Israel and Palestine

[dunn]

When I say state of Israel, I do not mean as part of the USA

lol

I remember when I was first taught about Israel's creation.  I thought that it was silly place to put a nation of Jews. It didn't seem wise to put a few million Jews in the middle of tens of millions of Arabs. I said "why didn't we give them the Dakotas, its not like we were using them"

It was, is and will be their land. You heard about history, roots, etc.

[dunn]

Can I just say, the 45/55 deal was offered a while back and Yasser Arafat refused it and continued terror attacks on Israel, I am for that deal.

When you say 50-50 ot 55-45 do you mean of the wast bank and Gaza or of the all country? the offer was 96% of the teritories (west bank and Gaza)

[dunn]

Can I just say, the 45/55 deal was offered a while back and Yasser Arafat refused it and continued terror attacks on Israel, I am for that deal.

When you say 50-50 ot 55-45 do you mean of the wast bank and Gaza or of the all country? the offer was 96% of the teritories (west bank and Gaza)

I mean of the whole of Israel, I know it was 96% of the territories, after the conquest when they took Jerusalem they did say they would give all but Jerusalem to Palestine if the Arabs would sign a treaty to create peace in the region.

55-45 of the all country is way more then the teritories . the west bank and Gaza are 30%. and it was noever offerd. Alas ypu mean the greater Israel (Palestine) that was the under british mandat
 

[dunn]

are you sure it wasn't offered? I know they offered Gaza and the West Bank at one point, my friend said that they offered 45% of Israel before.

I know for a fact they offered all the land they conquered in 48 during the war with surrounding Arab nations

My friend you got all mix up.
No one will offer more then a return to 1949-1967 lines. the Arab nations invaded Israel, not an inch was taken from them until farther attacks in 56' 67' 73' (and most of it givem back). the 67' lines are the borders the un aprove, the question is the future of the west bank and Gaza. O/c many palestians want to destroy Israel

[dunn]

are you sure it wasn't offered? I know they offered Gaza and the West Bank at one point, my friend said that they offered 45% of Israel before.

I know for a fact they offered all the land they conquered in 48 during the war with surrounding Arab nations

My friend you got all mix up.
No one will offer more then a return to 1949-1967 lines. the Arab nations invaded Israel, not an inch was taken from them until farther attacks in 56' 67' 73' (and most of it givem back). the 67' lines are the borders the un aprove, the question is the future of the west bank and Gaza. O/c many palestians want to destroy Israel

The UN proposed splitting it ISralis 55%, Palestinians 45% in the late 30s, but the Palestinians refused at htat time.

No
That was Un resolution on 29/11/1947
the jews exepct, the arabs reject, the war started, in it's end Israels border was created (49' or 67; lines)/ they are official. As the late Aba Even used to say: "the arabs never miss an oportunity to miss an oportiunity"

[dunn]

I notice no one here supports it becoming entirely Palestine, or even split 50/50.

JFK,

The only question for me was whether or not I advocated the eradication of all Palestinians. But since I'm not that amoral, I voted for Israel being the sole state. However, I think Israel needs to do what it's in its best interests, and that may mean a two-state solution in the current political environment where the rest of the world, other than the U.S., seems to be strongly pro-Palestinian.

That's doubtful, I think. Few people like Sharon, but a lot of people are generally pro-Israel.

I don't think Sharon will win re-election, the stunt with Sheik Yassin was more to increase his falling popularity.

Sharon is 76 and will not run in 2007
If his goverment falls befor that time it's b/c a corruption buisness involving his sons

[dunn]

are you sure it wasn't offered? I know they offered Gaza and the West Bank at one point, my friend said that they offered 45% of Israel before.

