The Official Star Trek Thread

[Middle-aged Europe]

And there were a few other gems throughout the season, like "Far Beyond the Stars" and especially "In the Pale Moonlight", but there were also an awful lot of clunkers, like "Time's Orphan", "The Magnificent Ferengi", and the absolute worst episode of the series, "Profit and Lace".

Personally, I thought that "The Magnificent Ferengi" was hilarious.

[Antonio the Sixth]

First Contact was a great movie, period. The Borg worked as a perfect villain and the ending with the actual first contact was awesome. I loved almost every minute of it. The only issue I had with the movie was the introduction of the Borg Queen. Although she was a good plot point for the movie, I felt that was a terrible decision in the larger scheme of things. To me, the Borg should not have a leader, as it is a hive mentality (I'll give a pass for Locutus, as he was meant to be humanity's introduction to the Borg).

Yeah, First Contact was fantastic. It's actually the first thing I've ever seen about Star Trek, and it sure left a strong impression (and it gets even better when you grow up). The Borg are some of the greatest scifi villiains ever conceived. Though yeah, I agree that I could have done without the Borg Queen.

Generations has several dumb moments, a plot that doesn't entirely make sense, and an ending that pissed off a lot of people, but personally I still found it enjoyable. That's probably because I don't have an emotional connection to TOS and its characters - so if you do have one, consider yourself warned.

I still have to watch Insurrection and Nemesis, though I'll probably skip the former seeing how everybody seems to consider it utterly forgettable.

[DemPGH]

Maybe the best TNG episode is "Inheritance" from season 7. Loved that, Data became my favorite character by far with that.

Also, IMO, Insurrection is much better than Nemesis. Fans often criticize the former for not telling a Dominion War storyline, but honestly I think that speaks to Paramount's lack of confidence in DS9, plus they wanted to reach a larger audience, and in that sense Insurrection is effective. It's a trouble-in-Eden story. And Picard takes one of his strong moral stands, so it is actually very TNG-ish. I kind of like it.

In the end, I think the Original Series plus TNG did for me about all Trek could do (I guess I like Gene's vision a lot). Voyager to me just tried so hard to be cool, but was too repetitive and the quality writing just wasn't there. DS9 was too dark and then got into mysticism as I recall, kind of its own sci-fi series, really.

[Mechaman]

Maybe the best TNG episode is "Inheritance" from season 7. Loved that, Data became my favorite character by far with that.

Also, IMO, Insurrection is much better than Nemesis. Fans often criticize the former for not telling a Dominion War storyline, but honestly I think that speaks to Paramount's lack of confidence in DS9, plus they wanted to reach a larger audience, and in that sense Insurrection is effective. It's a trouble-in-Eden story. And Picard takes one of his strong moral stands, so it is actually very TNG-ish. I kind of like it.

In the end, I think the Original Series plus TNG did for me about all Trek could do (I guess I like Gene's vision a lot). Voyager to me just tried so hard to be cool, but was too repetitive and the quality writing just wasn't there. DS9 was too dark and then got into mysticism as I recall, kind of its own sci-fi series, really.

Just read this post.  A+.

I am rewatching TNG.  Right now I am at Season 4 (I think I'm about  midway through), but I'll make a note to watch out for that episode when I come across it.  The one thing I remember about TNG is that it was one of those rare series that actually gets better in the later seasons.  Granted, that might just be because of the turmoil of the first two seasons (where do we begin?) that sort of made Season 3 sort  of a "make it or break it" season for many.  Some lament the axing out of Tasha Yar as a regular series character, but Worf really is a much stronger character  to fill in the role of a Chief of Security and I felt that there really wasn't much future potential for Yar anyways.  Doctor Pulaski wasn't absolutely terrible, but I did not feel any sort of interest in her story.  Really, I think it revealed that the problem in Season One with Dr. Crusher was that she was written way too simplistically (they way overdid the sexual tension between her and the Captain).  It seems like once they gave Gates McFadden  something to work with she was able to turn Dr. Crusher into one of the moral pillars of the crew (if that is an appropriate phrase to use here) as opposed to just a random late thirties/early forties female doctor who was thrown into the show just to serve as the captain's love interest.

