The Official Star Trek Thread

[politicallefty]

I've gone all of my 26 (and very soon to be 27) years without giving Star Trek much thought. For some reason, a couple weeks ago, I decided to start watching Star Trek: TNG from the beginning on Netflix. Right now, I'm very close to the end of season 2. I've so fallen in love with it that it's all I'm currently really watching, not that there's much to watch this time of year. I've seen episodes here and there in passing, but this is the first time I've really given the show a real chance. I've always wanted to sit down and watch the show and I finally have. I'll probably end up venturing into the other series, most likely DS9 next.

From what I've seen so far, these are what I think have been the best episodes (limiting myself to five or so, with asterisks for my favourites from each):

Season1
The Last Outpost
Where No One Has Gone Before
Home Soil
Skin of Evil (mainly for the very shocking death)
Conspiracy*
The Neutral Zone

Season 2
Where Silence Has Lease
The Measure of a Man
Contagion
Time Squared
Q Who*

Q Who was among the creepiest episodes with the introduction of the Borg (and probably the best episode I've seen as of yet).


Season 3
The Defector
Yesterday's Enterprise
Sins of the Father
Sarek
The Best of Both Worlds* (I&II)

Season 4
Remember Me*
Reunion
Future Imperfect
Clues
Night Terrors
The Drumhead
The Mind's Eye
Redemption (I&II)

Season 5
Darmok
Disaster
Conundrum
Cause and Effect*
I, Borg*
The Next Phase
The Inner Light

Season 6
Schisms*
Chain of Command (I&II)
Face of the Enemy
Tapestry
Frame of Mind
Timescape
Descent, Part I

Season 7
Phantasms
Attached
Parallels
(Genesis (guilty pleasure))
All Good Things...*

[politicallefty]

Yep, I assume you have never seen the movie "First Contact" yet then ?

Nope. I've never seen any of the movies. I'll get there, but I like to watch things in the proper order.

I think you'll enjoy Season 3 and beyond a lot. Wait till "The Best of Both Worlds."

Yeah, I'm almost there, and looking forward to it. I've heard very good things. I just finished S3E19 (Captain's Holiday, which I think is definitely one of the weakest episodes of the season).

What's the point of Star Trek if you're not going to watch TOS?

I'm sure I'll get there eventually. It's just not a priority. My biggest concern with TOS is that it might feel dated and I'm not sure how I'll like it, though I'll absolutely give it a chance.

In any event, I'm still just sticking with TNG right now (and from I've read, DS9 seems to be the best to go to after that). Voyager seems to have mixed reviews, and Enterprise sounds like something to avoided altogether.

Speaking of this, does anyone know where I could find TNG to stream? The ideal for me would be English with English subtitles, but English with French or Italian subtitles would work as well.

Anyone?

Netflix has all the Star Trek series with subtitles, but I don't know if you can get it where you are. I really don't know what your streaming options are. Maybe there's some way you can get the DVDs?

[politicallefty]

I think you'll enjoy Season 3 and beyond a lot. Wait till "The Best of Both Worlds."

I'm working on Season 4 now, so yes, I did see that two-parter. That's as good as it gets, particularly the last couple minutes of Part I. It definitely lived up to expectations.

[politicallefty]

One of my favorite 4th season shows is "Remember Me." It proved that McFadden could indeed act, because if anyone had been unfairly criticized, she had been (Maurice Hurley drummed her out at the close of the 1st season, and when Hurley left or was pushed out himself the first thing they did was bring her back). She did nearly 40% of the script alone and did all her own stunts in "Remember Me."

Yeah, that's definitely been one of the best episodes of the season, where she definitely shined. It seems she's really been developing as a character on her own in Season 4, which was lacking in S1 and sub-par in S3. It's very obvious now that that was a result of the writing. (I did think that was odd because Pulaski in S2 seemed to have developed much faster in just her one season. And don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of both CMOs.)

As for where I'm at in the series right now, the last episode I watched was Night Terrors (Episode 17), which I thought was a pretty good episode. As noted above, Remember Me was an excellent episode. Reunion was another really good one as well. You'd have a really hard time not sympathizing with Worf in that one.

