WI-Sen: Marquette: Thompson leading Baldwin by 8

[Miles]

Haha? Isn't that the line they used against Scott Walker? Divisive politics?

You should know a lot about divisive politics as you attempt it on a daily basis here.

Based on the Scott Walker example the people of Wiscsonsin prefer divisive politics to Dane County. I wonder how crying about divisive politics is supposed to work this time.

Except that wasn't the point I was trying to make...

Well, the article in question was certainly not about me. I am just a humble private sector citizen and am certainly not capable of something as spectacular as divisive politics.

I think we'll be the judges of that.

[AmericanNation]

She certainly wants to run against the guy who called her a Commie. :rolleyes:

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/senate-races/234349-wisconsin-senate-candidate-calls-rep-tammy-baldwin-a-communist

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I don't think it's wise politically, but is anything incorrect in that statement? Hint: the answer is no. 

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

She certainly wants to run against the guy who called her a Commie. :rolleyes:

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/senate-races/234349-wisconsin-senate-candidate-calls-rep-tammy-baldwin-a-communist

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I don't think it's wise politically, but is anything incorrect in that statement? Hint: the answer is no. 

Somehow I doubt Tammy Baldwin's philosophy has its roots in Marxism, unless we're defining 'roots' so extensively as to imply that Hovde's philosophy would have comparable routes in the comte de Maistre. Hint: American leftism has historically emphasized coopting the interests of people who would otherwise be Marxists into a left-liberal or tepidly social-democratic policy program.

[AmericanNation]

She certainly wants to run against the guy who called her a Commie. :rolleyes:

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/senate-races/234349-wisconsin-senate-candidate-calls-rep-tammy-baldwin-a-communist

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I don't think it's wise politically, but is anything incorrect in that statement? Hint: the answer is no. 

Somehow I doubt Tammy Baldwin's philosophy has its roots in Marxism, unless we're defining 'roots' so extensively as to imply that Hovde's philosophy would have comparable routes in the comte de Maistre. Hint: American leftism has historically emphasized coopting the interests of people who would otherwise be Marxists into a left-liberal or tepidly social-democratic policy program.

well yea, by "roots" I think you can ignore some elements and focus on others.  For instance: Redistribution-ism and class warfare are common to both Marxism and Tammy Baldwin.   

[Tender Branson]

I think Hovde has a decent chance to beat Thompson in the primary. A recent internal shows a close race, with Hovde only slightly behind. And there's still 1 month to go. If Hovde wins, this race is much more competetive for Baldwin.

[AmericanNation]

I think Hovde has a decent chance to beat Thompson in the primary. A recent internal shows a close race, with Hovde only slightly behind. And there's still 1 month to go. If Hovde wins, this race is much more competetive for Baldwin.

If Hovde wins the primary, than he will dump something like 10-to-15-to-20 million in the general race, which is 2.5(?) months long.  It might be closer in some ways, but that kind of move erases a lot of flaws.  Neumann would probably dump in up to 10 million.       

[Lief 🗽]

She certainly wants to run against the guy who called her a Commie. :rolleyes:

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/senate-races/234349-wisconsin-senate-candidate-calls-rep-tammy-baldwin-a-communist

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I don't think it's wise politically, but is anything incorrect in that statement? Hint: the answer is no. 

Somehow I doubt Tammy Baldwin's philosophy has its roots in Marxism, unless we're defining 'roots' so extensively as to imply that Hovde's philosophy would have comparable routes in the comte de Maistre. Hint: American leftism has historically emphasized coopting the interests of people who would otherwise be Marxists into a left-liberal or tepidly social-democratic policy program.

well yea, by "roots" I think you can ignore some elements and focus on others.  For instance: Redistribution-ism and class warfare are common to both Marxism and Tammy Baldwin.   

There are a lot of things "common to both" Nazism and this Hovde fellow's ideology. Is it fair to say he has his roots in Nazism? No, of course not.