And yeah my favorite character is also Data.  I kind of like the whole "anti-Spock" nature of the Android who knows everything except how to be human.  Really, in a way Data's attempts to emulate/understand human behavior/emotions/what have you are actually him furthering a quest for understanding.  Yes, the Android does know many things, but the more I watch the series it seems that he starts out not truly understanding a great many things.  Arguably the show shows that there is a dimension to feelings that can't be ascertained by mere knowledge and fact.

And in regards to Insurrection, I myself found it pretty decent (given that it was a Star Trek film, back then one typically didn't go to one of those expecting a life changing Academy Award worthy performance).  I don't get some of the more extreme hate it gets.  Hell, Patrick Stewart's performance in Insurrection alone makes it miles better than Nemesis, that WTFfest that was The Final Frontier, the snoozefest that was the first movie, and the Special Effects Driven Porn (SEDP) of the latest two.  It is at least as good as Generations (your mileage may vary on this, I actually kind of liked it for some reason (except for the ultra dark lighting in Picard's Ready Room, seriously WTF), imo.  And maybe I'm a little bit biased here (I am not the hugest fan of Deep Space Nine, precisely for the reasons you articulated), but I think the last thing a Star Trek movie needed in 1998 was an hour and fifty minutes rehash of YET ANOTHER DOMINION STORYLINE.  I mean, DS9 is not a horrible show; but it's themes always seemed a little too dark for a regular Star Trek series (again, I am also a huge fan of the original vision).  It was good from a "serial" perspective (a long lasting story arc extending through SEASONS OF EPISODES), but from a "I just want to see a ship fly through space combined with a strongly delivered moral message at the end of the episode" perspective I'm not a fan.

I watched Voyager a few times.  It seems okay.  I kind of liked the idea of them being in a largely uncharted part of the galaxy bit, but yeah other than that it seems like an overly PC (god I feel like a dirty racist Bircher saying that) pastel hewed attempt at trying to be "way too cool, dudes" tv show.  Maybe my opinion will change when I get through Season Two but so far not really impressed.

But yes, spoiler alert Mecha has watched Star Trek.  Too many times in fact.

[7,052,770]

Season 3 does have two of the worst episodes of the series -- Meridian and Distant Voices, which were both dumb and boring, so they brings down the average.

I actually liked "Sacrifice of Angels" a lot and never really considered it a deus ex machina. The Prophets tell Sisko they will exact a penance in exchange for their help, and that plot comes up again later in the show.

[DemPGH]

Maybe the best TNG episode is "Inheritance" from season 7. Loved that, Data became my favorite character by far with that.

Also, IMO, Insurrection is much better than Nemesis. Fans often criticize the former for not telling a Dominion War storyline, but honestly I think that speaks to Paramount's lack of confidence in DS9, plus they wanted to reach a larger audience, and in that sense Insurrection is effective. It's a trouble-in-Eden story. And Picard takes one of his strong moral stands, so it is actually very TNG-ish. I kind of like it.

In the end, I think the Original Series plus TNG did for me about all Trek could do (I guess I like Gene's vision a lot). Voyager to me just tried so hard to be cool, but was too repetitive and the quality writing just wasn't there. DS9 was too dark and then got into mysticism as I recall, kind of its own sci-fi series, really.

Just read this post.  A+.