[politicallefty]

Wesley is sometimes naive though, for example in that episode about that virtual-reality game which Riker brings back from Risa and Wesley says: "Why would anyone take drugs ? I don't understand this."

It was even more forced in Season 1's Symbiosis, if you can recall the scene between Yar and Wesley. You have to keep in mind that that was at the height of the "Just Say No" era. (I'd say the message was apparent in The Naked Now as well.)

Have you hit the end of Season 4? If not, you're in for an interesting surprise.

Even including Locutus, for me that probably ranks at the top as far as shocking twists go.

I've finished season 1, and I quite liked it.

I'm glad you've started watching and enjoying the show. You don't have to worry about character development; that'll happen over time. Tasha Yar was written out of the show because the actress who player her (Denise Crosby) wanted to quit the show. Season 2 will have some considerable changes: Riker's appearance, Ten-Forward, and the introduction of Dr. Pulaski and Guinan (the latter played excellently by Whoopi Goldberg). Just wait until you get to Q Who.


I've revised my original post, so it now shows my top picks for every episode I've seen thus far. I'm about 2/3 of the way through Season 6. From what I've seen, the show hasn't faltered at all. Sure, there are the occasional lackluster episodes, but they're far outweighed by the great ones and fantastic acting. One thing that's really stuck out to me is how amazingly good the Romulan episodes have been throughout the entire series.

My favourites for Season 5 are pretty explanatory overall. I did notably leave off Unification, mostly because the ending in the second part just didn't work for me. However, I don't have to have seen TOS to appreciate having Spock in an episode of TNG. It was enjoyable to see Spock, not to mention the setting being on Romulus (and seeing Picard and Data in their disguises). I, Borg is up there among the best and most powerful episodes of the series. The fact that they managed to make a Borg likable is downright scary!

For Season 6, Chain of Command was really something else. The scenes of Picard's imprisonment and the dialogue between him and his Cardassian captor make for great, but disturbing television. (On a lighter note, it seems to be at this point that the writers started treating Counselor Troi seriously by finally giving her a Starfleet uniform, which leads to my next my point.) Troi's performance as a Romulan Tal Shiar in Face of the Enemy was just perfect, a clear example of where writing and acting talent met for great results. I loved this scene where she actually takes command of the Warbird. So far, I think it's my favourite episode from S6.

[politicallefty]

Lefty: You're already to "Chain of Command," great. That and "The Outcast" are about as heavy as TNG gets. Lore will return one last time for his coda soon. Won't spoil anything, though, but it's pretty fun with a lot of action. Season 7 has a lot of weird episodes ("Sub Rosa" being tops), but your point about the writing improving shows in "Dark Page." Troi's mother is finally treated seriously!

Your last point isn't entirely accurate. I thought Lwaxana Troi was a very sympathetic character in Half a Life.

The Outcast actually did surprise me, as TNG has seemed to avoid the issues of sexual identity (or orientation, for that matter). While I found it to be a good episode, I can't say I liked the end result. It did some justice for sexual minorities, but I found the idea that the "therapy" was successful to be quite disturbing. I've read that Jonathan Frakes wanted Soren to be played by a male. That certainly would've made for a more interesting episode. I'll give the show a lot of credit for covering moral issues, but there was a lot of cowardice in its avoidance of LGBT issues. (The Host was another episode that basically failed in that regard. Yes, Dr. Crusher is straight and I wouldn't change that. However, they could have put more time and thought into the aftereffects. That episode pretty much ended when Odan had a new female body. It was definitely a lackluster ending that could've been a lot better.)

[politicallefty]

I know this is a bump, but I thought it's worth acknowledging that I've finished TNG in terms of the series (and I've altered my original post accordingly). I've also seen three of the four movies, with the exception being Generations.

First Contact was a great movie, period. The Borg worked as a perfect villain and the ending with the actual first contact was awesome. I loved almost every minute of it. The only issue I had with the movie was the introduction of the Borg Queen. Although she was a good plot point for the movie, I felt that was a terrible decision in the larger scheme of things. To me, the Borg should not have a leader, as it is a hive mentality (I'll give a pass for Locutus, as he was meant to be humanity's introduction to the Borg).

