UK General Discussion

[Leftbehind]

HOL passed the gay marriage bill.

Also, lol:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22764884

[afleitch]

The Church of England has effectively given up opposing equal marriage, at least politically.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

The Church of England has effectively given up opposing equal marriage, at least politically.

If they did, they risk splitting both themselves and the Communion over the issue wouldn't they?  (Not that the latter isn't likely to happen anyway.)

[Goodwin]

The controversial Bilderberg conference is taking place in Watford today and will run through to Sunday. A lot of political activists, as well as members of the media (I believe Sky News has some coverage), will be present over the next 4 days. A lot of security is around.

According to the official guest list, Ken Clarke, George Osborne and Ed Balls will be attending at some point over the next few days.

Wikipedia page for Bilderberg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilderberg_Group

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KapTRbwDGKM (Labour MP Michael Meacher being interviewed at Bilderberg)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-22793804 (Watford mayor expressing her concern)

[Serenity Now]

So Ed Balls announces that Labour will stick to Tory spending targets if they win the next election. Always a joy to hear.

No need for me to remember to vote at the next general election then..

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Convicted criminal Brian Coleman (ex-GLA member for Barnet & Camden, current Barnet councillor and general egotistical arsehole - but then you all knew that) has been expelled from the Conservative Party. He has, however, stated his intention to run for re-election next year on a 'platform of proper Conservative values'. Presumably these values include running up vast taxi bills at public expense and beating up women who have the temerity to film him illegal parking in loading bays.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Convicted criminal Brian Coleman (ex-GLA member for Barnet & Camden, current Barnet councillor and general egotistical arsehole - but then you all knew that) has been expelled from the Conservative Party. He has, however, stated his intention to run for re-election next year on a 'platform of proper Conservative values'. Presumably these values include running up vast taxi bills at public expense and beating up women who have the temerity to film him illegal parking in loading bays.

Will he be joining UKIP or be an independent asshole.

[Meridian Blue]

Opinium: LAB 37%(nc), CON 26%(-1), UKIP 21%(+1), LDEM 6%(-1)

6% is the lowest I've ever seen them - 7 seems to be their absolute baseline with YouGov. This also had the Greens and SNP on 4%.

Apologies to drag this back up.

Greens may poll 4%, realistically, they won't gain any more seats. Their sole concentration will be the retention of Brighton Pavilion. Being a Brighton resident, and knowing many Green voters, Lucas will need a miracle to hold that seat after what the GP B&H party has done to the city. Lucas has distanced herself from the Council due to its horrific management of the city, and complete U-turn on their pre-election promises.

Jason Kitcat (I sh**t you not, that's his name) is on a personal mission, and has been consistently ignoring the voices of the city in order to pursue his own agenda. And what a mess he has done.

Lucas will either stand as an independent, or defect to Labour. I would guess it'll be a defection. She stands no hope of retaining the seat as a Green candidate as a result of local issues. Which is a shame, I dislike her policies, but she's the type of politician we need. People with convictions, and the courage to well and truly stand for what they and their constituents believe.

I believe her standing down as party leader had something to do with the local council, as she has begun to speak against them. I.e. Supporting the refuse workers' striker when the Greens announced a £4,000 pay cut + increase in hours (An incredibly Tory policy)..

Essentially, people think Clegg was/is bad. You should see and listen to Kitcat.

[Silent Hunter]

So Ed Balls announces that Labour will stick to Tory spending targets if they win the next election. Always a joy to hear.

No need for me to remember to vote at the next general election then..

That's not quite what he said (from Labourlist):

"But we cannot rely on George Osborne to see sense. So Labour must start planning now for what will be a very difficult inheritance in 2015.

The plans in this year’s spending review will be our starting point, but we will have to find efficiency savings and switch resources to Labour’s priorities. And we will also need to set out plans to invest in the homes, schools and infrastructure we need to build for the future".

[You kip if you want to...]

So Ed Balls announces that Labour will stick to Tory spending targets if they win the next election. Always a joy to hear.

No need for me to remember to vote at the next general election then..

That's not quite what he said (from Labourlist):

"But we cannot rely on George Osborne to see sense. So Labour must start planning now for what will be a very difficult inheritance in 2015.

The plans in this year’s spending review will be our starting point, but we will have to find efficiency savings and switch resources to Labour’s priorities. And we will also need to set out plans to invest in the homes, schools and infrastructure we need to build for the future".

Basically, a lot of what the Liberals and the Tories have done is irreparable.

And it's true what Ed said about priorities. With the country in the state it's in, the poor especially, giving child benefit back to the better off isn't exactly what a Labour chancellor should waltz into the treasury and do on day one.

