Israel general discussion

[Famous Mortimer]

The split between peaceniks and socialists has been ongoing on the Israeli left for years. It played out in the last 3 Meretz leadership elections and the last 3 Labor leadership elections at least.

Basically socialists, while they may want peace, want socialism more and they are willing to ally with socialist hawks to get it.

Doves, while they may want socialism, want peace more and they ally with technocratic neo-liberal doves to get it.

Each faction is sort of cool with the other but doesn't want them to dictate the nature of campaigning.

[Hnv1]

Bibi is a political genius, Liberman joining the coalition and Herzog demolished in a single stroke.

[SATW]

Bibi is a political genius, Liberman joining the coalition and Herzog demolished in a single stroke.

Yup. It's honestly insane how he's mastered the game. Good news for supporters of the coalition. Herzog is quickly becoming a candidate for a political darwin award.

[DavidB.]

Today is an amazing day. SO glad Ya'alon will be gone. And the infighting on the left is hilarious.

[Hnv1]

Begin (son of) called this a crazy decision and said Bibi cares for his political well-being more than off the state (harsh words coming from him) but bar from him and Ya'alon can't see anyone else causing a fuss in Likud ranks. On Labour's side on the other hand several MKs called for Herzog's resignation with Galon and Oda calling for his sacking as head of the opposition. As I kept stressing this recent days I just couldn't understand what he was doing, it was a lose-lose all around and it was pretty obvious he was being played. What a tool, question is how fast can the parliamentary faction force a leadership election.

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I resent you naming Labour as part of the left. I'm actually for the most right wing government forming (and always against unity governments), go on lets see what you are up to, Liberman as MoD will be a catastrophe. His relationship with the IDF will be toxic from day 1. and well...Talk about moves that will agitate the international community further. 

[DavidB.]

I resent you naming Labour as part of the left. I'm actually for the most right wing government forming (and always against unity governments), go on lets see what you are up to, Liberman as MoD will be a catastrophe. His relationship with the IDF will be toxic from day 1. and well...Talk about moves that will agitate the international community further. 

Lieberman is exactly the kind of MoD Israel needs, I just hope Bibi will not constrain him too much. He will surely face resistance from within the army, but the army is changing too, and Lieberman can help speed up this transformation, which is obviously taking place on other departments as well. Foreign countries will always whine when Israel defends itself adequately and they will only stop whining when more Jews are being killed and more Jewish power is lost, so if anything, international agitation would show that the government is on the right track.

Regarding Labour, well... even Herzog called Yachimovich "extreme left" today

[Hnv1]

I resent you naming Labour as part of the left. I'm actually for the most right wing government forming (and always against unity governments), go on lets see what you are up to, Liberman as MoD will be a catastrophe. His relationship with the IDF will be toxic from day 1. and well...Talk about moves that will agitate the international community further. 

Lieberman is exactly the kind of MoD Israel needs, I just hope Bibi will not constrain him too much. He will surely face resistance from within the army, but the army is changing too, and Lieberman can help speed up this transformation, which is obviously taking place on other departments as well. Foreign countries will always whine when Israel defends itself adequately and they will only stop whining when more Jews are being killed and more Jewish power is lost, so if anything, international agitation would show that the government is on the right track.

Regarding Labour, well... even Herzog called Yachimovich "extreme left" today

You're wise enough to be aware that your argument there was ad verecundiam.

Well I worked in the MoD back in the days and I know the corridors, they will simply go over his head on everything important, Like when Peretz was MoD and everything important when directly to the PM's military aide-de-camp. I think you should have wanted Bennet not the thug, or as we say a barking dog doesn't bite.

[danny]

Not a fan of Liberman, who is similar to Trump since before Trump was a thing. Someone who likes to do that whole tough guy shtick with very little content to back it up.

Having said that, this is still a positive development, since the government needs more MK's to pass things without some random annoyance like Hazan or Amsalem getting in the way, and I wasn't happy with Boogies recent conduct anyway.

[MalaspinaGold]

Not a fan of Liberman, who is similar to Trump since before Trump was a thing. Someone who likes to do that whole tough guy shtick with very little content to back it up.