I know for a fact they offered all the land they conquered in 48 during the war with surrounding Arab nations

My friend you got all mix up.
No one will offer more then a return to 1949-1967 lines. the Arab nations invaded Israel, not an inch was taken from them until farther attacks in 56' 67' 73' (and most of it givem back). the 67' lines are the borders the un aprove, the question is the future of the west bank and Gaza. O/c many palestians want to destroy Israel

The UN proposed splitting it ISralis 55%, Palestinians 45% in the late 30s, but the Palestinians refused at htat time.

No
That was Un resolution on 29/11/1947
the jews exepct, the arabs reject, the war started, in it's end Israels border was created (49' or 67; lines)/ they are official. As the late Aba Even used to say: "the arabs never miss an oportunity to miss an oportiunity"

I seemed to remember that it was first proposed in 1937...but other than that we're not differeing.

Gus you just made post #6666
the cabinet just decided will give any member a six pack...

[dunn]

isn't that 666 rather than 6666?

yeah

6666 is just for the 6pack

[dunn]

There's something I find EXTREMELY confusing in this thread. On numerous occasions, I have praised both JFK and Gustaf because they seem to have so much knowledge relative to other young people. But now I have a serious question for both Gustaf and JFK...

How is it you guys know so much about the United States and European history, but absolutely nothing about Israeli/Palestininan history...as Dunn pointed out in a polite fashion earlier in this thread?

I will tell you . First they do know a lot for young people , second the european and some american news organization are bias and don't give the historical facts

[dunn]

There's something I find EXTREMELY confusing in this thread. On numerous occasions, I have praised both JFK and Gustaf because they seem to have so much knowledge relative to other young people. But now I have a serious question for both Gustaf and JFK...

How is it you guys know so much about the United States and European history, but absolutely nothing about Israeli/Palestininan history...as Dunn pointed out in a polite fashion earlier in this thread?

I will tell you . First they do know a lot for young people , second the european and some american news organization are bias and don't give the historical facts

Look at my above post. Tell me what I've been wrong on.

I said you do know alot Gus
you do

[dunn]

There's something I find EXTREMELY confusing in this thread. On numerous occasions, I have praised both JFK and Gustaf because they seem to have so much knowledge relative to other young people. But now I have a serious question for both Gustaf and JFK...

How is it you guys know so much about the United States and European history, but absolutely nothing about Israeli/Palestininan history...as Dunn pointed out in a polite fashion earlier in this thread?

I will tell you . First they do know a lot for young people , second the european and some american news organization are bias and don't give the historical facts

Dunn, to be quite honest, your answer here is the one I was looking for. That was the point I was trying to make without really saying it...I wanted them to come to the conclusion themselves, since they are such smart young men. But I fear all I have done is stir up a hornet's nest that I did not intend to stir up!!! I actually have extremely high opinions of both of them and have said so in previous threads.

I thing you took it harder then they did....
These are fine young men and it's ok to be mistaken, In hebrew there is saying "not the shy one learns"

[dunn]

I know the Palestinian tactics have been pretty horrendous, they attacked Israel on Yom Kippur (sp?), the holiest day in the Jewish calendar which is pretty bad. I am not quite sure what you are implying?

well that was not the palestinians but Syria and Egypt

[dunn]

I am pro Israel, as I said, I probably know the most out of people in my year, one girl was arguing with me about making it solely Palestine because it is "their land" which it isn't, they sold lots of it to the Jews who then took more by force after the Arab nations attacked it, Israel never even wanted a war in the first place (or at least so I have read), I noticed that the issue of a 14 year old boy being forced to become a suicide bomber against his will was barely reported by the news, he gave himself up to Jewish soldiers, it is bloody horrendous that.

you are doing alright JFK
tell your fiend it is the land oh the jews since the bible, we are willing to split it, (most of ) the arabs wants us in the sea

[dunn]

I am pro Israel, as I said, I probably know the most out of people in my year, one girl was arguing with me about making it solely Palestine because it is "their land" which it isn't, they sold lots of it to the Jews who then took more by force after the Arab nations attacked it, Israel never even wanted a war in the first place (or at least so I have read), I noticed that the issue of a 14 year old boy being forced to become a suicide bomber against his will was barely reported by the news, he gave himself up to Jewish soldiers, it is bloody horrendous that.