Insurrection was an okay movie, but it could've been just as fine as a two-part episode. I really don't have much to say about it. As for Nemesis, I felt it could be so much better than it was. I didn't mind seeing what TNG could become with a super-massive budget, but the plot just failed. It could've been great, but it just wasn't meant to be.

Finishing the series, I'm divided as the best season (though I have no doubt 4-6 are the best). I'm torn between 4 and 6, but I'm probably biased towards the latter. I do think those are the best seasons, but Season 6 had a certain darkness to its better episodes that I really liked. That's why I chose Schisms as my favourite episode from that season, although Frame of Mind and Timescape were close second choices. They were pretty much full of very enjoyable mindf-cks. The season did end quite well with a Borg episode, but it didn't quite follow through with the second part.

As for Season 7, the episodes were really quite erratic. There were obvious great ones, such as Parallels and the finale All Good Things.... On the other hand, there were some lesser episodes that nonetheless ended up quite good. Attached worked very well in establishing the relationship between Captain Picard and Doctor Crusher, although it might have worked better in an earlier season. I know a lot of people don't like Genesis, but I thought it was pretty enjoyable as an episode in and of itself. The series finale was very good on its own and would have been satisfying on its own were it not for the last movie. There was a certain plot point that I strongly object to most of the way through the movie.

Going forward, I decided to watch the pilots for both DS9 and Voyager. To be honest, neither appealed to me in any strong way. DS9 seems to have the overall stronger cast, but Voyager has a stronger leader in Captain Janeway (who I really liked) despite an overall weaker cast. The DS9 pilot really rubbed me the wrong way with the interaction between Picard and Sisko. (I was excited to see Patrick Stewart as a a guest star, but I felt it was a real blown opportunity when I saw the result.) I did like the intro with the Battle of Wolf 359, but as I said, I really resent the way Captain Picard was treated in the intro to DS9. At this point, I'm strongly considering going towards Voyager over DS9.

[politicallefty]

Though if you really are married to the TNG structure I can see how Voyager would immediately strike you as more interesting, since Voyager tried so hard to ape TNG's mojo (so hard, I would argue, that it damages the show's potential super hard) and generally has an episode-to-episode structure just like it.

For me, that just was not the way to get me interesting in the show. Going into any other series, I don't have the expectation that anything will be as good as TNG, so maybe my expectations are set different from others. A few episodes into each, I do like Voyager better than DS9. I feel like the premise is set closer to that of TNG's, which is what I'm looking for right now. I'm not understanding the hatred a lot of people have for it.

I do intend to get around the entire series over time, though I don't necessarily have to watch one chunk at a time. Incidentally, I was watching some clips of TOS last night. Before, I'd thought it might have been too dated (and it certainly is to certain extent), but it does seem a lot more appealing now that I've seen some. I watched TNG all the way through without watching any of the other series. Perhaps, now, I might just jump around a bit between series. (Of course, that'll end up taking a lot more time to finish.)

Well, I just finished season 2, so it seems like the -real- stuff is about to begin.

Besides a few good episodes like "Q who", the season's ending was pretty dull. The last episode in particular was an utter mockery. It's easy to see they had to rush in to complete it.

Q Who is easily the best episode from season 2 and one of the best of entire show. But yes, you're getting into the really good stuff now. You're going to love the finale for season 3 (and premiere for season 4), which I think many people consider to be the best episode(s) of the entire series. Patrick Stewart is amazing and it really is no coincidence that most of the episodes considered the best are centred around Captain Picard.

I'd also say not to discount Insurrection. The title is overly dramatic for the content and oversells it, but it was enjoyable. Even if you're not going for completion, I'd still say to watch it, but wait until you've finished the regular series.

Really, I think it revealed that the problem in Season One with Dr. Crusher was that she was written way too simplistically (they way overdid the sexual tension between her and the Captain).  It seems like once they gave Gates McFadden  something to work with she was able to turn Dr. Crusher into one of the moral pillars of the crew (if that is an appropriate phrase to use here) as opposed to just a random late thirties/early forties female doctor who was thrown into the show just to serve as the captain's love interest.

