The Real Paul Scandal

[BigSkyBob]

http://rightwingnews.com/election-2012/statement-from-fmr-ron-paul-staffer-on-newsletters-anti-semitism/

The author focuses on nonsense and overlooks the real scandal, which is Ron Paul's association with Jim Peron.

The article mentions Peron as the "very openly gay" owner of  the Laissez Faire Books bookstore. What it didn't mention is the fact that the Laissez Faire bookstore hosted NAMBLA meetings. It is one thing to be "flamboyant," it is quite another to facilitate the advocacy of pedophilia.

I would suggest anyone interested in the story research the NAMBLA meetings that took place in his bookstore, the publication "Unbound," the article "One Boy's Story" written by "Jim Peron" in "Unbound," and, the reasons why Jim Peron is no longer welcome in New Zealand.

At this point, it would behoove Ron Paul to denounce Jim Peron with every breath in his body and every fiber of his being!

[tpfkaw]

Lolbob

You do realize that the author of that article is Eric Dondero, internet troll extraordinaire.

[BigSkyBob]

Lolbob

You do realize that the author of that article is Eric Dondero, internet troll extraordinaire.

Why he is at it, Paul ought to denounce Dondero for his white-washing of Peron's past.

[CatoMinor]

I think you would have fit in perfectly in the McCarthy era.

[Averroës Nix]

Would you mind pulling out a relevant quote or two so that I don't have to plow through this guy's atrocious writing and the awful web design of what seems to be a disreputable website?

A link to a more mainstream source would also be helpful.

[TheGlobalizer]

Lolbob

You do realize that the author of that article is Eric Dondero, internet troll extraordinaire.

[BigSkyBob]

Would you mind pulling out a relevant quote or two so that I don't have to plow through this guy's atrocious writing and the awful web design of what seems to be a disreputable website?

A link to a more mainstream source would also be helpful.

1) "In 1988, Ron had a hardcore Libertarian supporter, Jim Peron, Owner of Laissez Faire Books in San Francisco. Jim set up a magnificent 3-day campaign swing for us in the SF Bay Area. Jim was what you would call very openly Gay. But Ron thought the world of him. For 3 days we had a great time trouncing from one campaign event to another with Jim’s Gay lover. The atmosphere was simply jovial between the four of us."

2) As the eyewitness account of one of the four people in Ron Paul's "group" those three days, I do not see how any other article could have be more authoritative.


Surely, politicians ought to be held responsible for the company they keep. Palling around with the host of the local NAMBLA chapter doesn't reflect very well on Ron Paul.

Jim Peron was electoral poison in New Zealand, and is apt to be, again, in America.

Ron Paul, do the right thing, and denounce Jim Peron with every fiber in your being!

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Go get 'em tiger!

[Averroës Nix]

Thanks for the clarification. But is the case against Peron as clear-cut as you're putting it? I don't know anything about him, and Google isn't helpful.

[BigSkyBob]

Thanks for the clarification. But is the case against Peron as clear-cut as you're putting it? I don't know anything about him, and Google isn't helpful.

Try "Jim Peron Unbound" in google.

Here is one hit:

http://jimperon.bravehost.com/lies.html

Articles like this explain nicely why Jim Peron is no longer welcome in New Zealand.

[BlueSwan]

OK, I had never even heard of NAMBLA, but from the little I just read on Wiki it they don't necessarily sound morally reprehensible. Some of the statements on wiki are fairly simple truths. Obviously someone below a fairly arbitrarily set age of consent can have a meaningful relationship with someone over that arbitrarily set age.

What the age of consent should be and indeed if it is even reasonable to have such a concept given the vast individual differences between people, is actually the subject of serious debate amongst professionalt, that does not say anything about the morality of the people on either side of the debate. You can make a sound argument for having an age of content as well as for not having one.

So basically, as long as NAMBLA are against ANY sort of coercion in sexual relations, then I think it is problematic to deem a person reprehensible for supporting that organisation.

[Averroës Nix]

Try "Jim Peron Unbound" in google.

Here is one hit:

http://jimperon.bravehost.com/lies.html

Articles like this explain nicely why Jim Peron is no longer welcome in New Zealand.

I saw that, as it's one of the first search results, but there's no reason to consider that a trustworthy and reputable source.

[BigSkyBob]

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The article in question by "Jim Peron" in Unbound tells the story of a young boy whom fondly remembered his boarding school masters as pedophiles, and, the thrill of their hands being placed on his bottom.

[BlueSwan]

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The article in question by "Jim Peron" in Unbound tells the story of a young boy whom fondly remembered his boarding school masters as pedophiles, and, the thrill of their hands being placed on his bottom.

How old is this "Young boy" in question? If he's 17 I don't have any issue whatsoever with it. If he's 7 I have a big problem with it.

