American Hypocrisy strikes Japan

[opebo]

The U.S. State Department, on behalf of the torturing Bush administration, has placed Japan on its 'Watch List' of 'Human trafficking' nations:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=572&ncid=572&e=2&u=/nm/20041222/lf_nm/philippines_japan_entertainers_dc_1

Basically Japan, like most asian nations, has in the past allowed individuals the freedom of buying and selling sex.  Puritan America apparently finds this situation intolerable - fearing perhaps that pleasure might be had, or that women will find alternatives to working in sweatshops.  Hilarious to compare this 'human rights issue' - women voluntarily, nay eagerly, trying to enter Japan to make a good living - to the torture perpetrated by the US.

Japan is of course cowtowing to its christian masters, and has banned Philippinas from the traditional 'entertainment visa', condemning them to a life of poverty, and Japanese men to a life of wanking to comics.  The puritan juggernaut rolls on.

[AuH2O]

Look, just because you like 12 year old boys doesn't mean civilized people do... and Japan is a mostly civilized nation.

[DanielX]

Welcome to the Atlasian Wrestling Federation!

Today we see opebo and AuH20 face off in what only can be described as a brutal and bloody challenge!

<bell rings>

Begin!

[opebo]

Look, just because you like 12 year old boys doesn't mean civilized people do... and Japan is a mostly civilized nation.

No, Japan was a civilized nation, and has always tolerated prostitution, until influenced by the christian US.

And of course, 12 year old boys have nothing to do with the story.  In fact what is available here in thailand, and asia in general, is typically a woman in her twenties or thirties.  So you seem to have a misaprehension of the industry - can't really blame you, considering you're no doubt exposed to a lot of christian right propaganda.

[DanielX]

And they're off! Opebo hits AuH20 with a far left hook - now it looks like Au's is going for a right jab..... it's going to be a long night, folks!

[opebo]

Welcome to the Atlasian Wrestling Federation!

Today we see opebo and AuH20 face off in what only can be described as a brutal and bloody challenge!

<bell rings>

Begin!

Hah, he's not capable of serious argument.  All opponents of prostitution immediately trot out the canard of pedophilia or homosexuality, when in fact the whole phenomenon is based on adult men purchasing sexual services from adult women.

[Tory]

Look, just because you like 12 year old boys doesn't mean civilized people do... and Japan is a mostly civilized nation.

In fact what is available here in thailand, and asia in general, is typically a woman in her twenties or thirties.  So you seem to have a misaprehension of the industry - can't really blame you, considering you're no doubt exposed to a lot of christian right propaganda.

We all know what Thailand is notorious for, so save it.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

We all know what Thailand is notorious for, so save it.

PING!  Obviously, that is why he is over there.

[opebo]

Look, just because you like 12 year old boys doesn't mean civilized people do... and Japan is a mostly civilized nation.

In fact what is available here in thailand, and asia in general, is typically a woman in her twenties or thirties.  So you seem to have a misaprehension of the industry - can't really blame you, considering you're no doubt exposed to a lot of christian right propaganda.

We all know what Thailand is notorious for, so save it.

Come have a look - its all quite out in the open and regulated.  You've been fed a lot of christian/puritan propaganda, as well as a bit of just plain old press-hype.  There's nothing here but a lot of women in their 20's and 30's (or older!) making good money.  Once in a great while, if one is very lucky, one might encounter an 18 or 19 year old.. but it is a rarity.  

True, the legal age of consent in Thailand is 15, but that has nothing to do with the sex business, which has a strictly enforced 18 year old age limit.

[DanielX]

Opebo leaps out of the ring and starts harassing the judge!

Okay, if you really want me to get in the ring....


You realize that a sizable portion of women in the illegal sex trade are, in fact, used as slaves or indentured servants, and are unable to leave whenever they wish. This problem is seen all over the world. Africa has this problem in spades. There are some instances even in the Southwestern US, as Asian and Hispanic women are smuggled in illegally, then are forced into the sex trade.

I am all for legallizing prostitution. I am, however, pointing out that I think the State Department, for once, has a point.

And opebo, regardless if we agree on some issues, you're a lunatic.  Or are faking your lunacy - it happens online all the time.

[opebo]

We all know what Thailand is notorious for, so save it.

PING!  Obviously, that is why he is over there.

He's suggesting the prostitutes here are underaged.  There is a lot of sex available here, all with quite adult women.  Personally I prefer women in their twenties or very early thirties - not so weird, as I'm 36 myself. 

[opebo]

Opebo leaps out of the ring and starts harassing the judge!

Okay, if you really want me to get in the ring....


You realize that a sizable portion of women in the illegal sex trade are, in fact, used as slaves or indentured servants, and are unable to leave whenever they wish. This problem is seen all over the world. Africa has this problem in spades. There are some instances even in the Southwestern US, as Asian and Hispanic women are smuggled in illegally, then are forced into the sex trade.

I am all for legallizing prostitution. I am, however, pointing out that I think the State Department, for once, has a point.

And opebo, regardless if we agree on some issues, you're a lunatic.  Or are faking your lunacy - it happens online all the time.

No, in fact all the participants I have observed here are quite eager to be involved - the money they make is comparable to what middle managers earn.  Not bad for moderately educated country girls who have quite often have a baby back home (Thai father).

There is absolutely no reason for anyone to kidnap or force anyone into a business that has tens of thousands of eager applicants flowing in at all times.

I understand, you come from a culture where the puritans would have you believe that having sex is the most horrible thing that can happen to a female.  In fact in much of the world it is simply a great way to get ahead - sure beats working in a sweatshop or some subsistence farm.

