Wikileaks: Obama attempted to APOLOGIZE for US nuking of Japan during WWII

[patrick1]

Interesting story Anvi.  My Grandfather was in the 5th Marine Division and was also earmarked for Operation Downfall.  (He was later part of the occupation force in Sasebo). He had been on Iwo Jima and saw some unspeakable things. He was also a serious Catholic and recoiled at the dehumanization of combat. My Grandmother was also a Marine and abhorred war her whole life.  However, they both felt the nuclear bombing was necessary to end the war.

Hindsight is 20/20 and there is no way to say with certainty what would have occurred had we not dropped the bomb.  The conventional arms of the time were inaccurate and there could likely have been devastating civilian casualties were a ground assault required. Like you I'm glad the debate can take place at all.

[Јas]

jm, your interpretation of the wikileaks cable does not inspire confidence in your ability to interpret other documents.

[© tweed]

hat tip to anvi for the anecdote.



it's quite clear that, and this appears to have not yet been raised, that the US dropped the a-bomb for the purpose of keeping Stalin out of the post-War reconstruction of Japan.  a ground invasion would have meant Soviet troops, and, alas..

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Fletch:  You're Marvin Stanwyk?

Marvin: Yeah.

Fletch:  Hi there.  Harry S. Truman, Casewell Insurance underwriters.

Marvin: Harry S. Truman?

Fletch:  My parents were fans of the former president.

Marvin: Isn't that nice. He was a good man.

Fletch:  He sure was.

Marvin: He showed the Japs a thing or two.

Fletch:  Dropped the big one, huh?

Marvin: He dropped two big ones on them.

   

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Interesting story Anvi.  My Grandfather was in the 5th Marine Division and was also earmarked for Operation Downfall.  (He was later part of the occupation force in Sasebo). He had been on Iwo Jima and saw some unspeakable things. He was also a serious Catholic and recoiled at the dehumanization of combat. My Grandmother was also a Marine and abhorred war her whole life.  However, they both felt the nuclear bombing was necessary to end the war.

i didnt know they allowed women in the Marines during WWII

[Link]

He was also a serious Catholic and recoiled at the dehumanization of combat. My Grandmother was also a Marine and abhorred war her whole life.

i didnt know they allowed women in the Marines during WWII

Then I am going to assume you don't know the story of one of our greatest war heroes John Basilone.  Do they not teach this stuff in school anymore?

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Do they not teach this stuff in school anymore?

couldnt tell ya, I wasnt exactly paying close attention

[Link]

He was also a serious Catholic and recoiled at the dehumanization of combat. My Grandmother was also a Marine and abhorred war her whole life.

i didnt know they allowed women in the Marines during WWII

Then I am going to assume you don't know the story of one of our greatest war heroes John Basilone.  Do they not teach this stuff in school anymore?

couldnt tell ya, I wasnt exactly paying close attention

Well that is something we both can agree on.

[I Am Feeblepizza.]

This whole thing is really very unsurprising. After all, how many other countries has the man apologized to?

[Link]

This whole thing is really very unsurprising. After all, how many other countries has the man apologized to?

So the article doesn't even mention Obama wanted to do this. Only that something like that would be out of the question, regardless of public expectations. You creamed your pant too quick Jmf. What does your wife think of this problem you have?

Welcome to the party ALF.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

This whole thing is really very unsurprising. After all, how many other countries has the man apologized to?

he should at least apologize to the French for us saving their sorry arses in WWII...I mean, if we're going to start apologizing, why not have some fun with it.

[Insula Dei]

hat tip to anvi for the anecdote.



it's quite clear that, and this appears to have not yet been raised, that the US dropped the a-bomb for the purpose of keeping Stalin out of the post-War reconstruction of Japan.  a ground invasion would have meant Soviet troops, and, alas..

The main reason for dropping the bomb on Japan, of course, was that it didn't look like they'd have another opportunityany time soon to show Stalin what exactly it was the US had cooked up in the desert. Stalin was famously unimpressed by Truman's revelation of US nuclear potential at Potsdam, and it's only after Hiroshima that the Soviets geared up their own nuclear research and that they started to take the new power of the US seriously.

Also, Anvi's father must have been quite some man.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

This whole thing is really very unsurprising. After all, how many other countries has the man apologized to?

So the article doesn't even mention Obama wanted to do this. Only that something like that would be out of the question, regardless of public expectations. You creamed your pant too quick Jmf. What does your wife think of this problem you have?

Welcome to the party ALF.

yo, I switched articles after starting the thread with another...the first one was a bit too inflamatory so I switched to one from NPR...mainly because I'm a nice guy

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

so, let me get this straight....you all are interpreting the wire to mean that the japanese, out of the clear blue sky, were saying, "Hey, come visit the place where you nuked us, but dont think about apologizing for doing the deed, your apology is a non-starter"?!

or, is it more likely Obama floated the idea of an apology, but Japan replied, "Dude, are you for flippin'  real?  We have enough trouble with China and NKorea and the rest of the hood, we don't need you apologizing for kicking our arse 65 years ago."

come on now...deep down you know I'm probably right on this one...and from my hood experience, this makes perfect sense

[I Am Feeblepizza.]

So apparently I creamed my pants too quickly as well.

[angus]

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/10/12/141276162/wikileaks-japan-rebuffed-idea-of-u-s-apology-for-hiroshima

I surely hope this gets made public.

