Canada General Discussion

[minionofmidas - supplemental forum account]

Good.

[RogueBeaver]

Charest wants a healthcare rebate.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/charest-demands-debate-on-unacceptable-federal-health-deal/article2304097/

Fletcher's temporarily on leave.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1116264--junior-transport-minister-steven-fletcher-takes-leave-for-medical-reasons

[RogueBeaver]

PM rejects health innovation fund. Sheesh, these people get a longer leash and they complain. Then again, premiers always act that way no matter the party/PM in power.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/01/16/pol-premiers-monday.html

[RogueBeaver]

Your opinions? I think the Grits aren't assured of recovery, but for now are on the path.

http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/canada/340364/un-parti-en-remission

[Holmes]

Radio interview with Lise St-Denis.

http://www.985fm.ca/audioplayer.php?mp3=121620

For non-French speakers:

Host says no one voted for her or for the Liberal Party, just for Layton. Says she betrayed them. She said no, she cares about constituents, not betrayal but democracy. Host says she should ask her constituents directly what they think. She says that she's worked hard and she won't resign, and that they voted for her. Host says no, no one voted for her and she was hardly ever even there. The people voted NDP, not her, not the Liberals that placed in fourth, and not even eight months later, she bails. Is it honest? She says yes.

She endorsed Mulcair in November. She decided to switch to the Liberals in early December. Didn't change because of Mulcair. In between, she felt a lot of negativity (?). Says he has a doctrinaire attitude. She called Coderre, then Rae, they had talks but kept silent before her announcement.

[RogueBeaver]

Am I the only one who considers this whole floor-crossing a tempest in a teapot?

[Holmes]

This one? I don't think so. But how many times has an NDP MP crossed the floor before?

[RogueBeaver]

The Dipper MP for Nunavut defected to the Grits in the early '80s. Though given that the Grits were then led by a social democrat, not a huge difference.

[RogueBeaver]

PM's interview w/Mansbridge.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/01/17/pol-harper-iran.html


Any bets as to who wins this one?

http://www.hilltimes.com/feature/politics/2012/01/17/the-fighter-starring-liberal-mp-trudeau-and-tory-senator-brazeau/29320

[RogueBeaver]

Paul Wells promoted to Maclean's political editor. As a longtime subscriber I welcome the move...

http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/01/17/political-editor/

[RogueBeaver]

Talk about overkill. Sheesh, you'd think one of the vedettes defected from all this hysteria.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/ndp-hits-back-at-quebec-defector-with-robo-calls-online-petition/article2305862/

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

When she said "NDP Attitudes" about certain things, the media was like "wha" but I know exactly what she means.

One small example is just after 9-11. I was on the PEI NDP executive, and they were discussing our reaction to the idea that the US might want to refuel airplanes going to and from Afghanistan on PEI.

I said that I didn't personally have a problem with that, but that I'd go along with what they agree, but that I don't think it's a big deal.

I just got cold stares from across the table. The President had to intervene as one of the other members looked like she was about to say something nasty.

Apparently, the debate was weather to protest loudly or even more loudly, because CLEARLY this idea HAS to be wrong. I got the feeling that just for disagreeing that somehow I was less of a man, that just for having this idea, that I MUST be stupid.

And that's just one incident on one issue.

That is why I left the NDP and still hate the NDP.

[RogueBeaver]

The '90s NDP was in decline for a reason, but the NDP Layton built is presumably free from that sort of dogmatism. You can still see that thing among PQ orthodoxes, who threw out every PQ leader except Parizeau for failing their purity test.

Grits aren't that dogmatic given their history as a brokerage party, but they also have their quirks. Especially the incredibly irksome "evidence-based" line. It's choir-preaching which doesn't do a thing to recapture Tim Hortons voters, even from people who know better like Rae, Dosanjh and Trudeau.

[RogueBeaver]

Don't bitch, fight back. We can take a few media punches.

http://www.hilltimes.com/news/politics/2012/01/17/third-party-advertising-spending-should-be-restricted-between-elections/29321
 

[Hatman 🍁]

The Dipper MP for Nunavut defected to the Grits in the early '80s. Though given that the Grits were then led by a social democrat, not a huge difference.

Dont forget Angela Vatour, who switched to the PCs in the late 90s.

But, there have been a small number to switch our way. I know Alex Cullen crossed the floor in the Ontario Assembly from Lib to NDP.

[Hatman 🍁]

Talk about overkill. Sheesh, you'd think one of the vedettes defected from all this hysteria.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/ndp-hits-back-at-quebec-defector-with-robo-calls-online-petition/article2305862/

That's awesome, I hope it worked.

As for the NDP being so domatic. Well sure, it's a party of ideology. So are the Tories. If you hate ideology, then vote Liberal. I'm very ideological, and while I don't agree with the NDP on everything, I can at least know that with the NDP, they would stand up for what they believe in (which for the most part, is the same as me). The Liberals on the other hand would waver too and fro, supporting some of the things I like but some things I hate.

Look at McGuinty... he was more pragmatic when it came to raising the minimum wage, which I think was better than the NDP's approach. But then he did stupid stuff like implement doggy-genocide with the pitbull ban. Of course, there are other examples, but for some reason that's what I'm most reminded of.

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

All the Liberal meetings I've been to were about strategy, sales, marketing, "how to win".

The one Conservative meeting I went to was very wide-ranging, focusing on what policies that would sell in the riding, selling strategies, and fundraising opportunities.

[RogueBeaver]

No bets on the prizefight?

[Hatman 🍁]

All the Liberal meetings I've been to were about strategy, sales, marketing, "how to win".

The one Conservative meeting I went to was very wide-ranging, focusing on what policies that would sell in the riding, selling strategies, and fundraising opportunities.

Sounds like most NDP meetings I've been to. I bet the NDP in PEI is very different than the rest of the country.

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

I'm not sure you catch what I mean. The NDP did talk about how to sell their ideas, but there was always this atmosphere of "because our policies will truly do good"

[Holmes]

... so people in Conservative and Liberal meetings don't believe their policies will do good? Then why advocate for them?

[RogueBeaver]

For once I agree with Simpson: the premiers are professional bitchers.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/jeffrey-simpson/why-harper-is-tuning-out-the-premiers/article2305684/

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

... so people in Conservative and Liberal meetings don't believe their policies will do good? Then why advocate for them?

They believe that THEY can do good.

[Holmes]

NDP believe that their policies do good, but Liberals and Conservatives believe that they, as persons, do good?

I don't understand what you're saying, man.

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

Think Mother Teresa VS a Flower Child.