I am rewatching TNG.  Right now I am at Season 4 (I think I'm about  midway through), but I'll make a note to watch out for that episode when I come across it.  The one thing I remember about TNG is that it was one of those rare series that actually gets better in the later seasons.  Granted, that might just be because of the turmoil of the first two seasons (where do we begin?) that sort of made Season 3 sort  of a "make it or break it" season for many.  Some lament the axing out of Tasha Yar as a regular series character, but Worf really is a much stronger character  to fill in the role of a Chief of Security and I felt that there really wasn't much future potential for Yar anyways.  Doctor Pulaski wasn't absolutely terrible, but I did not feel any sort of interest in her story.  Really, I think it revealed that the problem in Season One with Dr. Crusher was that she was written way too simplistically (they way overdid the sexual tension between her and the Captain).  It seems like once they gave Gates McFadden  something to work with she was able to turn Dr. Crusher into one of the moral pillars of the crew (if that is an appropriate phrase to use here) as opposed to just a random late thirties/early forties female doctor who was thrown into the show just to serve as the captain's love interest.

And yeah my favorite character is also Data.  I kind of like the whole "anti-Spock" nature of the Android who knows everything except how to be human.  Really, in a way Data's attempts to emulate/understand human behavior/emotions/what have you are actually him furthering a quest for understanding.  Yes, the Android does know many things, but the more I watch the series it seems that he starts out not truly understanding a great many things.  Arguably the show shows that there is a dimension to feelings that can't be ascertained by mere knowledge and fact.

And in regards to Insurrection, I myself found it pretty decent (given that it was a Star Trek film, back then one typically didn't go to one of those expecting a life changing Academy Award worthy performance).  I don't get some of the more extreme hate it gets.  Hell, Patrick Stewart's performance in Insurrection alone makes it miles better than Nemesis, that WTFfest that was The Final Frontier, the snoozefest that was the first movie, and the Special Effects Driven Porn (SEDP) of the latest two.  It is at least as good as Generations (your mileage may vary on this, I actually kind of liked it for some reason (except for the ultra dark lighting in Picard's Ready Room, seriously WTF), imo.  And maybe I'm a little bit biased here (I am not the hugest fan of Deep Space Nine, precisely for the reasons you articulated), but I think the last thing a Star Trek movie needed in 1998 was an hour and fifty minutes rehash of YET ANOTHER DOMINION STORYLINE.  I mean, DS9 is not a horrible show; but it's themes always seemed a little too dark for a regular Star Trek series (again, I am also a huge fan of the original vision).  It was good from a "serial" perspective (a long lasting story arc extending through SEASONS OF EPISODES), but from a "I just want to see a ship fly through space combined with a strongly delivered moral message at the end of the episode" perspective I'm not a fan.

Haha, thanks! It's cool that there's some Trek fandom here, and yep, I agree with your observations!

I like Generations - not great but good, and good grief, I noticed how dark much of the lighting was as well! It was really jarring. Maybe to make it look like a movie because season 7 ended, they shot the movie, and it was out in the Fall that year.

What I think worked so well with TNG is, look who was coming in the door everyday: Stewart, Spiner, Dorn (who also was great), and they all had ideas for things, especially when the cast started directing shows. I still have a hardcopy of the Companion, which in a couple spots speaks to that. The cast of TNG was simply awesome.

Early on, Tasha was kind of extraneous, yeah. LaForge settled into his spot, Worf settled into his spot (there was a lot of overlap here early), and it just left Tasha kind of out.

The highlighted sentence is right on, I think. DS9 was cool, but it definitely was its thing with its audience.

The prequels have left a lot to be desired for me as well. I guess both Frakes and Dorn have pitched ideas for a TNG era reboot, one that would focus on Worf, another on Captain Riker, but it doesn't sound like either has much chance. It would depend on who would be running it, IMO.

Gene's views on a host of issues mesh with mine, and I think when it got away from that it was watchable but didn't do anything for me.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Season 1 - and Season 2 to a lesser extent as well - of TNG were served with a big block of cheese and some corn too. They have their entertainment value for that reason alone ("Justice", "Angel One" anyone? ).