Having said that, this is still a positive development, since the government needs more MK's to pass things without some random annoyance like Hazan or Amsalem getting in the way, and I wasn't happy with Boogies recent conduct anyway.

I for one can't really understand the latest "left-wing" infatuation with Yaalon. After all, this is the one who called for just segregated busing in the West Bank just last year. Almost as self-serving as Lieberman.

Anyway, I think Herzog's slow motion car crash/seppuku/jumping headfirst into quicksand wearing a lead vest can be explained in light of this:
http://www.timesofisrael.com/seeking-new-peace-push-blair-said-to-have-been-key-to-herzog-netanyahu-talks/
As with every other problem in the Middle East, Tony Blair is involved. Go finks yourself Tony.

Also, this seems relevant:

[Hnv1]

Orli Levi Abuksis announced in a shock move she's leaving YB right before their entry to the coalition which makes YB one of the smallest factions in the house with only 5 MKs. She said the social requirements were neglected in the coalition talks (which is good because she wanted to have a sub prime bubble here). She was always considered a good MK and a moderate within the party, I guess Lapid will try to attract her to join now.

Bibi promised to fulfil Liberman's demand for "death penalty for terrorists" which is pretty weird as it is already the law but the military courts decide not to activate it. So I guess they'll try making this a mandatory penalty for murder offence in specific Mens Rea which will result in a constitutional cluster F and a certain void. 

[DavidB.]

Bibi promised to fulfil Liberman's demand for "death penalty for terrorists" which is pretty weird as it is already the law but the military courts decide not to activate it. So I guess they'll try making this a mandatory penalty for murder offence in specific Mens Rea which will result in a constitutional cluster F and a certain void.  

Apparently, this is not even happening. The only thing that seems to change (if I understand it correctly, but I'm not 100% sure about it) is that two out of three judges agreeing with using the death penalty will now be sufficient to execute it (and to execute them...), instead of having the support of all three judges, as is now the case. Won't change a thing in reality, because the death penalty never gets recommended anyway. Nothing for any right-winger to be happy about, unfortunately. The Israeli right is so good at making symbolic things look big while changing nothing at all. This is exactly why people come to hate politics, and why politicians have to pull off more and more extreme tricks to get people to the ballot box (see: Netanyahu and his antics).

[SATW]

Orli Levi Abuksis announced in a shock move she's leaving YB right before their entry to the coalition which makes YB one of the smallest factions in the house with only 5 MKs. She said the social requirements were neglected in the coalition talks (which is good because she wanted to have a sub prime bubble here). She was always considered a good MK and a moderate within the party, I guess Lapid will try to attract her to join now.

Bibi promised to fulfil Liberman's demand for "death penalty for terrorists" which is pretty weird as it is already the law but the military courts decide not to activate it. So I guess they'll try making this a mandatory penalty for murder offence in specific Mens Rea which will result in a constitutional cluster F and a certain void. 

Orly Levy, like her father, has a messiah complex, imo.

[Famous Mortimer]

Just last election, she was mulling over an offer to join Likud outright.

[ag]

Ideologically coherent Israeli government. Hard to object to that, as long as I do not much care for Israel. I, actually, much prefer this to Labor getting into this mess. Herzog should be kicked out.

[SATW]

Just last election, she was mulling over an offer to join Likud outright.

Yup. Whatever gives her more leverage is what she will do. Just like David Levy.

[MalaspinaGold]

Moshe Gafni (UTJ MK, belonging to the non-Hasidic faction of the party -- Degel HaTorah) stated in a haredi magazine that he wants JH out of the coalition and ZU in. He also took a jab at party leader Yaakov Litzman (who leads the Hasidic faction of the party --  Agudat Yisrael), stating that Litzman "is friends with people who are destroying the Torah world and with the head of a party that isn't working in the interest of the Haredi community" (=Bennett).

You gotta love Israeli politics.