[BigSkyBob]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

The article in question by "Jim Peron" in Unbound tells the story of a young boy whom fondly remembered his boarding school masters as pedophiles, and, the thrill of their hands being placed on his bottom.

How old is this "Young boy" in question? If he's 17 I don't have any issue whatsoever with it. If he's 7 I have a big problem with it.

10ish.

[BigSkyBob]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

The article in question by "Jim Peron" in Unbound tells the story of a young boy whom fondly remembered his boarding school masters as pedophiles, and, the thrill of their hands being placed on his bottom.

How old is this "Young boy" in question? If he's 17 I don't have any issue whatsoever with it. If he's 7 I have a big problem with it.

He was 12:

http://danedgeofreason.blogspot.com/2009/09/peron-pedophile-sympathizer.html

Had he been 17, do you find this to be acceptable behavior for a boarding school instructor?

[Yelnoc]

Thanks for the clarification. But is the case against Peron as clear-cut as you're putting it? I don't know anything about him, and Google isn't helpful.

Try "Jim Peron Unbound" in google.

Here is one hit:

http://jimperon.bravehost.com/lies.html

Articles like this explain nicely why Jim Peron is no longer welcome in New Zealand.

Do you have a link to a reputable site?

[TheGlobalizer]

IMO, and Ron Paul aside, I think there's a slippery slope here.  So long as no one is taking action on it, I prefer not to question peoples' particular choices of sexual fantasies.

I imagine most hardcore libertarians would support the right of people to publish pedophile magazines, just as we ho-hum the publication of hardcore pornography and video games which reward you for headshots and blowing limbs off of bodies.  Child rape is the crime - not fapping to relatively perverted fantasies.

[BigSkyBob]

Thanks for the clarification. But is the case against Peron as clear-cut as you're putting it? I don't know anything about him, and Google isn't helpful.

Try "Jim Peron Unbound" in google.

Here is one hit:

http://jimperon.bravehost.com/lies.html

Articles like this explain nicely why Jim Peron is no longer welcome in New Zealand.

Do you have a link to a reputable site?

Da'Nile isn't just a river in Egypt.

If I were a Presidential candidate, and, a story was circulating that I spent three days palling around with the host of the local NAMBLA chapter meetings I would be denouncing the accusation as loudly and as vigorously, as I could,...

...if it were false.


Ron Paul has remained silent. AFAIK, Ron Paul was not denied spending three days palling around with the host of the local NAMBLA chapter.

[BigSkyBob]

IMO, and Ron Paul aside, I think there's a slippery slope here.  So long as no one is taking action on it, I prefer not to question peoples' particular choices of sexual fantasies.

And, I prefer that my neighbors not have certain choices of sexual fantasy; and, I prefer that the candidates that I support deeply condemn and distrust, not condone, their choice of "fantasy."

You must be logged in to read this quote.

That, in a nutshell, is why the "Libertarian" party never seems to break the 1% barrier.

[TheGlobalizer]

Da'Nile isn't just a river in Egypt.

If I were a Presidential candidate, and, a story was circulating that I spent three days palling around with the host of the local NAMBLA chapter meetings I would be denouncing the accusation as loudly and as vigorously, as I could,...

...if it were false.

Ron Paul has remained silent. AFAIK, Ron Paul was not denied spending three days palling around with the host of the local NAMBLA chapter.

If I'm Ron Paul, I don't exasperatedly deny every bizarre claim of two-bit former associates.  It would make him look...two-bit.

IMO, and Ron Paul aside, I think there's a slippery slope here.  So long as no one is taking action on it, I prefer not to question peoples' particular choices of sexual fantasies.

And, I prefer that my neighbors not have certain choices of sexual fantasy; and, I prefer that the candidates that I support deeply condemn and distrust, not condone, their choice of "fantasy."

You must be logged in to read this quote.

That, in a nutshell, is why the "Libertarian" party never seems to break the 1% barrier.

And the moralists reap what they sow.  Fight the culture war on the national level and you get coastal morality imposed in the heartland.  Try to control peoples' minds and you get claims of racism every time you oppose a black president.  Etc.

I don't dispute your point about the electoral fallout, but I think there's a strong case to be made that drawing the line based on mental state (rather than conduct) cuts both ways, and more often to the detriment of the moralists.

[BigSkyBob]

Da'Nile isn't just a river in Egypt.

If I were a Presidential candidate, and, a story was circulating that I spent three days palling around with the host of the local NAMBLA chapter meetings I would be denouncing the accusation as loudly and as vigorously, as I could,...

...if it were false.

Ron Paul has remained silent. AFAIK, Ron Paul was not denied spending three days palling around with the host of the local NAMBLA chapter.

If I'm Ron Paul, I don't exasperatedly deny every bizarre claim of two-bit former associates.  It would make him look...two-bit.