JFK,

I know you are pro-Israel and I admire that a great deal. All I was saying is that the people who REPORT the news and the people who TEACH the classes in much of Europe are NOT pro-Israel. And because they are not pro-Israel, very little is devoted to making the Jewish case in the Middle East. For example, when was the last time one of your teachers pointed out to you that there has NEVER been a Palestinian state in the history of the world. Palestine was never a country, and the Palestinian people were essentially Middle Eastern nomads who lived in officially undeclared territory or in other nations.

I think you're seriously over-estimating the level of anti-Israel sentiment in countries like mine. The general opinion is that it's horrible. Basically. There is a lot of sympathy for Jews traditionally in both the Swedish Labour Party, the Conservatives and especially the Liberals. The Swedish liberals are like your typical whuzzy Limousine Liberals except for when it comes to Israel where they are often ultra-hawks.

Gustaf, he does not under-estimate, belibe me.

[dunn]

I am pro Israel, as I said, I probably know the most out of people in my year, one girl was arguing with me about making it solely Palestine because it is "their land" which it isn't, they sold lots of it to the Jews who then took more by force after the Arab nations attacked it, Israel never even wanted a war in the first place (or at least so I have read), I noticed that the issue of a 14 year old boy being forced to become a suicide bomber against his will was barely reported by the news, he gave himself up to Jewish soldiers, it is bloody horrendous that.

JFK,

I know you are pro-Israel and I admire that a great deal. All I was saying is that the people who REPORT the news and the people who TEACH the classes in much of Europe are NOT pro-Israel. And because they are not pro-Israel, very little is devoted to making the Jewish case in the Middle East. For example, when was the last time one of your teachers pointed out to you that there has NEVER been a Palestinian state in the history of the world. Palestine was never a country, and the Palestinian people were essentially Middle Eastern nomads who lived in officially undeclared territory or in other nations.

I think you're seriously over-estimating the level of anti-Israel sentiment in countries like mine. The general opinion is that it's horrible. Basically. There is a lot of sympathy for Jews traditionally in both the Swedish Labour Party, the Conservatives and especially the Liberals. The Swedish liberals are like your typical whuzzy Limousine Liberals except for when it comes to Israel where they are often ultra-hawks.

Gustaf, he does not under-estimate, belibe me.

Sure, people are critical of Israel, and I'd say most hate Sharon the way they hate Bush. But are they all pro-Palestinian and everything is heavily biased? No, I certainy wouldn't say that. I am not saying that it doesn't exist or is weak, but MarkDel is giving the impression that it's somehow a massive brain-washing going on, and I think that is exaggerating. I'd like my country to be more pro-Israel, but that isn't the point here. I think the view of ISarel is heavily influenced by the trafition of anti-semitism and that's pretty weak in Sweden.

Maybe Sweden is not, but most western europe is. MarkDel is so right here.
 

[dunn]

I am pro Israel, as I said, I probably know the most out of people in my year, one girl was arguing with me about making it solely Palestine because it is "their land" which it isn't, they sold lots of it to the Jews who then took more by force after the Arab nations attacked it, Israel never even wanted a war in the first place (or at least so I have read), I noticed that the issue of a 14 year old boy being forced to become a suicide bomber against his will was barely reported by the news, he gave himself up to Jewish soldiers, it is bloody horrendous that.

JFK,

I know you are pro-Israel and I admire that a great deal. All I was saying is that the people who REPORT the news and the people who TEACH the classes in much of Europe are NOT pro-Israel. And because they are not pro-Israel, very little is devoted to making the Jewish case in the Middle East. For example, when was the last time one of your teachers pointed out to you that there has NEVER been a Palestinian state in the history of the world. Palestine was never a country, and the Palestinian people were essentially Middle Eastern nomads who lived in officially undeclared territory or in other nations.