[AuH2O]

I'm not really against prostitution, though the human trafficking issue is a real one, not just a US push against adult prostitution.

It's a difficult topic to deal with from an ethical standpoint; opebo of course is not even close to being able to debate it. There are a number of feminists, by the way, that oppose prostitution.

I would debate it if anyone intelligent enough is interested.

[opebo]

I'm not really against prostitution, though the human trafficking issue is a real one, not just a US push against adult prostitution.

It's a difficult topic to deal with from an ethical standpoint; opebo of course is not even close to being able to debate it. There are a number of feminists, by the way, that oppose prostitution.

The key point about 'human trafficking' is the eager complicity of the women involved.  The idea of involuntarily trafficked people is almost entirely a religious-right/feminist myth.  Why bother using force when the line of applicants is practically breaking down your door?

Prostitution is not at all 'difficult to deal with from an ethical standpoint' if one has any respect for the privacy and freedom of the individual.

[MODU]

Come have a look - its all quite out in the open and regulated.  You've been fed a lot of christian/puritan propaganda, as well as a bit of just plain old press-hype.  There's nothing here but a lot of women in their 20's and 30's (or older!) making good money.  Once in a great while, if one is very lucky, one might encounter an 18 or 19 year old.. but it is a rarity.  

And of course, SE Asia is also known as the AIDS capital of the world. 

Been there, seen the massage parlors, and went back to my ship happy to know that I'm not bringing back one of the biggest killers of the modern world with me.  There's more behind prostitution than just sex son.  Maybe when you grow up and think of their consequences, you'll learn to understand why it is illegal/immoral.  Just because "it's been done for forever" doesn't mean it's right. 

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

We all know what Thailand is notorious for, so save it.

PING!  Obviously, that is why he is over there.

He's suggesting the prostitutes here are underaged.  There is a lot of sex available here, all with quite adult women.  Personally I prefer women in their twenties or very early thirties - not so weird, as I'm 36 myself. 

Actually, I was suggesting you were there to have sexual relations with more than just women.

[opebo]

And of course, SE Asia is also known as the AIDS capital of the world. 

No, that's Subsaharan Africa.  I thought everyone knew that - have you been hiding under a rock for the last couple of decades?

[opebo]

We all know what Thailand is notorious for, so save it.

PING!  Obviously, that is why he is over there.

He's suggesting the prostitutes here are underaged.  There is a lot of sex available here, all with quite adult women.  Personally I prefer women in their twenties or very early thirties - not so weird, as I'm 36 myself. 

Actually, I was suggesting you were there to have sexual relations with more than just women.

That's a bit vague.  But seriously - if I preferred sex with males, THAT would definitely be redily available in the US.  It is the fact that I'm a lazy 99% hetero that drives me to the nations of the easier lay.
Besides, its getting pretty damn difficult to find anything back in the United States of Fat if your 'type' is the waif.

[AuH2O]

Many feminist intellectuals oppose prostitution because it actually hurts women's rights by reinforcing societal structures and relationships that oppress women. Like I said, this is all stuff way out of opebo's intellectual league (which would be T-ball at best).

[opebo]

Many feminist intellectuals oppose prostitution because it actually hurts women's rights by reinforcing societal structures and relationships that oppress women. Like I said, this is all stuff way out of opebo's intellectual league (which would be T-ball at best).

Yes, religious and feminists are pretty much on the same side on this one - against freedom.

[AuH2O]

Being oppressed is a freedom?

Are all prostitutes rational?

If so, are all people rational?

You see, opebo, intelligent people see issues in more than black and white.

[opebo]

Being oppressed is a freedom?

Are all prostitutes rational?

If so, are all people rational?

You see, opebo, intelligent people see issues in more than black and white.

Oppressed by employment?  Are you a socialist now Goldman?

I thought you were supposed to be on the Right, where one must bear the burden of his or her own rationality or irrationality.

[AuH2O]

Being oppressed is a freedom?

Are all prostitutes rational?

If so, are all people rational?

You see, opebo, intelligent people see issues in more than black and white.

Oppressed by employment?  Are you a socialist now Goldman?

I thought you were supposed to be on the Right, where one must bear the burden of his or her own rationality or irrationality.

Well, actually I was addressing whether prostitution is moral, not whether it should be legal, since those are different things.

If you referred to a previous post of mine, that would be quite clear... well, I am assuming you can read, which in hindsight was a mistake.

[opebo]

Being oppressed is a freedom?

Are all prostitutes rational?

If so, are all people rational?

You see, opebo, intelligent people see issues in more than black and white.

Oppressed by employment?  Are you a socialist now Goldman?

I thought you were supposed to be on the Right, where one must bear the burden of his or her own rationality or irrationality.

Well, actually I was addressing whether prostitution is moral, not whether it should be legal, since those are different things.

If you referred to a previous post of mine, that would be quite clear... well, I am assuming you can read, which in hindsight was a mistake.

I dismiss out of hand any discussion of 'morality' of that patronizing sort.  Its none of your business if something is good for someone, if they choose to do it.

[Erc]

Being oppressed is a freedom?

Are all prostitutes rational?

If so, are all people rational?

You see, opebo, intelligent people see issues in more than black and white.

Oppressed by employment?  Are you a socialist now Goldman?

I thought you were supposed to be on the Right, where one must bear the burden of his or her own rationality or irrationality.

If that "Goldman" reference was a clever play on words of AUH20 and Emma Goldman (who was an anarchist anyway), then I give opebo some serious brownie points for actually coming up with a witty name-based retort (perhaps the first one ever to be seen on this forum...).

However, since I'm pretty sure that's far beyond opebo's level of intelligence...no brownie points for you today.