[AmericanNation]

She certainly wants to run against the guy who called her a Commie. :rolleyes:

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/senate-races/234349-wisconsin-senate-candidate-calls-rep-tammy-baldwin-a-communist

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I don't think it's wise politically, but is anything incorrect in that statement? Hint: the answer is no. 

Somehow I doubt Tammy Baldwin's philosophy has its roots in Marxism, unless we're defining 'roots' so extensively as to imply that Hovde's philosophy would have comparable routes in the comte de Maistre. Hint: American leftism has historically emphasized coopting the interests of people who would otherwise be Marxists into a left-liberal or tepidly social-democratic policy program.

well yea, by "roots" I think you can ignore some elements and focus on others.  For instance: Redistribution-ism and class warfare are common to both Marxism and Tammy Baldwin.   

There are a lot of things "common to both" Nazism and this Hovde fellow's ideology. Is it fair to say he has his roots in Nazism? No, of course not.

Except you have zero examples and obviously Baldwin would be much closer to a Nazi than Hovde.  Baldwin has acknowledged her far left positions publicly for many years.  You could argue the 'roots' are in European socialism, but that is splitting hairs in a casual conversation-- which allows slight exaggerations in definitions.  It is easier to say Marxist, than it is to say European style-quasi socialist-with a few democrat party traditions.  From a traditional American's perspective their isn't a gigantic or important difference there.             

[7,052,770]

and obviously Baldwin would be much closer to a Nazi than Hovde.

Obviously.

[AmericanNation]

and obviously Baldwin would be much closer to a Nazi than Hovde.

Obviously.

I shouldn't respond, but yes obviously (to someone that knows what they're talking about anyway).  Most people know shockingly little about the progressive movement, Nazis or both.  FYI, I didn't say the worst aspects of Nazism, which is all most people know about and thus associate with every aspect.  The movements are cousins of the same era without question.  Rivals for the same turf often hate each other (sometimes they cooperate).  The American left was the friend of German socialists until German interests conflicted with the British and than finally the Russian socialists.  Coincidentally their is mountains of hard evidence supporting this in Madison, Wisconsin (Tammy Baldwins hometown).  Tammy Baldwin is a self proclaimed progressive.  Whether you like it or not, progressives are much much closer to National Socialism than a free market conservative (which can't get much farther away).  Perhaps consult the horseshoe theory or a scientific political spectrum

 
Hovde is probably near Ronald Reagan (his dad served in his administration) and Baldwin is probably somewhere near FDR.  ...hmm "obviously, LOL."     

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Note: 2-D political diagrams mean little, especially in reference to a third-way ideology such as fascism.

[Joe Republic]

their is mountains of hard evidence   

Well, I'm convinced!

[AmericanNation]

     Note: 2-D political diagrams mean little, especially in reference to a third-way ideology such as fascism.

They aren't everything, but cross referencing 10 different axis combinations definitely has value.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Note: 2-D political diagrams mean little, especially in reference to a third-way ideology such as fascism.

They aren't everything, but cross referencing 10 different axis combinations definitely has value.

     They generally oversimplify reality by ignoring motivations for supporting policy positions. I remember one question on the Political Matrix test that asked about views on immigrations. This one stuck out to me in particular because it was unique in affecting both the economic & social axes. Opposing immigration made one more right-wing in both and supporting it made one more left-wing in both.

     Problem is, motivations can be far more complicated. You might oppose immigration because you're a protectionist, which is economically leftist (though it was a big business position in the 1800s). On the other hand, you might support legal immigration as a pretext to a push for unrestricted free trade, which would probably be seen as a right-wing point of view.

     Point being, the traditional 2-D political tests make assumptions about why people support the positions that they do. These assumptions largely make sense for typical American voters, but fail miserably when applied to ideologies outside of the mainstream, such as fascism.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

The idea that to the 'traditional American' the difference between Marxism-Leninism and Anglo-American-style tepid social democracy isn't 'gigantic or important' is one of the worst things I've ever heard about American politics and public life.

[AmericanNation]

The idea that to the 'traditional American' the difference between Marxism-Leninism and Anglo-American-style tepid social democracy isn't 'gigantic or important' is one of the worst things I've ever heard about American politics and public life.