I think you're seriously over-estimating the level of anti-Israel sentiment in countries like mine. The general opinion is that it's horrible. Basically. There is a lot of sympathy for Jews traditionally in both the Swedish Labour Party, the Conservatives and especially the Liberals. The Swedish liberals are like your typical whuzzy Limousine Liberals except for when it comes to Israel where they are often ultra-hawks.

Gustaf, he does not under-estimate, belibe me.

Sure, people are critical of Israel, and I'd say most hate Sharon the way they hate Bush. But are they all pro-Palestinian and everything is heavily biased? No, I certainy wouldn't say that. I am not saying that it doesn't exist or is weak, but MarkDel is giving the impression that it's somehow a massive brain-washing going on, and I think that is exaggerating. I'd like my country to be more pro-Israel, but that isn't the point here. I think the view of ISarel is heavily influenced by the trafition of anti-semitism and that's pretty weak in Sweden.

Maybe Sweden is not, but most western europe is. MarkDel is so right here.
 

Maybe Sweden is not what? Anti-semitic? Anti-Israel? It depends on your definiotn on anti-Israel of course, but most people recognize Israel's right to existence, which is where I draw the line. Sure, a lot of people are more critical than I think is warranted, but that's different.

Did you notice we are the only one that 'should' thank part of the world for recognize our right to existence. Don't antbody has that right? Sweden?USA? Chile?Gambia?India?Vanutu?
It does have a name

[dunn]

Dunn,

Boy ain't that the truth...

Thank you MarkDel

[dunn]

JFK
You are brought up in a good area, with good education and you are a great guy. It's just that the world - including western Europe - is very diffrent from what you imagin (about this issue I mean)

[dunn]

I am pro Israel, as I said, I probably know the most out of people in my year, one girl was arguing with me about making it solely Palestine because it is "their land" which it isn't, they sold lots of it to the Jews who then took more by force after the Arab nations attacked it, Israel never even wanted a war in the first place (or at least so I have read), I noticed that the issue of a 14 year old boy being forced to become a suicide bomber against his will was barely reported by the news, he gave himself up to Jewish soldiers, it is bloody horrendous that.

JFK,

I know you are pro-Israel and I admire that a great deal. All I was saying is that the people who REPORT the news and the people who TEACH the classes in much of Europe are NOT pro-Israel. And because they are not pro-Israel, very little is devoted to making the Jewish case in the Middle East. For example, when was the last time one of your teachers pointed out to you that there has NEVER been a Palestinian state in the history of the world. Palestine was never a country, and the Palestinian people were essentially Middle Eastern nomads who lived in officially undeclared territory or in other nations.

I think you're seriously over-estimating the level of anti-Israel sentiment in countries like mine. The general opinion is that it's horrible. Basically. There is a lot of sympathy for Jews traditionally in both the Swedish Labour Party, the Conservatives and especially the Liberals. The Swedish liberals are like your typical whuzzy Limousine Liberals except for when it comes to Israel where they are often ultra-hawks.

Gustaf, he does not under-estimate, belibe me.

Sure, people are critical of Israel, and I'd say most hate Sharon the way they hate Bush. But are they all pro-Palestinian and everything is heavily biased? No, I certainy wouldn't say that. I am not saying that it doesn't exist or is weak, but MarkDel is giving the impression that it's somehow a massive brain-washing going on, and I think that is exaggerating. I'd like my country to be more pro-Israel, but that isn't the point here. I think the view of ISarel is heavily influenced by the trafition of anti-semitism and that's pretty weak in Sweden.

Maybe Sweden is not, but most western europe is. MarkDel is so right here.
 

Maybe Sweden is not what? Anti-semitic? Anti-Israel? It depends on your definiotn on anti-Israel of course, but most people recognize Israel's right to existence, which is where I draw the line. Sure, a lot of people are more critical than I think is warranted, but that's different.

