Israel general discussion

[DavidB.]

nooo, you joining the dark side

I'd never actually vote for them. Despite my left-wing economic views in Israel, my Zionism is still the right-wing type. But I'd prefer to have a Labour leader who is closer to me ideologically than one who stands further away from me.

[Kingpoleon]

Labour Leadership primaries will take place tomorrow. We are now down to 7 contenders and 5 big ones so I will refer to it as the war of the five beggar kings. I anticipate Peretz to make it to the second round the rest is too fuzzy to determine. The amount of energy spent on this campaign was incredible considering the party is dying. Results will be announced tomorrow night.

Meretz convention rejected a proposal to move into an open primaries system (US style) and the decision to call an early leadership election was rejected by the party's tribunal as unconstitutional. Gilon and his followers demand Galon to resign.

Party politics elsewhere is in a slumber.

I endorse Margalit tomorrow and call for him to break away with Livni to join Galon in some new Liberal-progressive bloc (let Peretz and Gilon build their 1950's socialist party)

Yeah, I'm voting for Margalit tomorrow.
Also, polls sent to Labour members in the last few days were absolutely hilarious: in one occasion, they sent the results of a 'final poll', then sent them again with a correction, then sent them again with ANOTHER correction. And then it happened with yet another 'poll', this time only one correction.

Is Margalit the most moderate?

[Hnv1]

Labour Leadership primaries will take place tomorrow. We are now down to 7 contenders and 5 big ones so I will refer to it as the war of the five beggar kings. I anticipate Peretz to make it to the second round the rest is too fuzzy to determine. The amount of energy spent on this campaign was incredible considering the party is dying. Results will be announced tomorrow night.

Meretz convention rejected a proposal to move into an open primaries system (US style) and the decision to call an early leadership election was rejected by the party's tribunal as unconstitutional. Gilon and his followers demand Galon to resign.

Party politics elsewhere is in a slumber.

I endorse Margalit tomorrow and call for him to break away with Livni to join Galon in some new Liberal-progressive bloc (let Peretz and Gilon build their 1950's socialist party)

Yeah, I'm voting for Margalit tomorrow.
Also, polls sent to Labour members in the last few days were absolutely hilarious: in one occasion, they sent the results of a 'final poll', then sent them again with a correction, then sent them again with ANOTHER correction. And then it happened with yet another 'poll', this time only one correction.

Is Margalit the most moderate?

As my old philosophy professor would have said, moderate is a concept with the extension of the empty set in Israel. I assume you're referring to dovish

And David, I do not believe in this great social injustice (data clearly points the other way), but I guess Ben Zaken is closest to what you're looking for (in Labour)

[Kingpoleon]

Labour Leadership primaries will take place tomorrow. We are now down to 7 contenders and 5 big ones so I will refer to it as the war of the five beggar kings. I anticipate Peretz to make it to the second round the rest is too fuzzy to determine. The amount of energy spent on this campaign was incredible considering the party is dying. Results will be announced tomorrow night.

Meretz convention rejected a proposal to move into an open primaries system (US style) and the decision to call an early leadership election was rejected by the party's tribunal as unconstitutional. Gilon and his followers demand Galon to resign.

Party politics elsewhere is in a slumber.

I endorse Margalit tomorrow and call for him to break away with Livni to join Galon in some new Liberal-progressive bloc (let Peretz and Gilon build their 1950's socialist party)

Yeah, I'm voting for Margalit tomorrow.
Also, polls sent to Labour members in the last few days were absolutely hilarious: in one occasion, they sent the results of a 'final poll', then sent them again with a correction, then sent them again with ANOTHER correction. And then it happened with yet another 'poll', this time only one correction.

Is Margalit the most moderate?

