Can Congress pass laws saying that States don't count as part of the Union?
A18:
Like the North did with the 14th amendment?
Because if so, we should just throw all the northeastern States out and require that they ratify the Liberty Amendment to get back in.
If not, then the fourteenth amendment is null and void.
Peter:
Okay, there's a few issues here; I'll deal with them one by one.
From a strict legal sense, a State cannot be kicked out of the Union, though it can have its government declared illegal. The first part of this was affirmed by Texas v. White (though a bad opinion, it is nonetheless the standing legal interpretation); The second part is derived from Article IV, Section 4:
"The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government..."
If the United States, through the Congress determines the State is no longer under a Republican government, it can cease to recognise the government. The best place for this determination is obviously through the Congress.
A good question is now: Does this affect the counts for Amendments?
I would say it does, as the language of Article V does not allow for States to be discounted for any reason.
Once the United States Congress was happy that the government of the States was Republican, it then recognised them.
According to this, they ratified in the order shown and gained the required 28 States of the day.
Whether the United States decided to not recognise the Southern States government as Republican for political reasons I cannot tell you, mostly because I don't know the history of the period well enough, but I can tell you that the Congress can stop recognising State's governments.
A18:
With respect to the Republican Government clause, I have always regarded it as a safeguard against federal tyranny; for example, no one could set himself up as a dictator by Constitutional Amendment or anything else.
Peter:
Quote from: Philip on January 10, 2005, 07:28:23 PM
With respect to the Republican Government clause, I have always regarded it as a safeguard against federal tyranny; for example, no one could set himself up as a dictator by Constitutional Amendment or anything else.
In fact it is both; First of all it guarantees that the federal government will govern in a Republican manner, it also guarantees that the States will govern in a Republican manner. It is a little used section of the Constitution as far as I am aware. I'll try to track down some sort of precedent or writing on it.
A18:
The clause does not require anything of any State, but only of the States collectively, referring to the federal government.
But even if we pretend it did for a minute, I don't see that it matters.
The States were declared "out of the Union" until readmitted; and they were forced to ratify the 14th amendment to get statehood back. It had nothing to do with whether the State governments were "Republican" enough.
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