Did you notice we are the only one that 'should' thank part of the world for recognize our right to existence. Don't antbody has that right? Sweden?USA? Chile?Gambia?India?Vanutu?
It does have a name

I never said that you should be thankful. But tell me then, how do you define being aginst Israel? Being sceptocal towards the current Israeli policy? Or what?

no
being hypocrat about Israel and/or jews. justifing terrorists in one place, denouncing them everywhere else. Not playing sports In Israel bc of the terror but playing in Istanbul/Moscow/Madrid etc.

[dunn]

Gus
17% of Italians - and Italy is not as bad as spain, France or Germany - said in a recent poll Israel don't have the right to exist.

[dunn]

Dunn,

Great points.

It's after 1am here but you made me stay and posting some good points...

[dunn]

I am pro Israel, as I said, I probably know the most out of people in my year, one girl was arguing with me about making it solely Palestine because it is "their land" which it isn't, they sold lots of it to the Jews who then took more by force after the Arab nations attacked it, Israel never even wanted a war in the first place (or at least so I have read), I noticed that the issue of a 14 year old boy being forced to become a suicide bomber against his will was barely reported by the news, he gave himself up to Jewish soldiers, it is bloody horrendous that.

JFK,

I know you are pro-Israel and I admire that a great deal. All I was saying is that the people who REPORT the news and the people who TEACH the classes in much of Europe are NOT pro-Israel. And because they are not pro-Israel, very little is devoted to making the Jewish case in the Middle East. For example, when was the last time one of your teachers pointed out to you that there has NEVER been a Palestinian state in the history of the world. Palestine was never a country, and the Palestinian people were essentially Middle Eastern nomads who lived in officially undeclared territory or in other nations.

I think you're seriously over-estimating the level of anti-Israel sentiment in countries like mine. The general opinion is that it's horrible. Basically. There is a lot of sympathy for Jews traditionally in both the Swedish Labour Party, the Conservatives and especially the Liberals. The Swedish liberals are like your typical whuzzy Limousine Liberals except for when it comes to Israel where they are often ultra-hawks.

Gustaf, he does not under-estimate, belibe me.

Sure, people are critical of Israel, and I'd say most hate Sharon the way they hate Bush. But are they all pro-Palestinian and everything is heavily biased? No, I certainy wouldn't say that. I am not saying that it doesn't exist or is weak, but MarkDel is giving the impression that it's somehow a massive brain-washing going on, and I think that is exaggerating. I'd like my country to be more pro-Israel, but that isn't the point here. I think the view of ISarel is heavily influenced by the trafition of anti-semitism and that's pretty weak in Sweden.

Maybe Sweden is not, but most western europe is. MarkDel is so right here.
 

Maybe Sweden is not what? Anti-semitic? Anti-Israel? It depends on your definiotn on anti-Israel of course, but most people recognize Israel's right to existence, which is where I draw the line. Sure, a lot of people are more critical than I think is warranted, but that's different.

Did you notice we are the only one that 'should' thank part of the world for recognize our right to existence. Don't antbody has that right? Sweden?USA? Chile?Gambia?India?Vanutu?
It does have a name

I never said that you should be thankful. But tell me then, how do you define being aginst Israel? Being sceptocal towards the current Israeli policy? Or what?

no
being hypocrat about Israel and/or jews. justifing terrorists in one place, denouncing them everywhere else. Not playing sports In Israel bc of the terror but playing in Istanbul/Moscow/Madrid etc.

The sports thing is a security decision, that I can't really give an opnion on, but few people do what you're now saying...justifying terrorism like that. That would be aminority definitely.