As my old philosophy professor would have said, moderate is a concept with the extension of the empty set in Israel. I assume you're referring to dovish

And David, I do not believe in this great social injustice (data clearly points the other way), but I guess Ben Zaken is closest to what you're looking for (in Labour)

I was actually referring to economics, as the two state solution is rather complicated, but I doubt Labour will ever be too pro-Palestine for me.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Labour Leadership primaries will take place tomorrow. We are now down to 7 contenders and 5 big ones so I will refer to it as the war of the five beggar kings. I anticipate Peretz to make it to the second round the rest is too fuzzy to determine. The amount of energy spent on this campaign was incredible considering the party is dying. Results will be announced tomorrow night.

Meretz convention rejected a proposal to move into an open primaries system (US style) and the decision to call an early leadership election was rejected by the party's tribunal as unconstitutional. Gilon and his followers demand Galon to resign.

Party politics elsewhere is in a slumber.

I endorse Margalit tomorrow and call for him to break away with Livni to join Galon in some new Liberal-progressive bloc (let Peretz and Gilon build their 1950's socialist party)

Yeah, I'm voting for Margalit tomorrow.
Also, polls sent to Labour members in the last few days were absolutely hilarious: in one occasion, they sent the results of a 'final poll', then sent them again with a correction, then sent them again with ANOTHER correction. And then it happened with yet another 'poll', this time only one correction.

Is Margalit the most moderate?

As my old philosophy professor would have said, moderate is a concept with the extension of the empty set in Israel. I assume you're referring to dovish

And David, I do not believe in this great social injustice (data clearly points the other way), but I guess Ben Zaken is closest to what you're looking for (in Labour)

I was actually referring to economics, as the two state solution is rather complicated, but I doubt Labour will ever be too pro-Palestine for me.

Well, Margalit runs on his business record and on cooperation between businesses and government, so you could say he's less of a socialist than, say, Peretz. But with the rest, I'm not entirely sure- Gabay, for example, was also a businessman, so who knows, he could be even more economically moderate. This election is less about ideology, and more about who can find a way to revive Labour.

[Hnv1]

Labour Leadership primaries will take place tomorrow. We are now down to 7 contenders and 5 big ones so I will refer to it as the war of the five beggar kings. I anticipate Peretz to make it to the second round the rest is too fuzzy to determine. The amount of energy spent on this campaign was incredible considering the party is dying. Results will be announced tomorrow night.

Meretz convention rejected a proposal to move into an open primaries system (US style) and the decision to call an early leadership election was rejected by the party's tribunal as unconstitutional. Gilon and his followers demand Galon to resign.

Party politics elsewhere is in a slumber.

I endorse Margalit tomorrow and call for him to break away with Livni to join Galon in some new Liberal-progressive bloc (let Peretz and Gilon build their 1950's socialist party)

Yeah, I'm voting for Margalit tomorrow.
Also, polls sent to Labour members in the last few days were absolutely hilarious: in one occasion, they sent the results of a 'final poll', then sent them again with a correction, then sent them again with ANOTHER correction. And then it happened with yet another 'poll', this time only one correction.

Is Margalit the most moderate?

As my old philosophy professor would have said, moderate is a concept with the extension of the empty set in Israel. I assume you're referring to dovish

And David, I do not believe in this great social injustice (data clearly points the other way), but I guess Ben Zaken is closest to what you're looking for (in Labour)

I was actually referring to economics, as the two state solution is rather complicated, but I doubt Labour will ever be too pro-Palestine for me.

Well that category doesn't apply here as well as we actually have socialists here and still have socialist institutions.

Margalit - New Labour (he also describes himself as such). Supports market initiative with state regulation and boost
Peretz - old school socialist, tradeunionist.
Bar Lev - making social democratic sounds but I doubt he knows all that much on economics.
Gabay - he was a businessman, doesn't make socialist proposals but rather populist-social proposals like his old mentor Kachlon
Herzog - central line democrat (Joe Biden).

So if we must draw a line then Herzog will be your moderate hero, Peretz will be the Sanders, Margalit will be D Miliband.