This isn't a "bizarre claim." It is an eyewitness account on Ron Paul's whereabouts for three days during the 1988 campaign.  Toilet-gate might very well be a two-bit piece of gossip by a two-bit staffer, but, the underlying narrative where Ron Paul spent three days hanging out with the host of the local NAMBLA chapter is not.

People are judged by the company they keep. Ron Paul has to answer for palling around with Jim Peron. It is that simple.

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And, I prefer that my neighbors not have certain choices of sexual fantasy; and, I prefer that the candidates that I support deeply condemn and distrust, not condone, their choice of "fantasy."

You must be logged in to read this quote.

That, in a nutshell, is why the "Libertarian" party never seems to break the 1% barrier.
[/quote]

And the moralists reap what they sow.  Fight the culture war on the national level and you get coastal morality imposed in the heartland. [/quote]

Spare me the rhetorical crossdressing tactics. I am aware of what they are, and, am not stupid enough to take them seriously.

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Oh, I doubt the line you draw is quite a bright as you claim. In the publication "Unbound," there was a story "Abused: One Boy's Story" in which the author "Jim Peron" spoke fondly of his headmasters at his military school being pedophiles, and, the thrill he felt having their hands on his bottom. I'm sure that many of the readers of Unbound were in fact pedophiles. When you try to induce in pedophiles the "mental state" that boys 12-16 enjoy being molested you are breaking down any internal controls pedophiles may have against the "conduct" of molesting children.

[Ⓐnarchy in the ☭☭☭P!]

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Did he have any other association with Jim Peron after or before this? Is there any proof he knew about him being in NAMBLA at any point?

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Religion can be construed as "fantasy" too. Why not have the president condemn religion while attacking people's freedom of choice?

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First amendment. Was he personally molesting children? Covering up for those who were? No? Then he isn't breaking any laws.

[BigSkyBob]

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Did he have any other association with Jim Peron after or before this? Is there any proof he knew about him being in NAMBLA at any point? 

Again, all I am asking is that Ron Paul acknowledge the sordid truth about Jim Peron, and denounce him.

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Religion can be construed as "fantasy" too. Why not have the president condemn religion while attacking people's freedom of choice? [/quote]

I'm pretty confident that most folks would rather have a theist living next door than a pedophile.

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First amendment. Was he personally molesting children? Covering up for those who were? No? Then he isn't breaking any laws.
[/quote]

Ron Paul is perfectly free to argue that he isn't denouncing Jim Peron because, in his opinion, Jim Peron did nothing illegal. Paul is free to take that stand, and 99.9% of the electorate is free to dismiss Paul from consideration for their vote based on that fact.

Standing for office, the last place you want to stand is beside a man whom hosted NAMBLA meetings in his bookstore.

[TheGlobalizer]

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Did he have any other association with Jim Peron after or before this? Is there any proof he knew about him being in NAMBLA at any point? 

Again, all I am asking is that Ron Paul acknowledge the sordid truth about Jim Peron, and denounce him.

Has this even made it onto anyone's radar?  I'm not sure Paul needs to address anything unless it attracts some critical mass.  I'm fairly certain he wouldn't "stand with" NAMBLA, but if I'm him I don't waste time on the diatribes of everyone who comes down the road with an allegation.

As for the substance, I'd want to Ron to reject child sexual abuse and child molestors and leave it at that.

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Religion can be construed as "fantasy" too. Why not have the president condemn religion while attacking people's freedom of choice?

I'm pretty confident that most folks would rather have a theist living next door than a pedophile.[/quote]

I'm pretty confident that most folks would rather have a white Christian living next door than an Arab Muslim, but that doesn't mean that it's appropriate to throw Arab Muslims in jail for believing that there is only one god, and Mohammed is his prophet.

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First amendment. Was he personally molesting children? Covering up for those who were? No? Then he isn't breaking any laws.

Ron Paul is perfectly free to argue that he isn't denouncing Jim Peron because, in his opinion, Jim Peron did nothing illegal. Paul is free to take that stand, and 99.9% of the electorate is free to dismiss Paul from consideration for their vote based on that fact.

Standing for office, the last place you want to stand is beside a man whom hosted NAMBLA meetings in his bookstore.
[/quote]

I'm fairly certain that if this issue "popped", he'd disavow knowledge of the man's proclivities and reject criminal child abuse and pedophilia.  He'd also say that people need to be careful before demonizing people for what they think or what they may have been associated with.

I'll also note that the criticism here is pretty close to becoming a homosexuality issue.  I doubt the same line of argument would gain the same reactions if it was a women writing about her joy/pleasure in being spanked by her teachers.  There would be some rejection of it, but you'd see a fair amount of other unsavory reactions as well.  To me, if a dude wants to write a fap piece about his own childhood sexual experiences (or even just childhood fantasies) then it's hard for me to judge it.  I wanted to screw a few of my teachers, so writing about it doesn't make me a pedophile just because some teachers might read the story and get off on it.