It was with Season 3 that the show suddenly become a serious drama... sort of L.A. Law... in Space!, to compare it with a contemporary non-SF show which was also critically acclaimed at the time due to its strong writing and exploration of social issues.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Well, I just finished season 2, so it seems like the -real- stuff is about to begin.

Besides a few good episodes like "Q who", the season's ending was pretty dull. The last episode in particular was an utter mockery. It's easy to see they had to rush in to complete it.

But anyway, now I'm looking to be impressed.

[Mr. Morden]

Besides a few good episodes like "Q who", the season's ending was pretty dull. The last episode in particular was an utter mockery. It's easy to see they had to rush in to complete it.

Yeah, as noted earlier, Season 2 was the shortest because there was a writer's strike at the beginning of the year, thus delaying production.  By the time they got to the end, they only had a few days left in which to film the season finale, and so we got a clip show.

[Deus Naturae]

Well, I just finished season 2, so it seems like the -real- stuff is about to begin.

Besides a few good episodes like "Q who", the season's ending was pretty dull. The last episode in particular was an utter mockery. It's easy to see they had to rush in to complete it.

But anyway, now I'm looking to be impressed.

Was that the one with the evil bugs that latched onto people and mind-controlled them (or was that the season 1 finale?) and had a plan to take over the Federation? I always found it funny how they never followed up on that plotline.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Well, I just finished season 2, so it seems like the -real- stuff is about to begin.

Besides a few good episodes like "Q who", the season's ending was pretty dull. The last episode in particular was an utter mockery. It's easy to see they had to rush in to complete it.

But anyway, now I'm looking to be impressed.

Was that the one with the evil bugs that latched onto people and mind-controlled them (or was that the season 1 finale?) and had a plan to take over the Federation? I always found it funny how they never followed up on that plotline.

The bugs were the penultimate episode of season 1 and were a hastily conceived means of ending a storyline that Roddenberry vetoed about a potential coup within Starfleet by having it be due to an alien parasite.  Roddenberry's insistence that the Federation be perfect was a major weakness of TNG's first season.  The Borg, who were hinted at in the season 1 finale, proved to be the principal villain for TNG and once established, there was no need to revisit the bugs.  There had been some thought to making the bugs be agents of the Borg, but that was at the stage where the Borg were going to be an insectoid race rather than the cyborgs we came to love and fear.  Once the Borg were cyborgs, it wasn't possible to tie the two together and there was no role the bugs could play that the Borg couldn't do at least as well.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Well, I just finished season 2, so it seems like the -real- stuff is about to begin.

Besides a few good episodes like "Q who", the season's ending was pretty dull. The last episode in particular was an utter mockery. It's easy to see they had to rush in to complete it.

But anyway, now I'm looking to be impressed.

Was that the one with the evil bugs that latched onto people and mind-controlled them (or was that the season 1 finale?) and had a plan to take over the Federation? I always found it funny how they never followed up on that plotline.

No, it was the one where 90% of the episode consists of replaying scenes of previous episodes where Riker gets in trouble.

I actually enjoyed the one with alien bugs (though the story would certainly have been a lot more solid if it was an actual coup by Starfleet's high command).

[DemPGH]

Well, I just finished season 2, so it seems like the -real- stuff is about to begin.

Besides a few good episodes like "Q who", the season's ending was pretty dull. The last episode in particular was an utter mockery. It's easy to see they had to rush in to complete it.

But anyway, now I'm looking to be impressed.

Was that the one with the evil bugs that latched onto people and mind-controlled them (or was that the season 1 finale?) and had a plan to take over the Federation? I always found it funny how they never followed up on that plotline.

No, it was the one where 90% of the episode consists of replaying scenes of previous episodes where Riker gets in trouble.

Shades of Gray (there's a MacGyver episode like that, btw). If they're going to do flashbacks, I think it should at least be new stuff. It was weak. But Maurice Hurley wrote that one basically as he was packing up his office to leave, lol. There was a big turnover after season 2, Gene backed off a bit, and new people came in with a fresh perspective to go alongside the old. I think that helped the show a lot.