[Hnv1]

A novelty in Israeli politics, a live tracker for turnout
https://pub.kalfi.co.il

[America Needs R'hllor]

Just cast my vote for Erel Margalit. When I came into the voting station, they got really excited about a youth voting... I think our political system has a problem
Also, 17% turnout for less than 3 hours after the voting opened seems not terrible, right?

[Hnv1]

Just cast my vote for Erel Margalit. When I came into the voting station, they got really excited about a youth voting... I think our political system has a problem
Also, 17% turnout for less than 3 hours after the voting opened seems not terrible, right?

I saw the Jerusalem polling station. Loads of youth, probably students.

Not bad. Should be around 50-60% in the end I think

[America Needs R'hllor]

Just cast my vote for Erel Margalit. When I came into the voting station, they got really excited about a youth voting... I think our political system has a problem
Also, 17% turnout for less than 3 hours after the voting opened seems not terrible, right?

I saw the Jerusalem polling station. Loads of youth, probably students.

Not bad. Should be around 50-60% in the end I think

Considering I live in a Development town in the Galilee, and considering the rate youths leave these kinds of places, I guess it's justified to be surprised by the sight of any youth, let alone a youth voting in the Labour primaries.

[Hnv1]

Just cast my vote for Erel Margalit. When I came into the voting station, they got really excited about a youth voting... I think our political system has a problem
Also, 17% turnout for less than 3 hours after the voting opened seems not terrible, right?

I saw the Jerusalem polling station. Loads of youth, probably students.

Not bad. Should be around 50-60% in the end I think

Considering I live in a Development town in the Galilee, and considering the rate youths leave these kinds of places, I guess it's justified to be surprised by the sight of any youth, let alone a youth voting in the Labour primaries.

Karmiel?

anyway this is the lowest electorate ever. last proper primaries were 1996, and the biggest were 1981.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Just cast my vote for Erel Margalit. When I came into the voting station, they got really excited about a youth voting... I think our political system has a problem
Also, 17% turnout for less than 3 hours after the voting opened seems not terrible, right?

I saw the Jerusalem polling station. Loads of youth, probably students.

Not bad. Should be around 50-60% in the end I think

Considering I live in a Development town in the Galilee, and considering the rate youths leave these kinds of places, I guess it's justified to be surprised by the sight of any youth, let alone a youth voting in the Labour primaries.

Karmiel?

anyway this is the lowest electorate ever. last proper primaries were 1996, and the biggest were 1981.

Worse- Ma'alot.
Also, turnout at 20%, I guess it should increase when the workday is over.

[Hnv1]

Just cast my vote for Erel Margalit. When I came into the voting station, they got really excited about a youth voting... I think our political system has a problem
Also, 17% turnout for less than 3 hours after the voting opened seems not terrible, right?

I saw the Jerusalem polling station. Loads of youth, probably students.

Not bad. Should be around 50-60% in the end I think

Considering I live in a Development town in the Galilee, and considering the rate youths leave these kinds of places, I guess it's justified to be surprised by the sight of any youth, let alone a youth voting in the Labour primaries.

Karmiel?

anyway this is the lowest electorate ever. last proper primaries were 1996, and the biggest were 1981.

Worse- Ma'alot.
Also, turnout at 20%, I guess it should increase when the workday is over.

oh dear, I never met anyone from up there who spoke English (well there's one but she's a right wing nutter). Yes the local Labour branch there is very old and very Herzog.

It is boiling today and there are less polling stations, I expect a peak after 7pm

[DavidB.]

Turnout 33.3% now.

[Santander]

Modi visiting Israel right now. Thoughts?

[Hnv1]

Modi visiting Israel right now. Thoughts?

birds of a feather flock together. probably here to buy more arms.

turnout at 42%, I expect it will not exceed 60%.
The senior citizens division in Labour called on members to boycott the first round due the shameful (it really was) conduct of the different contenders. could be a little blow to the likes of Herzog and Bar Lev.

[DavidB.]

