The Official Star Trek Thread

[Middle-aged Europe]

SPOILERS





After having watched the series premiere I think my main beef with that show is the extremely unoriginal backstory with the artificial intelligences rebelling against their creators and  subsequently being outlawed and/or persecuted. We already know that story from Blade Runner, reimagined Battlestar Galactica, and the new Westworld.

Aside from that I think I liked it. They tried to build and expand on previous events like Data's death or the destruction of Romulus and showed us the repercussions. Patrick Stewart's acting abilities alone probably make that show superior to Discovery, and it's nice to see Picard back in action again. I also found it very pleasing that it wasn't overloaded with action sequences, quiet drama being in the forefront instead.

Like I said, at first glance it's better than Discovery and probably better than Voyager and Enterprise as well.

There's also another hidden reference to the current (or past) refugee crisis other than the Romulan one resulting from the Supernova IMO:

The attack on Mars by the artificial intelligences are similar to the attacks on 9/11 carried out by Muslims.

Trump's travel ban on Muslims are similar to the ban of A.I. by the Federation.

Since Dahj is some kind of human/A.I. hybrid, she could be seen as some sort of Muslim refugee using todays standards.

That's essentially the same what BSG did with regards to the Cylons. Except that it was more relevant back then because it had only been a few years since 9/11.

[Tender Branson]

SPOILERS





After having watched the series premiere I think my main beef with that show is the extremely unoriginal backstory with the artificial intelligences rebelling against their creators and  subsequently being outlawed and/or persecuted. We already know that story from Blade Runner, reimagined Battlestar Galactica, and the new Westworld.

Aside from that I think I liked it. They tried to build and expand on previous events like Data's death or the destruction of Romulus and showed us the repercussions. Patrick Stewart's acting abilities alone probably make that show superior to Discovery, and it's nice to see Picard back in action again. I also found it very pleasing that it wasn't overloaded with action sequences, quiet drama being in the forefront instead.

Like I said, at first glance it's better than Discovery and probably better than Voyager and Enterprise as well.

There's also another hidden reference to the current (or past) refugee crisis other than the Romulan one resulting from the Supernova IMO:

The attack on Mars by the artificial intelligences are similar to the attacks on 9/11 carried out by Muslims.

Trump's travel ban on Muslims are similar to the ban of A.I. by the Federation.

Since Dahj is some kind of human/A.I. hybrid, she could be seen as some sort of Muslim refugee using todays standards.

That's essentially the same what BSG did with regards to the Cylons. Except that it was more relevant back then because it had only been a few years since 9/11.

I forgot to mention that "The Orville" did the same with the A.I. gone wild in that double-episode, who destroyed their creators (10 billion dead in a Terminator-style war).

[Tender Branson]

SPIOLERS


























I just noticed something interesting:

In the 3-book comic series „Countdown: Picard“, it was revealed that Geordi LaForge took over the leading position at the Utopia Planitia ship building facility orbiting Mars.

The first episode now confirmed that Utopia Planitia was completely destroyed by rogue A.I. during the attack on Mars.

What happened with Geordi during the attack ?

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

While a single episode probably isn't nearly sufficient to rate an entire series, I will give the first episode a "B".

If it holds this level of quality, I'd place the series somewhere in the middle field below TOS, TNG, and DS9, but above VOY, ENT, and DIS... well, perhaps on par with DS9.

DS9 is the best Trek series to date, tho not as good as B5. TNG depended on the quality of the season. Had it not had the Trek name, it never would've made it to a second season.

[Middle-aged Europe]

While a single episode probably isn't nearly sufficient to rate an entire series, I will give the first episode a "B".

If it holds this level of quality, I'd place the series somewhere in the middle field below TOS, TNG, and DS9, but above VOY, ENT, and DIS... well, perhaps on par with DS9.

DS9 is the best Trek series to date, tho not as good as B5. TNG depended on the quality of the season. Had it not had the Trek name, it never would've made it to a second season.

True, but applies to DS9 as well.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

While a single episode probably isn't nearly sufficient to rate an entire series, I will give the first episode a "B".

If it holds this level of quality, I'd place the series somewhere in the middle field below TOS, TNG, and DS9, but above VOY, ENT, and DIS... well, perhaps on par with DS9.

DS9 is the best Trek series to date, tho not as good as B5. TNG depended on the quality of the season. Had it not had the Trek name, it never would've made it to a second season.

True, but applies to DS9 as well.

If anything, being Trek hurt DS9.  The weakest first season episodes were generally the ones where TNG characters made crossovers. (Aside from the pilot, where Sisko's distaste for Locutus of Picard was well used, but there, Picard was used purely in a cameo/supporting role rather than having the episode focusing on him.)

[dbatche3]

Having one of the new Romulan settlements be an old Borg cube is very interesting. I am curious to see what additional backstory we get on that.

[dbatche3]

I was satisfied when the episode ended, so I gave it an A, although in reality it was probably closer to an A-.