I also liked the one about the bugs.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Gene only backed off because of his stroke.  If he'd stayed healthy I doubt TNG would have lasted seven seasons.

[Gass3268]

Leonard Nimoy passes away at the age of 83

[politicallefty]

Though if you really are married to the TNG structure I can see how Voyager would immediately strike you as more interesting, since Voyager tried so hard to ape TNG's mojo (so hard, I would argue, that it damages the show's potential super hard) and generally has an episode-to-episode structure just like it.

For me, that just was not the way to get me interesting in the show. Going into any other series, I don't have the expectation that anything will be as good as TNG, so maybe my expectations are set different from others. A few episodes into each, I do like Voyager better than DS9. I feel like the premise is set closer to that of TNG's, which is what I'm looking for right now. I'm not understanding the hatred a lot of people have for it.

I do intend to get around the entire series over time, though I don't necessarily have to watch one chunk at a time. Incidentally, I was watching some clips of TOS last night. Before, I'd thought it might have been too dated (and it certainly is to certain extent), but it does seem a lot more appealing now that I've seen some. I watched TNG all the way through without watching any of the other series. Perhaps, now, I might just jump around a bit between series. (Of course, that'll end up taking a lot more time to finish.)

Well, I just finished season 2, so it seems like the -real- stuff is about to begin.

Besides a few good episodes like "Q who", the season's ending was pretty dull. The last episode in particular was an utter mockery. It's easy to see they had to rush in to complete it.

Q Who is easily the best episode from season 2 and one of the best of entire show. But yes, you're getting into the really good stuff now. You're going to love the finale for season 3 (and premiere for season 4), which I think many people consider to be the best episode(s) of the entire series. Patrick Stewart is amazing and it really is no coincidence that most of the episodes considered the best are centred around Captain Picard.

I'd also say not to discount Insurrection. The title is overly dramatic for the content and oversells it, but it was enjoyable. Even if you're not going for completion, I'd still say to watch it, but wait until you've finished the regular series.

Really, I think it revealed that the problem in Season One with Dr. Crusher was that she was written way too simplistically (they way overdid the sexual tension between her and the Captain).  It seems like once they gave Gates McFadden  something to work with she was able to turn Dr. Crusher into one of the moral pillars of the crew (if that is an appropriate phrase to use here) as opposed to just a random late thirties/early forties female doctor who was thrown into the show just to serve as the captain's love interest.

I couldn't agree more. Remember Me is one of my personal favourites from season 4 and her performance was great. I think you can really see one's talent when you centre an episode such as that around one person. I was also a big fan of Attached from season 7, particularly for the scenes with Captain Picard and Dr. Crusher. That was clearly the kind of episode that showed how the show matured from its first season, as that episode would have been radically different and no doubt much worse if it were in season 1.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I'm halfway through Season 3 now, and I can definitely see that it's getting better. "The Survivors" was truly amazing, it's my new favorite now. It really knew how to build up an atmosphere of mystery and uneasiness, and the final reveal really brings shudders. "The Ensigns of Command" (aka "Data learns to play politics"), "Who Watches the Watchers" and "The Defector" were also excellent. Most of the others were also solid. I'm really excited about what's up next!

Though I'm a bit disappointed that the Borg haven't made their second appearance yet. I know the season finale is the famous two-parter that features them, but I though they would appear at least once between "Q Who" and then...

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Though I'm a bit disappointed that the Borg haven't made their second appearance yet. I know the season finale is the famous two-parter that features them, but I though they would appear at least once between "Q Who" and then...

