The Great Nordic Thread

[Helsinkian]

The Finns Party leadership election will take place on 14 August, with the main candidates being the MPs Riikka Purra and Sakari Puisto. Purra is favoured to win.

Purra wins with 64% of votes.

The National Coalition Party is now the only major party never to have had a female leader.

[NewYorkExpress]

Denmark telling some migrants to work 37 hours per week for benefits.

Some migrants in Denmark will now be required to work 37 hours a week in order to receive welfare benefits.

It will be a requirement for those who have been on benefits for three to four years, and who have not reached a certain level of proficiency in Danish.

Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen said the rules were directly aimed at women from "non-Western backgrounds" living on benefits.

Denmark has repeatedly tightened its immigration policies in recent years.

It now has some of the toughest rules in Europe, and has set a target of zero asylum applications.

The government said the new plan was designed to help migrants assimilate into Danish society, but some have said the rules are misguided and unfair.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Denmark telling some migrants to work 37 hours per week for benefits.

Some migrants in Denmark will now be required to work 37 hours a week in order to receive welfare benefits.

It will be a requirement for those who have been on benefits for three to four years, and who have not reached a certain level of proficiency in Danish.

Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen said the rules were directly aimed at women from "non-Western backgrounds" living on benefits.

Denmark has repeatedly tightened its immigration policies in recent years.

It now has some of the toughest rules in Europe, and has set a target of zero asylum applications.

The government said the new plan was designed to help migrants assimilate into Danish society, but some have said the rules are misguided and unfair.

Seems completely reasonable.

[Clarko95 📚💰📈]

Don't see a general Denmark thread, but seems like this mini-scandal about Frederickson deleting text messages related to the mink slaughtering investigation is getting more serious? Ministry of State refuses to answer questions the commission investigating this.

Danish posters, how serious is this actually?

[ingemann]

Don't see a general Denmark thread, but seems like this mini-scandal about Frederickson deleting text messages related to the mink slaughtering investigation is getting more serious? Ministry of State refuses to answer questions the commission investigating this.

Danish posters, how serious is this actually?

It’s potential serious. If the Social Liberal wanted a excuse to change from left to right this would be a perfect excuse to let the government fall. But they would be massacred in the election which would follow. The good point for the government in this is that outside the Social Democrats themselves there’re zero sympathy for fur industry on the left, so it would be hard for Unity List and the Social Liberals to explain to their voters why they let the government fall over this.

The main problem is that there’re nobody between the PM and this scandal. So there’re nobody who can be sacrificed.

But in the end I suspect this scandal will cool down after the municipality election especially if the Social Democrats end up doing well.

[Clarko95 📚💰📈]

Don't see a general Denmark thread, but seems like this mini-scandal about Frederickson deleting text messages related to the mink slaughtering investigation is getting more serious? Ministry of State refuses to answer questions the commission investigating this.

Danish posters, how serious is this actually?

It’s potential serious. If the Social Liberal wanted a excuse to change from left to right this would be a perfect excuse to let the government fall. But they would be massacred in the election which would follow. The good point for the government in this is that outside the Social Democrats themselves there’re zero sympathy for fur industry on the left, so it would be hard for Unity List and the Social Liberals to explain to their voters why they let the government fall over this.

The main problem is that there’re nobody between the PM and this scandal. So there’re nobody who can be sacrificed.

But in the end I suspect this scandal will cool down after the municipality election especially if the Social Democrats end up doing well.

Interesting. Let's say Frederiksen gets the knife; does this necessitate some big government shake-up, or is there someone from S who could step in immediately and be confirmed ala Schallenberg/potentially Andersson? If so, who would that be? Just the deputy PM?

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

 How deeply emebedded is anti-immigration stances among the grassroot of the Social Democrats in Denmark ? Is it primarily just a party leader thing or is it something the grassroots members also belive ?

[ingemann]

Don't see a general Denmark thread, but seems like this mini-scandal about Frederickson deleting text messages related to the mink slaughtering investigation is getting more serious? Ministry of State refuses to answer questions the commission investigating this.

Danish posters, how serious is this actually?

It’s potential serious. If the Social Liberal wanted a excuse to change from left to right this would be a perfect excuse to let the government fall. But they would be massacred in the election which would follow. The good point for the government in this is that outside the Social Democrats themselves there’re zero sympathy for fur industry on the left, so it would be hard for Unity List and the Social Liberals to explain to their voters why they let the government fall over this.

The main problem is that there’re nobody between the PM and this scandal. So there’re nobody who can be sacrificed.

But in the end I suspect this scandal will cool down after the municipality election especially if the Social Democrats end up doing well.