And David, I do not believe in this great social injustice (data clearly points the other way), but I guess Ben Zaken is closest to what you're looking for (in Labour)

I'm not into the toxic idpol stuff that will only divide people. When I talk about economic injustice I mean poverty, not racism. We need to live that tribal galut stuff behind us instead of framing it in 21st century SJW terms. '

After reading up on it, it seems that Gabay and Herzog are the least bad ones to me.

[Hnv1]

And David, I do not believe in this great social injustice (data clearly points the other way), but I guess Ben Zaken is closest to what you're looking for (in Labour)

I'm not into the toxic idpol stuff that will only divide people. When I talk about economic injustice I mean poverty, not racism.

He's a big supporter of increased funds going to the Jewish periphery, he's also light on the idpol (those lot actually found themselves all over the place this time around).
Maybe they talk about racism and Yemenite babies because intense poverty isn't really an issue and they know it (and Likud knows it...)

[DavidB.]

He's a big supporter of increased funds going to the Jewish periphery, he's also light on the idpol (those lot actually found themselves all over the place this time around).

Ah, I thought he was very much into that. That doesn't sound bad.

Maybe they talk about racism and Yemenite babies because intense poverty isn't really an issue and they know it (and Likud knows it...)

You may be right, but surely there is a rather large gap between the rich and the poor (though this figure is also affected by the life choices of Haredim and Arabs...) and there are many people who very much struggle to get by, are piling up debt, earn barely more than minimum wage (4630 NIS is barely a living wage in Israel, and that already implies someone gets to work full time) etc. I'm not saying Israel is like Turkey or Russia, but there are people who are poor and have a very tough time, and a party like Labour should first and foremost be there to improve living conditions for these people, as well as for the people who earn slightly more but can be helped to live a better life.

[Hnv1]

He's a big supporter of increased funds going to the Jewish periphery, he's also light on the idpol (those lot actually found themselves all over the place this time around).

Ah, I thought he was very much into that. That doesn't sound bad.

Maybe they talk about racism and Yemenite babies because intense poverty isn't really an issue and they know it (and Likud knows it...)

You may be right, but surely there is a rather large gap between the rich and the poor (though this figure is also affected by the life choices of Haredim and Arabs...) and there are many people who very much struggle to get by, are piling up debt, earn barely more than minimum wage (4630 NIS is barely a living wage in Israel, and that already implies someone gets to work full time) etc. I'm not saying Israel is like Turkey or Russia, but there are people who are poor and have a very tough time, and a party like Labour should first and foremost be there to improve living conditions for these people, as well as for the people who earn slightly more but can be helped to live a better life.

Poverty is relative of course.
But the lower income population in Israel (lowest 20% of households) is predominantly Haredi/Arabic. Higher up though...they may not have a high standard of living but unemployment is very low and they get by. Problems working class people in Europe encounter like crime/drugs/inaccessibility to education are really minor issues here. Labour/Likud have very little to offer on this matter.

On the other hand if you do want a Marxist analysis then the class getting broke the fastest in today's economy is the middle class

[America Needs R'hllor]

In the last hours, I received three or four negative messages against Margalit and one against Bar Lev. These are also the first negative sms I received about them, while the other 3 candidates, who I believe got none today, got a lot of negativity before election day. Cautious prediction- these two will outperform, especially Margalit.

[Hnv1]

A 10% increase in turnout from 2013. Low turnout with Arabs (=bad for Peretz and Herzog)

Final turnout 59% (exactly) 30998 voters. Results soon (voting still happening in Tel Aviv and Haifa)

[America Needs R'hllor]

Results supposed to come in 2 minutes. Supposed.

[Hnv1]

Peretz v Gabay in the run off. that's the word

[Hnv1]

Official results:
Peretz 10141 votes 32.72%
Gabay 8395 27.08%
Herzog 5204 16.79%
Margalit 4997 16.12%
Bar Lev 2147 6.93%
Ben Zaken 56 0.18%
Krovi 8 0.03%

turnout: 59.04% (+7% since 2013) 30998.
going to a second round next week