[afleitch]

I loved it. No qualms about the pacing at all. I also loved lots of establishment shots of Earth 'now' (in terms of the timeline) which was really well done.

[John Dule]

Will not watch. TOS all the way!!!1!

[Sirius_]

Will not watch. TOS all the way!!!1!

Terms of Service is the best Star Trek!

Yes I know what that stands for

But why does that prevent you from watching this one?

[John Dule]

Will not watch. TOS all the way!!!1!

Terms of Service is the best Star Trek!

Yes I know what that stands for

But why does that prevent you from watching this one?

Meh, I was never a fan of The Next Generation. I didn't care for Picard's leadership and I thought the cast as a whole was pretty bland and uninspiring. It might be unfair to compare them to the TOS cast, but even standing alone I didn't think they had much chemistry.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Will not watch. TOS all the way!!!1!

Terms of Service is the best Star Trek!

Yes I know what that stands for

But why does that prevent you from watching this one?

Meh, I was never a fan of The Next Generation. I didn't care for Picard's leadership and I thought the cast as a whole was pretty bland and uninspiring. It might be unfair to compare them to the TOS cast, but even standing alone I didn't think they had much chemistry.

I recall the meme that was popular on the internet back when TNG came out. (Yes, there was an internet before there was a web, and I spent too much time on it then. USENET lives!)

TOS = Classic Coke
TAS = Diet Coke
TNG = New Coke
the films = Cherry Coke

[Tender Branson]

BTW:

Episode 2 on Thursday is called "Maps and Legends".

Whatever this refers to ...

Here's my guess:

Picard attempts to find Soji in the Borg cube. After finding her, they travel to Mars or some other Mars-like planet (Vulcan ?), where Picard's former legendary #1 after Nemesis is now living/hiding etc. (Riker left the Enterprise for the Titan, so Picard needed a new #1, Michelle Hurd, probably a very nasty/badass, but likeable commander). Together with her and Soji, they will attempt to find Bruce Maddox, the A.I. scientist, who once wanted to disassemble Data - but failed - and later continued his studies on A.I. with the permission of Data and frequent correspondence with him.

[Tender Branson]

I also find it ironic that Maddox/The Federation's cybernetic department made the same mistake as Noonian Soong did with Lore, Data's brother, by creating an army of rogue, misguided synthetics ...

But well, "errors" happen.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I also find it ironic that Maddox/The Federation's cybernetic department made the same mistake as Noonian Soong did with Lore, Data's brother, by creating an army of rogue, misguided synthetics ...

But well, "errors" happen.

Errors such as lazy writing?

[Tender Branson]

I have now seen Episode 2.

It continues to be really exciting, but it is also more tech-driven - which reminds me of the crappy Discovery.

Maybe there are just some episodes that resemble TNG and others that resemble Discovery more.

[Middle-aged Europe]

SPOILERS







So, apparently the Romulans have some ancient taboo against the use of artificial intelligences, androids and so forth. And there's a millenia-old secret organization which both "loathes and fears" AIs, making sure that this taboo is upheld. At that point, I was inclined to yell at the screen: Because of the BUTLERIAN JIHAD???

(We also learned that episode that Picard reads Isaac Asmiov. So far no direct reference to Herbert though.)

I also started to wonder if and when events from Discovery's second season would come into play in Picard. The former had recently dealt with a rogue AI after all. Maybe a remnant of "Control" was responsible for the synths going haywire in Utopia Planitia??


Speaking of which.... Worf's name was also dropped in dialogue, making me wonder: If Michael Dorn were to appear on the show, would he know wear the make-up of the Discovery Klingons?? I sure as hell hope not. To redesign the Klingons for DIS was one of the most stupid decisions ever. Sure, their outlook had already been redesigned once during the 80s, but back then they only had been recurring villains. Now, two main characters (Worf/B'Elanna) and numerous important recurring characters (Gowron, Martok, Lursa & B'Etor, Kurn, Alexander and so on...) come from that race. I guess the existence of Star Trek: Picard wasn't really anticipated when Discovery was first developed.


The gradual introduction of the main cast continued in the second episode. This time: Michelle Hurd as Raffi Musiker. According to the trailer for next week we're finally gonna see Santiago Cabrera's character for the first time then. And also THE SHIP.

[Tender Branson]

SPOILERS







So, apparently the Romulans have some ancient taboo against the use of artificial intelligences, androids and so forth. And there's a millenia-old secret organization which both "loathes and fears" AIs, making sure that this taboo is upheld. At that point, I was inclined to yell at the screen: Because of the BUTLERIAN JIHAD???

(We also learned that episode that Picard reads Isaac Asmiov. So far no direct reference to Herbert though.)

I also started to wonder if and when events from Discovery's second season would come into play in Picard. The former had recently dealt with a rogue AI after all. Maybe a remnant of "Control" was responsible for the synths going haywire in Utopia Planitia??


