France or USA

[bgwah]

If I was a poor worker with no chance of becoming rich, France. I would start Americatown and sell hot dogs and hamburgers. Yay!!!

[opebo]

USA

Opebo, since 60% of American are in the stock market, its absurd to claim that being ordinary requires you not to have capital.  Actually, in America, not having capital makes you the minority.

Hah, incredibly dubious statistics there.  But seriously, nearly all stocks are held by the top few percent of the population.  Just because some poor working stiffs keep their meager retirement savings in stocks doesn't change the class differential. 

The bottom 90% or more of the population, who depends upon their wages for existence, and not income from return on capital, is better off in France than the US.

This may be foolish on my part but I'm going to ignore John Ford's admonishment to not talk to you, and ask how you arrived at that conclusion.

Well, primarily because of higher wage rates required by unions and governmental regulation, coupled with medical care - something most 'working poor' do not have in the US.  Also in case of unemployment, a more generous social safety net. 

I mean really, imagine yourself as the typical working stiff down at Walmart or some chain restaurant - could it be any worse?

[David S]

What are the wage rates in France and what are you using for  a wage rate in the US?

Yeah you could be working for minimum wage here, but you don't have to. Automotive assembly line workers make excellent pay and their benefits are as good as any in the nation, better than most white collar workers. Its hard work but the compensation is great.

A friend of mine was a mechanic in a test lab for one of the big three. They make better pay than the line workers, get the same benefits and don't work nearly as hard. He was able to retire at about age 52 with a great retirement package from the company. Plus he was a diligent investor and made somewhere in the neighborhood of $2 million on his investments. Smart man!   

In America success is not guaranteed. But if you work hard and invest your money you can do very well. I can name many other success stories.

Having said that, I also have to add that the future for unskilled workers does not look so bright. Competition with China and Mexico is driving wages down. (Thank Slick Willie for that.) However, if you were to force higher wages here, or in France, you would make those workers even more uncompetitive.

[opebo]

What are the wage rates in France and what are you using for  a wage rate in the US?

Yeah you could be working for minimum wage here, but you don't have to. Automotive assembly line workers make excellent pay and their benefits are as good as any in the nation, better than most white collar workers. Its hard work but the compensation is great.

A friend of mine was a mechanic in a test lab for one of the big three. They make better pay than the line workers, get the same benefits and don't work nearly as hard. He was able to retire at about age 52 with a great retirement package from the company. Plus he was a diligent investor and made somewhere in the neighborhood of $2 million on his investments. Smart man!   

In America success is not guaranteed. But if you work hard and invest your money you can do very well. I can name many other success stories.

You're offering anecdotal evidence.  Just because there are a few jobs left that are unionized and therefore pay well, doesn't change the dire situation of most workers. 

Similarly, the connection between 'hard work' and 'success' is always illustrated with anecdotes - the classic Horatio Alger story.  A better determination of the real situation is wage level, measures of inequality, and social mobility.  In all these areas, the majority of Americans are getting poorer and less able to improve their situation.  Check out this great recent Economist article on the subject:
http://www.economist.com/world/na/displayStory.cfm?story_id=3518560