I couldn't agree more. Remember Me is one of my personal favourites from season 4 and her performance was great. I think you can really see one's talent when you centre an episode such as that around one person. I was also a big fan of Attached from season 7, particularly for the scenes with Captain Picard and Dr. Crusher. That was clearly the kind of episode that showed how the show matured from its first season, as that episode would have been radically different and no doubt much worse if it were in season 1.

[politicallefty]

Yeah, those episodes you mention were all excellent. Glad to see Worf will have a chance to get his (and hopefully his father's) honor back eventually - but please don't say more about that.

I don't want to give anything away, but I have a feeling you're really going to like Season 4's Reunion. Now that you're into Season 4, the show does seem to be far more serious and it gets better as a result. And now that you've seen TBBW, for me the final scene stuck out so much. It's the final part of Part II where they play some pretty somber music while Picard sets his tea down and stares out at Earth. To me, that's one of the more subtle, yet most powerful scenes in the show. I've always thought that ending brings an otherwise happy ending into real context of what really just happened.

[politicallefty]

Personally, I've only seen three Star Trek moves (the TNG movies except Generations). I've always figured that it's be better to see the TOS movies after actually watching TOS. I haven't reached that point yet.

Fwiw, I think it's worth mentioning where I'm at in watching Star Trek. Obviously, as I've already mentioned, I've seen all of TNG and three of the four TNG movies. Despite what I said a few months ago, I went from TNG to Voyager. I've watched about 100 episodes of VOY at this point. I do agree with many that the writing isn't quite up to TNG levels in the early seasons. I actually really like Captain Janeway and I think Kate Mulgrew is a great actress in the role. However, the flaw in the writing I see is that they really weren't sure where they wanted to take her in the early seasons (which at first seemed to be a female Picard). Once you get into late Season 3 and into Season 4, I think the writing gets much better. From what I've watched, episodes like Scorpion and Year of Hell really stand out as some of the best. I think it's fair to say that Voyager has its flaws, but I really think it is quite underrated. (And I think, to a certain extent, a lot has to do with the type of Star Trek episodes you like as a person.)

[politicallefty]

Mulgrew is a phenomenal actress, but her characterization is pretty all over the place for a long time. I remember her talking a lot about this in recent years; the producers of the show kept her performance under an incredibly close eye and she was basically constantly fighting with the writers over how Janeway was portrayed. Notice how her hair styles constantly change? She used to be infuriated by how often the producers kept altering her appearance. By Season 4 they were finally letting her have more control and the writing for most of the characters in general was a lot more even.

I'm in almost total agreement with you. However, I always thought Mulgrew's portrayal of Janeway in the early seasons was a result of the writing. The writers didn't know what to do with her, but she always played the role she was written spectacularly. I agree that it wasn't until Season 4 that Captain Janeway's personalty and command style became clear. And yeah, I did notice the seasonal changes with her hair style.

From what I've read (and to the credit of the writers), they wanted a whole season for Year of Hell. Personally, I think that would have worked great. But, unfortunately, the network executives killed the idea. The only credit I've give to the network was the introduction of Seven of Nine. She was obviously supposed to be the new sex appeal object, but she never let herself fall into that caricature. Something definitely changed when Season 4 started (which I think is the best season I've seen in its entirety).

[politicallefty]

Love it, love it, love it. I started watching TNG a bit less than two years ago on Netflix. I started a topic here some time ago. I hope you find it and add your thoughts. I'm thinking about reviving it. Anyway, after I finished TNG, I sampled Voyager and DS9 at the same time. I found Voyager far to my liking after watching TNG, so I went that route. If there's anyone that could stand beside Captain Picard, it's Captain Janeway. A few months ago, I strayed into DS9 and TOS. Maybe it's because I didn't grow up back then, but while some episodes were quite good overall, others had issues due to being quite dated. As for DS9, it took me some time to get over the disrespect they gave to Captain Picard in Emissary. But I watched more and eventually got over it. I always try to stay close to the story line, but I did jump around a bit. I have to say that DS9's Trials and Tribble-ations is one of my favourites, especially since I say the original prior. I haven't touched Enterprise at all right now, but I will say that my favourite pilot episode among them all is Voyager's Caretaker.