Speaking of which.... Worf's name was also dropped in dialogue, making me wonder: If Michael Dorn were to appear on the show, would he know wear the make-up of the Discovery Klingons?? I sure as hell hope not. To redesign the Klingons for DIS was one of the most stupid decisions ever. Sure, their outlook had already been redesigned once during the 80s, but back then they only had been recurring villains. Now, two main characters (Worf/B'Elanna) and numerous important recurring characters (Gowron, Martok, Lursa & B'Etor, Kurn, Alexander and so on...) come from that race. I guess the existence of Star Trek: Picard wasn't really anticipated when Discovery was first developed.


The gradual introduction of the main cast continued in the second episode. This time: Michelle Hurd as Raffi Musiker. According to the trailer for next week we're finally gonna see Santiago Cabrera's character for the first time then. And also THE SHIP.

There were news reports that Worf would not look like Discovery’s Klingons if he were to return.

[Tender Branson]

SPOILERS

I have now seen Episode 2 in English & German and here are some of my points:

(SPOILERS)

Utopia Planitia rampage and attack on Mars: the androids were bullied and mocked. One supervisor referred to them as "plastic people, let's go to work". In other words: they are slaves. When the Utopia Planitia crew was mocking the one that worked with them, something changed in his eyes and he killed all of them and started the attack on the orbital station and Mars itself. That is a metaphor for 9/11 and the mocking of Muslims and their ban afterwards. The Romulans, as you said, absolutely hate and fear all forms of A.I. for some reason. They are virtually the Hungarians of Star Trek (Israelis/Palestinians are also worth of a comparison). It is possible that someone inserted a code into the A.I. service workers that if they hear being mocked that they go into auto-destruct mode.

Another fact that appeared: Picard's doctor that is visiting him has a North African (Muslim ?) name and served as his doctor already on the "Stargazer".

I'm also heavily interested in the Federation/Romulan security structure of the year 2399:

It seems there is a Romulan Free State now and that the Tal Shiar and the Federation Security/Section 31 are now working together or they are even a single department.

I only noticed when I watched it in German that Lt. Rizzo was a secret Romulan (in human appearance) and that she and her Romulan team was responsible for killing Dahj in front of Picard on that staircase. Commodore Oh was reprimanding her because of it, because she "destroyed the thing before they could question her". Also, her brother Narek (also a Romulan) at the Borg Cube is Dahj's twin sister's lover and is out to "observe" her. He and his sister have been deployed to observe siblings/twins that are seen as a major threat to the Romulans (Ltd. Rizzo even refers to her as "scum".) That's a big plot twist.

[Middle-aged Europe]

One can tell that you're really a bit obsessed with Muslims, right?

Btw, the doctor's name was "Moritz Benayoun".... Benayoun is a traditionally Hebrew/Jewish name which is indeed most prevalent among North African Jews and - due to heavy immigration from North Africa - among French Jews as well. Don't know whether it is a coincidence that the actor who portrayed him, David Paymer, is Jewish too - albeit not one of North African descent.

[Tender Branson]

One can tell that you're really a bit obsessed with Muslims, right?

Btw, the doctor's name was "Moritz Benayoun".... Benayoun is a traditionally Hebrew/Jewish name which is indeed most prevalent among North African Jews and - due to heavy immigration from North Africa - among French Jews as well. Don't know whether it is a coincidence that the actor who portrayed him, David Paymer, is Jewish too - albeit not one of North African descent.

Obsessed ? LOL, no.

Interesting that you think Moritz Benayoun is a Jewish name.

I thought it was a Tunisian, Algerian, Moroccan name ...

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I just had a thought that would cause great rejoicing if they did it, but even if they were willing, I doubt the actor who plays the character would consider it.

ST:P is in a position to do a Scooby Doo move and make use of an unpopular character in a popular way. Wesley Crusher is TNG's Scrappy Doo. Like what happened with Scrappy Doo in the Scooby Doo movie, make him the villain responsible for the synthetics going rogue, and everyone is happy, except for Wil Wheaton, which is why it'll never happen. Of course, they could bring back William A. Wallace, who played an alternate version of Wesley in one episode, but that wouldn't be nearly as satisfying.

[Tender Branson]

I have just seen Episode 3 in English.

I need to wait for the German version because I didn’t understand everything (no subtitles), but I’d rate this episode at 12 points out of 10.

Very good mix of personal storytelling, character-building and technology.

[Tender Branson]

Did anyone else watch episode 3 as well ?

I still wonder what „The Destroyer“ means ...

The formerly assimilated Romulan woman in the mental facility ward says that Soji is the „Destroyer“ and that she knows her.

Soji says - subconsciously- that the Romulan woman was part of the last ship that the Borg cube assimilated before it was cut from the collective.

How does she know ? Only the Borg Queen would know that.

So, is Soji the Borg Queen ? Or Data’s „daughter“, created by Maddox ?