No
Thet justify it, sometimes not call it terror

[dunn]

I am pro Israel, as I said, I probably know the most out of people in my year, one girl was arguing with me about making it solely Palestine because it is "their land" which it isn't, they sold lots of it to the Jews who then took more by force after the Arab nations attacked it, Israel never even wanted a war in the first place (or at least so I have read), I noticed that the issue of a 14 year old boy being forced to become a suicide bomber against his will was barely reported by the news, he gave himself up to Jewish soldiers, it is bloody horrendous that.

JFK,

I know you are pro-Israel and I admire that a great deal. All I was saying is that the people who REPORT the news and the people who TEACH the classes in much of Europe are NOT pro-Israel. And because they are not pro-Israel, very little is devoted to making the Jewish case in the Middle East. For example, when was the last time one of your teachers pointed out to you that there has NEVER been a Palestinian state in the history of the world. Palestine was never a country, and the Palestinian people were essentially Middle Eastern nomads who lived in officially undeclared territory or in other nations.

I think you're seriously over-estimating the level of anti-Israel sentiment in countries like mine. The general opinion is that it's horrible. Basically. There is a lot of sympathy for Jews traditionally in both the Swedish Labour Party, the Conservatives and especially the Liberals. The Swedish liberals are like your typical whuzzy Limousine Liberals except for when it comes to Israel where they are often ultra-hawks.

Gustaf, he does not under-estimate, belibe me.

Sure, people are critical of Israel, and I'd say most hate Sharon the way they hate Bush. But are they all pro-Palestinian and everything is heavily biased? No, I certainy wouldn't say that. I am not saying that it doesn't exist or is weak, but MarkDel is giving the impression that it's somehow a massive brain-washing going on, and I think that is exaggerating. I'd like my country to be more pro-Israel, but that isn't the point here. I think the view of ISarel is heavily influenced by the trafition of anti-semitism and that's pretty weak in Sweden.

Maybe Sweden is not, but most western europe is. MarkDel is so right here.
 

Maybe Sweden is not what? Anti-semitic? Anti-Israel? It depends on your definiotn on anti-Israel of course, but most people recognize Israel's right to existence, which is where I draw the line. Sure, a lot of people are more critical than I think is warranted, but that's different.

Did you notice we are the only one that 'should' thank part of the world for recognize our right to existence. Don't antbody has that right? Sweden?USA? Chile?Gambia?India?Vanutu?
It does have a name

I never said that you should be thankful. But tell me then, how do you define being aginst Israel? Being sceptocal towards the current Israeli policy? Or what?

no
being hypocrat about Israel and/or jews. justifing terrorists in one place, denouncing them everywhere else. Not playing sports In Israel bc of the terror but playing in Istanbul/Moscow/Madrid etc.

The sports thing is a security decision, that I can't really give an opnion on, but few people do what you're now saying...justifying terrorism like that. That would be aminority definitely.

No
Thet justify it, sometimes not call it terror

Look here, I actually live here. VERY FEW PEOPLE ACTUALLY SUPPORT TERRORISM! Even 17% is a small minority. Too big yes, but still a minority.

Gus I don't know about Sweden but 17% is Italy and the one don't think Israel has a right to EXIST, way more support terrorism (if it's against jews and also americans, not a few left wing europeans were acctually glad about 9/11). And the numbers un Spain, Germany, France, Belguim, Nerherland are way worse

[dunn]

I am pro Israel, as I said, I probably know the most out of people in my year, one girl was arguing with me about making it solely Palestine because it is "their land" which it isn't, they sold lots of it to the Jews who then took more by force after the Arab nations attacked it, Israel never even wanted a war in the first place (or at least so I have read), I noticed that the issue of a 14 year old boy being forced to become a suicide bomber against his will was barely reported by the news, he gave himself up to Jewish soldiers, it is bloody horrendous that.