[politicallefty]

I think it depends on what you like. Try out TOS and TNG for a couple episodes each. If you don't find TOS too dated, you might want to start with that. Otherwise, I strongly recommend starting with TNG. After you've finished TNG, either go back to TOS and watch the TOS moves afterwards or just move the TNG movies. There is very limited continuity among the TNG movies. As for what to watch after TNG, I'd recommend trying out both DS9 and VOY. After finishing TNG, I found myself far more drawn to VOY. It's more TNG-based and I'm also a big fan of Kate Mulgrew's portrayal of Captain Janeway. I didn't initially like DS9 myself, due in no small part to the way they treated Captain Picard. As I've begun finishing VOY, I've given DS9 a second chance and I've definitely enjoyed it.

If you like TOS and what it has to offer, I'd say just watch everything in order of air date. See here for order by original air date. I started watching Star Trek in 2014 and I've seen all of TNG and its movies, almost all of Voyager, the majority of DS9, and some of TOS. I have yet to see the TOS movies, most of TOS, TAS, or ENT, so I can't comment on those.

[politicallefty]

I've been watching some of the Original Series on BBC America over the past couple days. I've already seen a number of TOS episodes on Netflix, although I kind of picked and chose. Sometimes it's really great, but other episodes really show their age.

As for the new series, it sounds a lot more interesting now I know it won't be set in the rebooted universe (I have no interest whatsoever in the rebooted movies). Still, it's another prequel series like Enterprise that invites way too much retcon. They probably should have set it either midway between TOS and TNG or in the 25th century (at least 20+ years after the TNG/DS9/VOY Era).

[politicallefty]

I'm holding out hope that some day they'll make reboot movies for TNG. There's definitely room for expansion of that universe and characters. Picard, Data and Worf are excellent characters, and the Borg are one of the best concept for a villain ever.

[SPOILERS]

First Contact is probably the only TNG movie I can say I really loved. Even with that one though, I thought the introduction of the Borg Queen was a big misstep in terms of developing the Borg. Granted, she was well-played in both the movie and Voyager, but I thought she was too much a separate villain apart from the Borg. The Borg is scary because they are a collective mind, without a leader with which to negotiate. Other than that, I loved the movie.

Generations had several faults that prevent it from being great. They almost went for shock value whenever they could. They killed off Captain Picard's family in the beginning, had the Enterprise D destroyed by a single Klingon Bird-of-Prey, and flippantly killed off Captain Kirk. Insurrection wasn't bad as a plot, but I think it could have easily been a two-parter during the show's original run. I don't know what to say about Nemesis. It left me unmoved, other than my hatred of the ending.

I don't want to see a reboot of the TNG movies. There is no one that can play Captain Picard other than the great Sir Patrick Stewart. Just as having TNG take place decades after TOS, I think they should have a new series that takes place a couple decades after TNG (and its progeny, DS9 and Voyager). Despite the general peace at the end, there would be future possibilities for the Borg and the Dominion. Neither were major threats to the Federation at the end of the 2370s, but their capabilities were not destroyed. The Borg was as strong as ever in the Delta Quadrant and the Dominion was as strong as ever in the Gamma Quadrant. All that changed was that the Dominion negotiated peace and the Borg was prevented from easily moving into the Alpha Quadrant.

[politicallefty]

The Romulans are very good adversaries. The Dominion was also good but could have been better -- the Cardassians and the Female Changeling make great villains though.

To be fair, the Dominion wasn't a species, but I would definitely agree that the Founders and the Vorta were quite compelling. The Female Changeling really was quite terrifying, in this clip and with her later order basically carrying out what said.

In TNG, I really liked the Romulans as adversaries. And, of course, I've always liked the Borg (apart from the concept of the Borg Queen, despite how well she may have played in the show).