The Borg episodes of TNG generally went overbudget and overtime.  While they were popular, the mechanics of making them ensured they would be special episodes rather than regular ones.  It wasn't until CGI reach the point of making it practical to do Borg episodes for Star Trek: V'ger that it became possible for them to be used more often than they were in TNG.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Just saw The Best of Both Worlds. Yup, the Borg really rule. Easily one of the coolest alien foes in the history of SciFi. The concept is really clever, and, despite the still lacking special effect, it's executed to a terrifying effect. Every time you hear "resistance is futile" or "X is irrelevant" it will bring chills to your spine. And it was great to see the team struggle to work without their captain, with stakes as high as the fate of Earth itself. I actually really liked Riker in the role of captain, even though I never was a fan of his (nothing against him, I just don't find him as interesting as Data or Worf). I can see why this episode is so liked, and I'm glad I finally got to see what is essentially the prequel to the amazing First Contact.

The second part of season 3 has some other great episodes. Sins of the Father really struck me for the surprisingly dark ending, which really clashes with the spirit of the series but conveys a very good message (corruption exists in every society) and is very powerful emotionally. Yesterday's Enterprise was also fascinating, as well-crafted "alternate reality" scenarios always are, plus it was nice to see Tasha Yar back. Hollow Pursuits creeped me out a bit for the way it explored the more dangerous potentialities of the holodeck (and thankfully without resorting to yet another malfunction ). If people today have already started living in a fantasy world due to videogames and the internet, just imagine how bad it will get once we reach this technology. I also loved The Most Toys, because Data is the best.

On the other hand, can we please stop throwing a Ferengi in every other episode? They are so f**king annoying, who thought it was a good idea to have these clowns as recurring antagonists in a supposedly serious show?

[Tender Branson]

How can you not like the Ferengi ?

They are one of the main ingredients that make the Star Trek soup taste good

Even though they are a bunch of weird capitalist cowards, I like their eccentric behaviour and Quarks humour. Something like a mix of Donald Trump and the Taliban (just without the Burka, they like their women naked - as we know).

[Antonio the Sixth]

I don't mind the concept of an ultra-capitalist alien society (using alien societies to represents the extremes of human behavior is often what Star Trek does best), but couldn't they be at least a little bit less cartoonish? It's impossible to take them seriously even when they actually happen to be in a threatening position in the episode. And besides, it's utterly ridiculous that the Federation and the Enterprise crew continues to grant them favors and allow them to frequently participate in their negotiations even after the Ferengi have tried to screw them over literally every time. At this point, they deserve to be scammed.

BTW, I'm sure Donald Trump would have nothing to object about women being naked, either.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

On the other hand, can we please stop throwing a Ferengi in every other episode? They are so f**king annoying, who thought it was a good idea to have these clowns as recurring antagonists in a supposedly serious show?

Because they were originally supposed to me the main alien antagonists of TNG and it took the writing team time to realize they weren't up to the job. It's why we got the Borg and the Cardassians as replacements.

[7,052,770]

Ferengi were awful in TNG, but good in DS9.

Well, the DS9 episodes devoted to the Ferengi were mostly pretty bad too, but they were great as side characters.

[Fuzzybigfoot]

I just tried watching Star Trek: Insurrection for the first time since I was 12.  The only nice thing I can say about it is that at least it's not Nemesis.

On the other hand, I also watched Star Trek 4: The Voyage home.  It was my very first Star Trek movie ever (I watched it when I was 11), and I actually enjoyed seeing it again after so many years (tied wit First Contact as my favorite Star Trek Movie). 

[Mr. Morden]

Season 3 was TNG's peak, IMHO.

"The Best of Both Worlds, Part 1" is great, though I think even better when viewed in the context of the time it was aired.  In 1990, Star Trek had never had a season cliffhanger before.  For that matter, season cliffhangers like that weren't as common on television in general as they would become later in the decade, so it was a bit of a shock to me when there were two minutes left in the hour with no resolution in sight…leading up to "Mr. Worf….fire".

And this was before the world wide web, so most people didn't have access to any filming spoilers in the lead up to Season 4.  All we could do is wait for three months that summer to see how the story ended.