Interesting. Let's say Frederiksen gets the knife; does this necessitate some big government shake-up, or is there someone from S who could step in immediately and be confirmed ala Schallenberg/potentially Andersson? If so, who would that be? Just the deputy PM?

This is where it get a little complex, it’s important to understand that the whole deputy PM doesn’t really exist, it’s fundamental a made up title by the social liberals when they were in government in the 90ties and their leader had a important ministry but with little prestige, so they needed to put on some air and made up the title and the media adopted it instead of ridicule it, so usual it indicates nothing except the guy or gal being called it are the second most important person in the government … but in this case Nicolai Wammen who get called this would be the most likely person to take over. He’s competent and well liked both in the party, among the other parties, in the civil service and in the general population, he’s not a perfect PM as he is too technocratic, but if Frederiksen was run down by a car tomorrow there’s no doubt he would take over as PM.

Whether he change any other ministers depend on himself, I suspect that he would mostly keep the same ministers around but a few would change ministeries. But after a short period he would likely put a new minister team together before the election.

[ingemann]

How deeply emebedded is anti-immigration stances among the grassroot of the Social Democrats in Denmark ? Is it primarily just a party leader thing or is it something the grassroots members also belive ?

It’s again complex, while a lot of party member is a lot more soft on the issue than the MPs and electorate, the issue is a lot less important to the party members than it is to the general electorate (general hawks) and to the media (universal doves). Even the doves in the party cares a lot more about all the other things this government have delivered, and no matter how much a dove a individual Social Democrat is, they’re all enjoy seeing the Social Liberals losing influence. There’s also the element that when the new course was laid, Tesfaye travel to  across the country and talk with the members, he interviewed both doves and hawks and wrote a book about the the history of the party’s history on the issue. Both doves and hawk felt they were listen to and both sides likes Tesfaye (who is very much a hawk). The party also  made sure to put the issue into a Social Democratic ideological context, which also weakened any internal opposition and made the issue a lot more edible not only for the doves in the party but also for the socialist left outside the party.

So even if the doves takes over, they will likely become hawks, in fact Mette Frederiksen the PM was original very much a dove and was still seen as something of a dove when she was elected leader of the party.

The big irony is that the media see the doves/hawks as the big internal fault line in the party, while the real internal fault line is really more economic in nature between people who prefer to make deals with the center-right or with the left.

[NewYorkExpress]

Former Finnish Minister of the Interior Pavi Rasanen is on trial for statements in a 2004 article that called homosexuality a developmental disorder, a radio interview, and a 2019 tweet which included a photograph of an extract of the bible.

A former Finnish interior minister has gone on trial for hate speech against gay people, following comments which she says were based on the Bible.

Prosecutors accuse Paivi Rasanen of making derogatory comments on three occasions, including in a 2019 tweet showing verses from the Bible.

Ms Rasanen denies the charges and says she stands behind her words.

The case is being seen as a test of whether personal religious beliefs can justify controversial language.

Announcing the charges in April last year, Finland's state prosecutor said Ms Rasanen had made comments likely to cause intolerance, contempt and hatred towards homosexuals.

The charges relate to comments she made on three separate occasions: in an article published online, in a radio interview and in a 2019 tweet which included a photograph of an extract from the Bible.


In the tweet, she questioned why the Finnish Lutheran Church was officially supporting Finland's Pride week. The attached photograph contained verses from the Bible which appear to describe homosexual acts as shameful.

The court will have to decide whether citing the Bible can be considered a crime in some cases in Finland.




According to prosecutors, an online article by Ms Rasanen which was published in 2004 described homosexuality as a psychosexual development disorder.

[Helsinkian]

Former Finnish Minister of the Interior Pavi Rasanen is on trial for statements in a 2004 article that called homosexuality a developmental disorder, a radio interview, and a 2019 tweet which included a photograph of an extract of the bible.

The Finnish Lutheran Church (in which Räsänen is a member) has been extremely weak on this issue, failing to defend her. The Archbishop even declared, in response, that "freedom of religion is not without limits" and that one must make only "responsible interpretations" of the Bible.

[Helsinkian]

Former Finnish Minister of the Interior Pavi Rasanen is on trial for statements in a 2004 article that called homosexuality a developmental disorder, a radio interview, and a 2019 tweet which included a photograph of an extract of the bible.

Update: Päivi Räsänen was found not guilty. The district court ruled that while some of her statements were offensive, they did not cross the line to criminal.

This is not necessarily the end of it, since in Finland the prosecutor can also appeal the ruling. However, the district court was quite scathing toward the prosecutor, as the ruling states that the prosecutor had falsely presented her own interpretations of Räsänen's statements as her actual words.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Former Finnish Minister of the Interior Pavi Rasanen is on trial for statements in a 2004 article that called homosexuality a developmental disorder, a radio interview, and a 2019 tweet which included a photograph of an extract of the bible.