The democrat party is influenced by Marxism.  It tries to co-opt it into the American democratic tradition.  There's obvious problems with that.  Traditional Americans see the influence and call it what it is.  ...This isn't exactly rocket science, you're just really defensive and paranoid about it.

On the gay front, it is a huge political advantage. 
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/309527/pretending-be-gay-now-actual-campaign-strategy-christian-schneider   
   

[Ichabod]

The idea that to the 'traditional American' the difference between Marxism-Leninism and Anglo-American-style tepid social democracy isn't 'gigantic or important' is one of the worst things I've ever heard about American politics and public life.

The democratic party is influenced by Marxism

This is clearly not true. In many countries, Democratic Party wouldn't be even a left-wing party.

[krazen1211]

The idea that to the 'traditional American' the difference between Marxism-Leninism and Anglo-American-style tepid social democracy isn't 'gigantic or important' is one of the worst things I've ever heard about American politics and public life.

The democrat party is influenced by Marxism.  It tries to co-opt it into the American democratic tradition.  There's obvious problems with that.  Traditional Americans see the influence and call it what it is.  ...This isn't exactly rocket science, you're just really defensive and paranoid about it.

On the gay front, it is a huge political advantage. 
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/309527/pretending-be-gay-now-actual-campaign-strategy-christian-schneider   
   

Well, perhaps in a Democratic primary. In the general election in 2010 in Dane County it was quite obviously a disadvantage.

[Lief 🗽]

Anyone who thinks the Democratic Party or American liberalism has ideological roots in Marxism is an ignorant, full stop.

[freepcrusher]

The idea that to the 'traditional American' the difference between Marxism-Leninism and Anglo-American-style tepid social democracy isn't 'gigantic or important' is one of the worst things I've ever heard about American politics and public life.

The democrat party is influenced by Marxism.  It tries to co-opt it into the American democratic tradition.  There's obvious problems with that.  Traditional Americans see the influence and call it what it is.  ...This isn't exactly rocket science, you're just really defensive and paranoid about it.

On the gay front, it is a huge political advantage. 
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/309527/pretending-be-gay-now-actual-campaign-strategy-christian-schneider   
   

you clearly don't know much world history. Both parties are essentially "classical liberalism" with the main difference being on how it should be carried out. Obviously guys like Chris Dodd or Max Baucus are supporters and beneficiaries of the capital system as they have plenty of connections to the business world.

[AmericanNation]

you clearly don't know much world history. Both parties are essentially "classical liberalism" with the main difference being on how it should be carried out. Obviously guys like Chris Dodd or Max Baucus are supporters and beneficiaries of the capital system as they have plenty of connections to the business world.

LOL.  I hesitate to play the college degree card, even though you're baiting me into it. 

Anyone who thinks the Democratic Party or American liberalism has ideological roots in Marxism is an ignorant, full stop.

The influence of Marx on democrats is undeniable.  Some more than others.  Stop trying to make that statement into something else and than call me stupid for telling a blatantly obvious truth. 

[Ichabod]

Well, I'm not American so I'm maybe forgetting something, but for me, it's pretty clear that Democratic Party has no influence from Marxism. Even IIRC, some of the most anti-communist people during the Cold War were Democracts (Larry McDonald, Scoop Jackson).

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

As a Cuban-American whose parents knew real communism, I'm gonna go ahead and call bullshit on Democrats being Marx-influenced.

[AmericanNation]

Well, I'm not American so I'm maybe forgetting something, but for me, it's pretty clear that Democratic Party has no influence from Marxism. Even IIRC, some of the most anti-communist people during the Cold War were Democracts (Larry McDonald, Scoop Jackson).

As a Cuban-American whose parents knew real communism, I'm gonna go ahead and call bullshit on Democrats being Marx-influenced.

I'll take the bait on this one.  My great-grandfather was murdered by communists.   

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

The Democratic Party has about as much influence from Marxism as the Republican Party has from Nazism.

Both are ridiculously childish claims.