On another note, ZU voters will be thrilled by the perspective of Herzog propping up a Bibi-Bennett government just when Bibi needs it the most. Especially considering the fact that many of them voted for them because of their only campaign issue, namely "PLS NO BIBI ANYMORE".

Gotta wonder what Gafni's thinking now.

[Hnv1]

Well Ya'alon just resigned, and left Likud claiming he's going to contest for 'national leadership next' (Kachlon-saar-Ya'alon?)
Yehuda Glick number 33 on Likud's ballot will be made MK

[SATW]

Bye, Bogie. Maybe you'll learn how to be a non-crappy politician in the future. All respect to you on your IDF service and service as Def. Min, but clearly, you needed to go.

[Hnv1]

Liberman, Bennett, and Kachlon all showing some muscles so the new coalition is delayed. Nothing big will be sorted soon.

MK Micky Zohar (Likud) plans on resigning. Advocate Osnat Hilla Mark wil be sworn in instead. Frankly never even heard her name

[SATW]

Liberman, Bennett, and Kachlon all showing some muscles so the new coalition is delayed. Nothing big will be sorted soon.

MK Micky Zohar (Likud) plans on resigning. Advocate Osnat Hilla Mark wil be sworn in instead. Frankly never even heard her name

Related to Ya'alon's resignation? Or something else?

[DavidB.]

MK Micky Zohar (Likud) plans on resigning. Advocate Osnat Hilla Mark wil be sworn in instead. Frankly never even heard her name

Neither did Bibi, probably.

[Famous Mortimer]

Liberman, Bennett, and Kachlon all showing some muscles so the new coalition is delayed. Nothing big will be sorted soon.

MK Micky Zohar (Likud) plans on resigning. Advocate Osnat Hilla Mark wil be sworn in instead. Frankly never even heard her name

Related to Ya'alon's resignation? Or something else?

"Personal reasons" although he's no doubt upset by the switch from Ya'alon to Lieberman, which is a shift to the left on both the Palestinian issue and religious/secular issues, both of which Zohar was firmly to the right of Netanyahu on.

[SATW]

Liberman, Bennett, and Kachlon all showing some muscles so the new coalition is delayed. Nothing big will be sorted soon.

MK Micky Zohar (Likud) plans on resigning. Advocate Osnat Hilla Mark wil be sworn in instead. Frankly never even heard her name

Related to Ya'alon's resignation? Or something else?

"Personal reasons" although he's no doubt upset by the switch from Ya'alon to Lieberman, which is a shift to the left on both the Palestinian issue and religious/secular issues, both of which Zohar was firmly to the right of Netanyahu on.

Ah ok. Makes sense.  Sad to see him go, but life goes on.

[MalaspinaGold]

Liberman, Bennett, and Kachlon all showing some muscles so the new coalition is delayed. Nothing big will be sorted soon.

MK Micky Zohar (Likud) plans on resigning. Advocate Osnat Hilla Mark wil be sworn in instead. Frankly never even heard her name

Related to Ya'alon's resignation? Or something else?

"Personal reasons" although he's no doubt upset by the switch from Ya'alon to Lieberman, which is a shift to the left on both the Palestinian issue and religious/secular issues, both of which Zohar was firmly to the right of Netanyahu on.

Except Lieberman's not actually a shift to the "left" on the Palestinian issue, certainly not where the Defense Ministry is concerned.

[Hnv1]

Liberman, Bennett, and Kachlon all showing some muscles so the new coalition is delayed. Nothing big will be sorted soon.

MK Micky Zohar (Likud) plans on resigning. Advocate Osnat Hilla Mark wil be sworn in instead. Frankly never even heard her name

Related to Ya'alon's resignation? Or something else?

"Personal reasons" although he's no doubt upset by the switch from Ya'alon to Lieberman, which is a shift to the left on both the Palestinian issue and religious/secular issues, both of which Zohar was firmly to the right of Netanyahu on.

My guess is something completely personal and unrelated. Don't think he gave a toss about Ya'alon and Liberman agreed to all religious Haredi demands anyhow. Zohar is a quirky fellow from "Kabbalah to the people" a weird new movement\sect\cult that got thousands to register within Likud