[politicallefty]

Extremely. Especially since it's set in the prime universe rather than the Abramsverse

I thought I posted to this topic before, but apparently not. I'm someone that's a strict fan of the Prime Universe. Not including TAS, I've probably seen between 90-95% of all Star Trek episodes over the past three years. After the election in November, I decided to immerse myself in ENT, which I had never watched. It had its faults, but it really picked up steam in its last season. It's a shame we couldn't have had 7 seasons of Enterprise to see the Romulan War and the formation and founding of the Federation.

To be honest, I'd rather the next series continue beyond the TNG/DS9/VOY years, but I'll take what I can get.

[politicallefty]

I've only watched the first four episodes and I'm really not impressed. (I stopped because I don't feel compelled right now to watch anything further.) It doesn't feel like Star Trek at all. This is not even close to any previous portrayal of the Federation. It's far too dark and without hope and the Klingon redesign is outright annoying. They sound like they're talking with a mouth full of food or something.

[politicallefty]

I have extremely high hopes and expectations.

Me too.

But the problem is that CBS All Access is in charge of producing the series and with them basically the "Discovery" producers as well, which doesn't bode well.

"Discovery" has been a big disappointment for TNG/80s/90s Star Trek fans like me.

That’s actually the reason my hopes and expectiations are so low. We seem to have a similar taste in Star Trek overall. I tried to like Discovery and I just don’t. I even ended up liking Enterprise (especially Season 4). If it wasn’t for Discovery, my hopes and general excitement would be so much higher. I’d love to see the Federation as it enters the 25th century.

[politicallefty]

I really enjoyed Picard overall. I only got a few episodes into Discovery before I lost interest and I say that as someone who's seen every episode of Star Trek prior (except TAS). I may eventually take the time to work through it. Discovery made too many changes that were really bad. One of the worst superficial changes was having Klingons without hair. One of my biggest objections to Picard though?:

Spoiler alert! Click Show to show the content.

Show

It's far darker than everything prior leads you to believe. The Federation, particularly Earth, is supposed to be utopia. It's fine to dial things down a bit, but they might've gone too far.

Also, as someone that loved Voyager, I can't forgive what they did to Icheb just to shoehorn Seven in.

[politicallefty]

I haven't heard of it. I really enjoyed Picard, but I haven't watched more than the first few episodes of Discovery. I'm debating whether or not I should push through it and see if it gets better. All of Trek does have its rough edges throughout its first seasons.

Me and the wife are most of the way through watching everything Start Trek, so we'll add this to the list.  We just finished Lower Decks and it is, by FAR, the best Star Trek ever.  Not close.  We haven't seen Picard, the other new cartoon one that is aimed at children or Enterprise. 

We had just finished Voyager before Lower Decks.  What an ordeal that was.  I was done with anything Star Trek at that point, but we knew Lower Decks was going to be short (2 seasons of 13 half hour episodes) and had a cool cast and was supposed to be funny.  We're supposed to do Star Wars after all of Trek is done, but the plan, as of now, is to watch Picard and then move onto Wars without watching season 3 of Discovery or the one for kids, but maybe we'll add Continues to the list.

I haven't seen Lower Decks, so I have no opinion there. I've seen TAS for that matter either. I've never really understood the hate for Voyager. I will agree with most that it did not live up to its potential, but if you view it more like TNG, I think it's easier to appreciate. To be honest, I really liked Captain Janeway too.

From everything I read, I had such low expectations going into Enterprise that I enjoyed it far more than I expected. What really annoyed me though is that the series was getting so good in the fourth season and that network pulled the plug, so no season 5. They fixed what wasn't working before, but it was unfortunately too late. Enterprise is pre-Federation, so it's quite different, but you start to see how the Federation comes to be in the fourth season. I also liked a lot of the Earth-Vulcan drama throughout the show, something that reaches a major inflection point in the fourth season. I'd also say that the pilot episode is one of the stronger pilots of any of the shows.

**if anyone wants to give an opinion on what Star Wars properties to watch and in what order, I'm in a listening mode.  Right now, were leaning towards just the movies and watching them in "in universe" chronological order...ie, Start with the prequels, Solo, Rogue1, the original 3, the last 3.