Wow, I hadn't heard this.  I do remember the president's visit to Japan well.  And I remember my wife saying she hopes he does not visit Hiroshima.  But your link does not say that Obama tried to apologize.  It just says the a Japanese minister advised against a visit to Hiroshima.

[angus]

Okay, now I've read over the thread a little bit.  My comments were unnecessary since everyone else seems to have noticed it as well.

or, is it more likely Obama floated the idea of an apology, but Japan replied, "Dude, are you for flippin'  real?  We have enough trouble with China and NKorea and the rest of the hood, we don't need you apologizing for kicking our arse 65 years ago."

Possibly.  And I agree that it would have been a bad idea for him to do so.  First, he had nothing to do with it.  (He hadn't even been born yet.)  Second, it would infuriate the Chinese.  Third, Japan seems to play ball pretty well with us already.  (They even started to put a few troops in Afghanistan over large protests in Tokyo, but that got nixed.)  Fourth, war is war.  You don't expect Obama to apologize to Georgia for Sherman's rape and pillage.  You don't expect Obama to apologize to the people of Dresden for incinerating them in WWII.  You don't expect Obama to apologize to Mexico for the US Army goading them into a war, then annexing half their territory to the USA, conveniently just in time for the California Gold Rush.  It's ancient history.  Leave it alone.  Fifth, the Axis powers commited some of the most brutal, atrocious acts in the history of mankind.  Chinese women and children were raped, old people were forced into labor, and ancient temples were razed.  The Japanese don't even teach that in the history books.  It's like then Japanese incursions from 1931 to 1945 just didn't happen.  Oh, we were just minding our own business, and one day the Americans and Russians and Chinese started bombing us.  I'm certain that their leaders know better, but the average grade school student doesn't.  If anyone owes anyone an apology, it is the government of Japan.  To its own people.  

Still, your thread title is misleading boss.  Be honest.  It's muckraking, and you have no evidence, only conjecture, that Obama wanted to apologize for nuking them.  

[opebo]

seriously, Nathan, if you're not aware that Japan murdered MILLIONS of civilians during the war, you really don't deserve to be in this thread.   So do yourself a favor and GET LOST.

Yes, the Japanese Empire was quite prone to 'murdering civilians', but so has the United States been throughout its history and continues to be.  There is no 'right' or 'wrong' side here - just two powers slugging it out.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Still, your thread title is misleading boss.  Be honest.  It's muckraking, and you have no evidence, only conjecture, that Obama wanted to apologize for nuking them.  

well, unless you think Japan just brought the subject up out of the blue (which would be highly presumptuous), what other conclusion is there?

[angus]

Still, your thread title is misleading boss.  Be honest.  It's muckraking, and you have no evidence, only conjecture, that Obama wanted to apologize for nuking them.  

well, unless you think Japan just brought the subject up out of the blue (which would be highly presumptuous), what other conclusion is there?

Well, I started googling, and found a Fox News report that the White House released a press statement today that said Obama never had any intention of doing this.

How well do you know Mitoji Yabunaka?  Who can say why he sent such a cable?  Maybe somebody in the White House simply floated the idea of a visit.  You know, for old time's sake.  And Yabunaka-san just wrote back to say not to do it, adding on his own that an apology wouldn't be in order at this time.  It's quite possible.  We're a strange people in that regard.  Americans are always "Demanding an apology!" or, worse, giving one.  I imagine our nation's real First Black President never owned a slave in his life, but that didn't stop Bubba from apologizing for slavery.  It's a quirk of our culture, somehow, that we have become apologists for everything, and probably foreigners just think of as one of our weird ways.  So when the Obama cabinet member calls up Yabunaka-san and inquires about the possibility of a visit, Yabunaka=san assumes that Obama-san is planning to come to say Me so sorry for bomb.  And Yabunaka-san writes Obama-san and says, "Don't do.  We have enough probrem with China."  Or maybe Hillary just threw it out there and it got around to Yabunaka-san.  I don't know. 

But neither do you. 

[patrick1]

Interesting story Anvi.  My Grandfather was in the 5th Marine Division and was also earmarked for Operation Downfall.  (He was later part of the occupation force in Sasebo). He had been on Iwo Jima and saw some unspeakable things. He was also a serious Catholic and recoiled at the dehumanization of combat. My Grandmother was also a Marine and abhorred war her whole life.  However, they both felt the nuclear bombing was necessary to end the war.

i didnt know they allowed women in the Marines during WWII

Yeah, she had basic training at Camp Lejune, NC and then served at the Naval Annex.  "Free a marine to fight" was the motto.  She worked in the munitions plant before being considered old enough to join.  I believe over 20,000 women served in the USMC during WWII and several hundred even had served during WWI.

[anvi]

Just wanted to quickly thank those of you who had compliments for my father.  He was indeed an amazing man.  It's hard to believe he died more than twenty one years ago now, but I was really lucky to have him as my dad.  Like I said above, his view about the end of the War in the Pacific was a decidedly minority one among veterans as far as I've ever been able to tell.  But the strength and courage of his moral convictions, agree or disagree with the substance of his beliefs, were always parts of his character I greatly admired.  Telling that story helps me remember him, so thanks again to those of you who read it for indulging me.

[Beet]

How did the US military manage to generate a 14 meter tsunami? I want that technology.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I think I would have liked to have met your dad, anvi.

[J. J.]

It's what Jesus would've done.

Resurrected.  The rest of us don't have that option.

The alternative to the dropping of the A-bomb was an invasion of Japan, which would have cost over 1,000,000 American lives and possibly twice the number of Japanese.  When does it become genocide?