The Finnish Lutheran Church (in which Räsänen is a member) has been extremely weak on this issue, failing to defend her. The Archbishop even declared, in response, that "freedom of religion is not without limits" and that one must make only "responsible interpretations" of the Bible.

Terrible. Especially since these beliefs were quite common in 2004. Retroactive criminalization of speech?

[Helsinkian]

Finland's Prime Party Animal Minister Sanna Marin making the headlines again:

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1560015797367488517

Some think it's sexist to criticize her for this stuff, but Alexander Stubb (PM 2014-2015) was called "un-prime-ministerial" for wearing shorts and loafers in summer.

Another clip shows one of the other people shout what sounds like "jauhojengi" which means "flour gang" -- this was interpreted as a slang reference to cocaine. Others claim to hear "jallujengi" -- jallu being slang for a booze brand. [Edit: voice analysis confirms that it was the first one.] Some politicians have suggested that Marin take a drug test -- though that would be useless now, as the footage is weeks old.

[NewYorkExpress]

Finland's Prime Party Animal Minister Sanna Marin making the headlines again:

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1560015797367488517
Some think it's sexist to criticize her for this stuff, but Alexander Stubb (PM 2014-2015) was called "un-prime-ministerial" for wearing shorts and loafers in summer.

Another clip shows one of the other people shout what sounds like "jauhojengi" which means "flour gang" -- this was interpreted as a slang reference to cocaine. Others claim to hear "jallujengi" -- jallu being slang for a booze brand. [Edit: voice analysis confirms that it was the first one.] Some politicians have suggested that Marin take a drug test -- though that would be useless now, as the footage is weeks old.

Unless she's in violation of some social distancing requirement in Finland that I'm not aware of, who the hell cares? Sure, it's not a good look for the Prime Minister to go around partying, and all, but if she wants to do that, why should we give a damn?

[Conservatopia]

I used to like Sanna Marin but after watching her press conference I'm not so sure - she speaks English with an American accent.

Unforgivable.

[Clarko95 📚💰📈]

I was waiting for something illegal like the snorting of coke, something racist like wearing blackface, or something really trashy like chugging tons of alcohol on camera but it's just a handful of people dancing and singing.

Why is this bad? Are politicians not people too? How is this different from what happens in millions of people's homes and apartments all over the world every week? Normal young person does normal young person thing, news at 11.

[Illiniwek]

I will not stand for this Sanna Marin criticism. She is perfect and flawless and she’s the kind of world leader we all need.

[Logical]

Shameful behavior. She should grow up and have real grown up scandals like embezzling, spying on her rivals, selling state secrets and smuggling contraband weapons.

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

I used to like Sanna Marin but after watching her press conference I'm not so sure - she speaks English with an American accent.

Unforgivable.

Have you ever been to Finland? People speak English with a (mostly) Finnish accent. Just because they aren't eating prawn cocktail crisps every day doesn't mean that they are American.

[TiltsAreUnderrated]

Shameful behavior. She should grow up and have real grown up scandals like embezzling, spying on her rivals, selling state secrets and smuggling contraband weapons.

Yeah! If she’s going to party, she at least needs to do it according to our traditional values. Berlusconi put his career on the line to uphold that precedent.

[CumbrianLefty]

Shameful behavior. She should grow up and have real grown up scandals like embezzling, spying on her rivals, selling state secrets and smuggling contraband weapons.

Or even just partied in the same manner as BoJo.

[Omega21]

People are moreso pissed because of this:

And no, that's not her husband.

[Helsinkian]

The partying continued in the Prime Minister's official residence: Marin's TikTok influencer friends took this photo in the residence's video conferencing room holding the "Finland" sign used in such conferences.

And here we go again: #summertrack22

I really wish this gate is not true. For one thing, it can be considerably hard to shoot videos against the government's graphics wall. Or, well, apparently not that hard as long as you're in the party entourage.

https://twitter.com/HenrikaPalenius/status/1561963997989068801

The funny thing was watching Finnish pro-Marin Twitter users go from "That is clearly a photoshop created in the Kremlin and maliciously spread by the far-right" of this morning to "What's wrong with the photo?" of this afternoon when Marin confirmed it was real.

[Helsinkian]

Political cartoon referring to an old feminist slogan:

"The personal is political."

"Except for the prime minister's partying -- that is purely personal!!"

https://twitter.com/JyrkiVainio/status/1562032106833854464

And yeah, it's not just about partying. When we have a prime minister who invites her drunken party entourage consisting of who knows to have a free rein of her residence, one wonders who else has had access and what has been done with such access.