I've thought a lot about that before, but I agree with the "in-universe" chronological order. That's what I do when I want to watch all of the movies. There are also quite a few unconventional approaches you can read about. It is a little jarring though when you go from the technological advancements made in movies over the past 20 years or so and go back to 1977. On the other hand, it's a good portrayal in seeing the vibrant Republic turn into the authoritarian Empire.

Now, you also have to consider the shows too, not just the movies. But I wouldn't advise squeezing them between the movies unless you're really committed. I strongly recommend watching The Clone Wars (both the movie, which is pretty meh, and the series that ended not long ago, which is amazing). It's computer animated, but I definitely wouldn't call it a kiddie show or anything like that. I think one of the best aspects is that it really gives depth to the prequel era as you see everything slowly fall into place for the Empire to replace the Republic. After that, I'd recommend The Bad Batch, which is basically a spinoff of The Clone Wars, but so far during the very early days of the Empire. I'd also recommend Rebels as well.

Can I assume you've seen The Mandalorian?

[politicallefty]

the wife says she won't watch the SW TV shows.  I can maybe convince her to watch an episode to see if we'll like it.  We watched season 1 of the Mandalorian.  It wasn't as good to us as it seemed to be for everyone else.

The Mandalorian doesn't have a lot of episodes per season, so just watch that through. Season 2 has some great moments and you might have a jaw drop in the final episode. As for The Clone Wars, if you guys are going to sample it, I don't suggest the first episode. Most of the series is multi-episode stories. I don't want to give you anything from Season 7. That runs up right into and actually alongside ROTS. If you want a good sample, try either (or both) of S04E15 ("Deception") and S06E01 ("The Unknown"). Both are multi-episode stories and you guys might find them compelling enough to continue. If you do, it's worth going back and watching the entire series. If you don't like The Clone Wars, I highly doubt you'd like Rebels.

How do you and your wife feel about the prequel movies overall?

Voyager is worse than DS9 which is worse than TNG and everything is better than TOS.  Janeway wasn't the issue (though she is clearly not in the same league as Picard or Sisko), Chakotay is good too, 7of9 was excellent eye candy.  Tuvok was my favorite crew member, but they rarely gave that guy any screen time.  Kim sucked, Torres sucked, I like Robert Picardo, the Doctor was an interesting character that they used WAY too much.  It seemed like 85% of eps were focused on the Doctor or 7of9 (or both).  I understand the desire to focus on their best features, but maybe toss Tuvok a bone from time to time.

I don't know, I just felt Voyager was underrated. I entirely agree that Tuvok was underused and underdeveloped as a character. A lot of writers really don't know how to use Vulcans. Seven was a product of the network. She was supposed to be exactly what you mentioned. However, it turned out Jeri Ryan is actually a damn good actress. Voyager was subject to a lot of meddling by the network. I always felt Janeway quite compelling. I never really cared much for Chakotay, to be honest. One somewhat underrated episode that's always stood out to me was Counterpoint, not the least for this intro scene and especially the ending. It was fantastic acting and a great use of classical music.

As for Sisko, I really don't think he hit his stride until Season 4 or so. He was great during the Dominion War though.

Trust me... Discovery gets worse... much worse. The highpoint of that show was Season 2, hands down, when it actually came closest to resembling Star Trek. It more or less manages to hold together for the first couple of episodes of Season 3, but about one third into the season it completely collapses and never recovers from that point on. The scripts just become unbearable, seemingly on the level of badly written, overly melodramatic fan fiction and the randomly plotted, incoherent story arcs often tend to be go nowhere. At times it doesn't even appear to be science fiction anymore... more like fantasy with huge chunks of soap opera infused into it.

[...]

Yes, Discovery's latest episode is also its lowest-rated yet.


Lower Decks on the hand, went in the opposite direction... it improves over time, becoming sort of a spiritual successor to TNG with lots of irony and self-deprecating humor. Kind of like an animated version of The Orville, but set in the official Trek universe. The guest appearances by well-known Trek alumni like Jonathan Frakes, Marina Sirtis, Robert Duncan McNeill, John de Lancie, Jeffrey Combs, or Alice Krige also help.