[Leftbehind]

I'd find this 'we need to make use of what money we have' easier to accept if Labour were looking seriously at recouping as much money as they can - the cut itself doesn't even save much, but Labour still seem willing to sacrifice universality for it. Yet you can't even get them to commit to re-instating the 50p tax rate (consequently making their opposition to it completely hollow) and where was their opposition to the repeated slashing of the corporation tax to a record low? That's just two examples of an innumerable amount that discredits the 'make-do' excuse for why continuing the Tories' cuts and austerity are right when Labour do it, but wrong for the Tories. Really, I think this is just more Blairite triangulation, with all the familiar hallmarks - Miliband 'proving' he can show 'iron discipline' by conceding Tory ground (this is a relatively benign one, but I fully expect much more to come) and live in the 'sensible', 'real-world' now the election's dawning.

As you probably realise, I wasn't a committed Labour voter anyway but they've done well in dissuading me so far from voting Labour.  

 

[Silent Hunter]

Universality is no longer possible in our society... nor in many cases desirable.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The latest name to get dragged into the latest lobbying scandal is Tim Yeo, who actually holds a parliamentary position of some importance.

[YL]

Universality is no longer possible in our society... nor in many cases desirable.

Defending universality seems to be unfashionable these days, but means testing has its problems too.  In particular in many cases I worry that people who actually should be receiving the benefits end up not doing so because they slip through the net somehow or are embarrassed to apply.  (It depends exactly how you run the system, I suppose.)  And if you're prepared to have a reasonably progressive tax system which raises enough money then that's probably less bureaucratic, and hence actually more efficient, than means testing.

Now, if we're not prepared to have such a tax system (and here is the problem I suppose) then I'm not going to defend universal benefits against health, education, transport, science, arts, etc.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The idea that universality ought to be a dominant principle in social policy has been dead for longer than anyone posting in this thread has been alive. Since the 'rediscovery of poverty' (one of many) in the 1960s, actually. And much of the initial intellectual attack came from the Left.

Personally, though, I agree with YL. The old saw about a service for the poor being inevitably a poor service (I think that was Titmuss, though maybe he just popularised it) is often distressingly accurate.

[Silent Hunter]

Now, if we're not prepared to have such a tax system (and here is the problem I suppose) then I'm not going to defend universal benefits against health, education, transport, science, arts, etc.

It's not so much an issue with the tax system as society. People are living longer - and they're needing state provision for longer. Diseases that would have killed most people straight off back in 1948 are now merely putting them out of the workforce for an extended period of time; which while a good thing of course, means more requirement for benefits for those people. Also, we've not had full employment since the early 1970s.

So, it's right we direct benefits to those who need it as a priority - the rest is ultimately a luxury.

[Leftbehind]

Means testing undermines the aim of directing them to the most needy - already £16bn of benefits go unclaimed because people don't wish to/can't tackle the complex forms needed to prove you're poor enough to deserve them (let alone the stigma that comes attached with it). If we can't afford them then raise the income tax on those wealthy who don't need them instead, or reverse this endless drive to let businesses use our society and pay record lows back.

[Leftbehind]

The controversial Bilderberg conference is taking place in Watford today and will run through to Sunday. A lot of political activists, as well as members of the media (I believe Sky News has some coverage), will be present over the next 4 days. A lot of security is around.

According to the official guest list, Ken Clarke, George Osborne and Ed Balls will be attending at some point over the next few days.

Wikipedia page for Bilderberg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilderberg_Group

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KapTRbwDGKM (Labour MP Michael Meacher being interviewed at Bilderberg)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-22793804 (Watford mayor expressing her concern)

Why the F**K did the BBC have US conspiracy nutjob on Sunday Politics over this?! To discredit legitimate inquiry? Because that's what it seems like. Hoho what an awful interview - as if they were expecting anything else.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jun/10/david-blunkett-review-intelligence-oversight-law

[You kip if you want to...]

Angus Robertson and the SNP must be pretty vile to get me agreeing pretty fervently with Nigel Farage on last night's QT.

[freefair]

Angus Robertson and the SNP must be pretty vile to get me agreeing pretty fervently with Nigel Farage on last night's QT.

I don't mind the SNP usually but you're right, The Journalist lady was pretty awful too. I diagree with Galloway on almost everything but found myself In near total agreement with him throughout the show on the issues raised.

[Silent Hunter]

Queen's Birthday Honours have been announced... and for the first time ever, Baldrick outranks Blackadder.

[You kip if you want to...]

What was that Nige'? "Corrupt establishment"?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-set-up-offshore-1972988

[Leftbehind]

Awesome Mitchell rant re Tories, awfulness, austerity, gay-marriage etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4xBbcCpfDc

[Supersonic]

Awesome Mitchell rant re Tories, awfulness, austerity, gay-marriage etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4xBbcCpfDc

I thought this was Andrew Mitchell, Tory MP going off on one, but nah.

Either way, I can't abide David Mitchell.