anyone will tell you that.  I know folks who fit this description.  This doesn't contradict my original point.  I said being Catholic is something you are generally born with, so you don't choose it.  (You can choose it, of course.  Jews and Prots who marry Catholics sometimes do this, but it's a very formal process, taking a long time and lots of emotional energy and not so common I think.  It's not like becoming, say, a Muslim, where all you have to do is say something and really mean it.)  But syllogism doesn't mean that the reverse is true.  That is, a Catholic can choose to become a Protestant (or a Jew.  I know of one case in which a Catholic man maried a somewhat observant Jewish woman and converted.  You think becoming a catholic is a hassle?  Try becoming a Jew.  He said that they actually drew blood.  I'm assuming that he was serious.)  That convert makes a postitive action to revert away from Catholicism.  This would be the case in conversion to another religion, in the denunciation of Catholicism, and probably in many cases of forced excommunication by the church.  (Although I expect that some excommunicants will still consider themselves Catholic.)  In all cases of voluntary separation, your point is valid.  But you should not conflate voluntary, positive separation with a simple lack of observation, or a simple agnosticism by default.  The statistics back me up on this.  As I mentioned, in Spain, for example, 75% of the people self-identify as Catholic while at the same time 59% of Spaniards claim never to attend religious services.  Similar statistics hold for France.  Pick any society you want.  This idea that someone will self-identify as a Catholic while simultaneously answer "yes" to a pollster's question that he/she is skeptical about the existence of God and/or non-practicing of any religion is NOT limited to the Eastern United States.

Thirdly, I'm not trying to oversimplify.  Hockeydude's point about regional differences isn't without merit.  You can look at states where Catholics are a plurality among Christian denominations:  CA (31%), TX (29%), NJ (37%), etc., and you will find some trend.  Mostly it has to do with the fact that in the Southwest, those Catholics are often Hispanic.  More likely to have an Our Lady of Guadelupe candle on the mantle or a flaming crucifix tattooed on their back.  For them, just as with the New Jersey Catholics, the Catholicism is part of their ethnic identity, but they are more likely to actually practice the religion, whereas the New Jersey Catholics see Catholicism just as more of their (Irish-American or Italian-American or Polish-American) identity.  Still, the phenomenon among the non-hispanic Catholics in all these regions is the same with regards to seeing Catholicism as part of who they are, even if they don't practice.  Even among many Hispanics, this will be the case.  

Alright that clarifies things a bit more. The reason I assumed this couldn't be a mixed marriage with eleven siblings is such large families usually aren't just casually Catholic. My main point is that the 2.5 kids from the household of ancestry of a bunch of mixed European ethnicities raised Catholic in stock middle class suburb #135913 aren't likely to consider themselves significantly different than the 2.5 kids from the household of ancestry of a bunch of mixed European ethnicities raised Protestant next door. And from my experience in mixed marriages that are Catholic/Protestant no matter what the kids are baptized in the Protestant side almost always wins out assuming either one does, I know this is purely anecdotal and I'm sure if I went to a Catholic parish I could find tons of counter-examples but it doesn't shock me that once someone finds out that they can still be Christian and be a part of a church that doesn't require all clergy to be celibate males or put lots of focus on guilt even if they only attend a few times when staying with one set of grandparents, it can really puncture the Catholic bubble patrick was describing earlier. And then there's what happens if they enter in a mixed marriage themselves. My mom asked herself if there was any reason for her to be Catholic when there was all this baggage in the church she disagree with and most of it was absent from the church of the guy she was marrying, and realized there wasn't.

Here's the big thing with your later bit though, to continue to identify as Catholic is a choice. So yes Catholic identity is a choice, it might not necessarily be based only on adherence to Catholic doctrine, but a person does CHOOSE to not convert to something else and does CHOOSE to check "Catholic" instead of "None" on some survey (or Census in a non-US country.) So Catholicism is not something equivalent to the tattoos you describe, unshakable and irrevocable. Sure some folks might continue to identify as such even if they don't really have much in common with the church anymore. But 1 in 3 people raised Catholic still don't. So opting not to is not some uncommon or absurd thing.