JFK,

I know you are pro-Israel and I admire that a great deal. All I was saying is that the people who REPORT the news and the people who TEACH the classes in much of Europe are NOT pro-Israel. And because they are not pro-Israel, very little is devoted to making the Jewish case in the Middle East. For example, when was the last time one of your teachers pointed out to you that there has NEVER been a Palestinian state in the history of the world. Palestine was never a country, and the Palestinian people were essentially Middle Eastern nomads who lived in officially undeclared territory or in other nations.

I think you're seriously over-estimating the level of anti-Israel sentiment in countries like mine. The general opinion is that it's horrible. Basically. There is a lot of sympathy for Jews traditionally in both the Swedish Labour Party, the Conservatives and especially the Liberals. The Swedish liberals are like your typical whuzzy Limousine Liberals except for when it comes to Israel where they are often ultra-hawks.

Gustaf, he does not under-estimate, belibe me.

Sure, people are critical of Israel, and I'd say most hate Sharon the way they hate Bush. But are they all pro-Palestinian and everything is heavily biased? No, I certainy wouldn't say that. I am not saying that it doesn't exist or is weak, but MarkDel is giving the impression that it's somehow a massive brain-washing going on, and I think that is exaggerating. I'd like my country to be more pro-Israel, but that isn't the point here. I think the view of ISarel is heavily influenced by the trafition of anti-semitism and that's pretty weak in Sweden.

Maybe Sweden is not, but most western europe is. MarkDel is so right here.
 

Maybe Sweden is not what? Anti-semitic? Anti-Israel? It depends on your definiotn on anti-Israel of course, but most people recognize Israel's right to existence, which is where I draw the line. Sure, a lot of people are more critical than I think is warranted, but that's different.

Did you notice we are the only one that 'should' thank part of the world for recognize our right to existence. Don't antbody has that right? Sweden?USA? Chile?Gambia?India?Vanutu?
It does have a name

I never said that you should be thankful. But tell me then, how do you define being aginst Israel? Being sceptocal towards the current Israeli policy? Or what?

no
being hypocrat about Israel and/or jews. justifing terrorists in one place, denouncing them everywhere else. Not playing sports In Israel bc of the terror but playing in Istanbul/Moscow/Madrid etc.

The sports thing is a security decision, that I can't really give an opnion on, but few people do what you're now saying...justifying terrorism like that. That would be aminority definitely.

No
Thet justify it, sometimes not call it terror

Look here, I actually live here. VERY FEW PEOPLE ACTUALLY SUPPORT TERRORISM! Even 17% is a small minority. Too big yes, but still a minority.

Gus I don't know about Sweden but 17% is Italy and the one don't think Israel has a right to EXIST, way more support terrorism (if it's against jews and also americans, not a few left wing europeans were acctually glad about 9/11). And the numbers un Spain, Germany, France, Belguim, Nerherland are way worse

The only people in Europe I know of who were actually HAPPY about 9/11 were Muslim children living in Europe. Most left-wingers aren't evil people who want people to die, you know. No offense, but I actually live here, and I think both you and MarkDel are letting your prejudices carry you away. I am well aware that Europe is not a great supporter of Israel and so on, but I don't think a lot of people actually wish you to die or anything like that.

You don't know the hatres toward Israelis and jews around the world. people that don't think Israel should exists want me dead. it's over 30% in Belguim for example

[dunn]

Dunn, if it's any consolation, they want me dead too. Similar people killed many of my relaties 60 years ago. It's like Amos Oz said: "70 years ago, European graffiti read Jews to Palestine. Today, it reads Jews out of Palestine. Don't be here, and don't be there. In other words, don't be."

I have many relatives and friends in Israel, and last I heard they didn't particularly want to be thrown into the sea. I can understand those emotions. I myself have no great desire to end up in a crematorium. But I probably should be more understanding of the rightful Lebensraum of the Filastini volk, whose land is occupied by judeobolshevik mongrels. Guess I just don't have enough compassion and tolerance for that argument. Does that make me a bad democrat?

I know some of them wants you dead too. we are brothers.

I didn't understand the last part was it a joke?