I admit that my biggest problem when I started to watch Discovery is that it didn't feel like Star Trek at all. They didn't even give the Klingons hair, which I still don't understand. And then there's all that about the "spore drive". For a show that takes place during an era we know something about, they changed way too much. If you lose me on the little stuff, it's harder to pay attention to the big stuff.

I really enjoyed The Orville. It seemed to me like Lower Decks was something more like a kiddie show, but I admit I've only seen ads so far. All of the names you mentioned are quite interesting, but  I especially enjoyed Weyoun in DS9 and Shran in Enterprise. Jeffrey Combs is an underrated talent in Star Trek.

[politicallefty]

Just like in season 1, after a strong start, season 2 of Picard has been a disappointment. Still better than Discovery though.

Tomorrow is the Strange New Worlds premiere, and I'm really nervous about it.

I'm actually two episodes behind on Picard, but I feel let down by how much they turned the entire season into one story. It's weird because this is one of the few shows where I actually let the entire intro play through. I love the intro and that quintessential musical Star Trek note at the end just strikes me. It's music that gives me hope for a darkening future.

I haven't seen the new show yet, so I'll avoid anything on that until I've seen it.

[politicallefty]

[SPOILERS]

I watched all five episodes of SNW within two days and I'm absolutely hooked. I have enjoyed Picard, but this is what I was looking for in a new Star Trek series. I'm kind of just blown away by how good it is. This really feels like TOS, but with 2020s technology giving it a far more update feel. That said, it does still have that 1960s retrofuture feel, which I've always loved. Even the general look and hairstyles feel like they're updated versions of the 1960s. They really hit a homerun with this show. The characters are very likable and enjoyable. It also returns to a more episodic format, something sorely lacking in sci-fi in recent years. Plots have been overly serialized in recent years to their detriment. It's refreshing to escape that paradigm.

At first, I thought Hemmer was Andorian, until they mentioned he was blind. The Aenar haven't been seen since ENT. I always love continuity like that. It feels to me like Pike is intended to be a sort of fusion of Kirk and Picard (which is how I think they originally wanted Janeway to be).

[politicallefty]

I was more or less under the impression that Star Trek had gotten progressively worse ever since The Next Generation had ended. But Strange New Worlds is possibly the best Trek show since maybe Deep Space Nine now? The very puristic, yet modernized approach is very successful. This is the kind of Star Trek that would have been produced by Gene Roddenberry had he been born fifty years later.

I wondered how that came to be considering the previous duds. I actually don't know that much about that guy but a difference to Discovery and Picard is that SNW has a different co-showrunner/head writer in the person of Henry Alonso Myers, so maybe he's the one who exerts some positive influence here... similar to the role Mike McMahan played with Lower Decks which I now believe to be the second best contemporary incarnation of Star Trek. In any case, Alex Kurtzman beeing neutered always seems to be good thing here. I regard Kurtzman as Trek's version of Chris Chibnall if you catch my drift.

I wouldn't say Star Trek has gotten worse since TNG, though I could be biased on account of really liking 90s Trek. When it comes to Picard, it's easier for me to see past the flaws on account of the cast, particularly the always-great Sir Patrick Stewart. I absolutely agree on your latter point though. SNW really does feel like something Gene Roddenberry would have produced today. However, I think it's better than that in one big way and that's the updated and modernized 60s retrofuture feel of the sets and costumes/hair/makeup. I think the overall look and feel would be something very different without TOS to look back on. All of that together really does create a certain charm that works so well.

I think the main difference between SNW and the other two shows is the extent of serialization, which I suppose would be the result of the direction of the showrunner. Season 2 of Picard really felt like just a long movie. (Season 1 didn't feel quite as serialized overall.) I still haven't taken the time to watch Discovery apart from the first few episodes, but my understanding is that that show is also hyper-serialized as well. The quasi-serialization of DS9 worked great because that was in the days of 26-episode seasons. There was plenty of time to run B-plots that really improved the episodes and helped develop more characters. Sometimes the B-plot is more enjoyable than the A-plot. On the other hand, the biggest problem with Voyager was too far in the other direction, its massive use of the reset button. So far, SNW is very episodic in its plots, but it has a very good flow with developing the main characters. If they have a major recurring villain, I think we have a good idea as to which race that will be.