Texas School Punishes Boy for Opposing Homosexuality

[Reaganfan]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/09/22/texas-school-punishes-boy-for-opposing-homosexuality/

Dakota was in a German class at the high school when the conversation shifted to religion and homosexuality in Germany. At some point during the conversation, he turned to a friend and said that he was a Christian and “being a homosexual is wrong.”

“It wasn’t directed to anyone except my friend who was sitting behind me,” Dakota told Fox. “I guess [the teacher] heard me. He started yelling. He told me he was going to write me an infraction and send me to the office.”

Dakota was sentenced to one day in-school suspension – and two days of full suspension. His mother was flabbergasted, noting that her son had a spotless record, was an honor student, volunteered at his church and played on the school football team.

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Once again, our so-called "educators" only show courage and guts when attacking children when they speak out their mind on an issue, yet they seem to always be in favor of free speech. Another reason why children are lacking in education today, our teachers are terrible. As I've stated before, the reason I continue to grow more conservative with each passing year is because of things like this. Another example of "progressives" going too far.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

when the state recognizes homosexuality, the very next thing to happen is that it is taught in the school and kids are scolded for their religious views....the whole push for recognition and hate crime legislation is to silence Christians.

Just watch, it wont be long before churches will be sued and lose their charitable status for preaching that homosexuality is a sin.

[TJ in Oregon]

I was wondering when we'd get a story like this because with the increasing social acceptance of homosexuality people lose the ability to distinguish between personal morality and the politics of the situation (if we ever were able to do so in the first place). Once something is legal, you become a 'bigot' for personally opposing it in some circles and this appears to be one of them.

The teacher may be correct in saying this isn't a political battle social conservatives are going to win, but as long as we have the freedom of religion and speech we ought to be able to personally dissent from that. After all, the boy was quoted as saying homosexuality is sinful, not that it should be banned or that employment rights, etc. should not be protected on that basis. This may end up being what the discussion of homosexuality in is like in our political world in 20 years, more or less like porn or condoms are now.

Still, I wish we were able to hear the other side of the story because I question if the boy said something else we aren't hearing about. It's not good for someone that young to become a social "victim".

[John Dibble]

Of course the headline is dead wrong and you are reading selectively.

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After a meeting with Pope and her attorney, the school rescinded the two-day suspension so Dakota would be allowed to play in an upcoming football game.

“They’ve righted all the wrongs,” said Matt Krause, an attorney with the Liberty Counsel. “This should have no lasting effect on his academic or personal record going forward.”

Pope contacted the Liberty Counsel immediately after her son was punished.

“I told the school that he should never have been suspended for exercising his Constitutional rights,” Krause told Fox News Radio. “The principal is sincere in trying to do the right thing and hopefully they will tell the teacher, ‘Do not do that anymore.’ He won’t be pushing his agenda.”
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In other words this was primarily due to one teacher, not the school itself, and the punishment was rescinded accordingly since he didn't do anything against the rules.

[Reaganfan]

Of course the headline is dead wrong and you are reading selectively.

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After a meeting with Pope and her attorney, the school rescinded the two-day suspension so Dakota would be allowed to play in an upcoming football game.

“They’ve righted all the wrongs,” said Matt Krause, an attorney with the Liberty Counsel. “This should have no lasting effect on his academic or personal record going forward.”

Pope contacted the Liberty Counsel immediately after her son was punished.

“I told the school that he should never have been suspended for exercising his Constitutional rights,” Krause told Fox News Radio. “The principal is sincere in trying to do the right thing and hopefully they will tell the teacher, ‘Do not do that anymore.’ He won’t be pushing his agenda.”
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In other words this was primarily due to one teacher, not the school itself, and the punishment was rescinded accordingly since he didn't do anything against the rules.

I never said it was.

[Lief 🗽]

I see nothing wrong with this. School is not the place for children to be spouting hate speech.

[Reaganfan]

I see nothing wrong with this. School is not the place for children to be spouting hate speech.

Ah ah ah....careful there. He never said anything about hate. Never used foul language, either.

I can't stand rap music, hand signs, and people who talk ghetto-style.

Is that hating against African Americans? Not at all. But you'd be fast to want to say that. This is an example of how touchy you progressives get. Simmer down.

[greenforest32]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/09/22/texas-school-punishes-boy-for-opposing-homosexuality/
 At some point during the conversation, he turned to a friend and said that he was a Christian and “being a homosexual is wrong.”

What's with these fundies? What's wrong about a girl being attracted to a girl or a guy being attracted to a guy? Who gives a sh**t?

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

What's with these fundies? What's wrong about a girl being attracted to a girl or a guy being attracted to a guy? Who gives a sh**t?

better yet, what's wrong with a Christian believing in the bible?  why should he be punished for having Christian religious views?

[bullmoose88]

After a meeting with Pope and her attorney, the school rescinded the two-day suspension so Dakota would be allowed to play in an upcoming football game.

“They’ve righted all the wrongs,” said Matt Krause, an attorney with the Liberty Counsel. “This should have no lasting effect on his academic or personal record going forward.”

Maybe its just me, but the fact this is Texas makes me think that the only thing that got the kid off the hook wasn't a review of the case...rather that they probably needed the kid on the football team.

Not crazy about what the kid said, but in this particular case on these particular facts I can't really see why he got in trouble.  Perhaps some chiding from the teacher or social disdain, but any official disciplinary action...nuts.

[bullmoose88]

What's with these fundies? What's wrong about a girl being attracted to a girl or a guy being attracted to a guy? Who gives a sh**t?

better yet, what's wrong with a Christian believing in the bible?  why should he be punished for having Christian religious views?

The views here are so innocuous/benign to you.  They aren't so innocent to everyone.  The question is, at what point (if there is one) does the espouser's free speech right have to yield to other rights, particularly in a school setting?  If at all? 

[DrScholl]

Sounds like there is something more to it that is not be mentioned. He claims the teacher started yelling, but that reaction seems kind of over the top for the comment he made. He'd have to say something more than that to get into trouble I would think. There is definitely more to this.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

What's with these fundies? What's wrong about a girl being attracted to a girl or a guy being attracted to a guy? Who gives a sh**t?

better yet, what's wrong with a Christian believing in the bible?  why should he be punished for having Christian religious views?

The views here are so innocuous/benign to you.  They aren't so innocent to everyone.  The question is, at what point (if there is one) does the espouser's free speech right have to yield to other rights, particularly in a school setting?  If at all? 

then the teacher should NOT have brought up the subject if she didnt want it discussed....and whose rights was the kid violating by simply expressing his opinioin than an action is sin?!...do Americans have the right not to hear other opinoins even if they thrust themselves into a debate?

you've fallen off the turnip truck, BM

[Torie]

What's with these fundies? What's wrong about a girl being attracted to a girl or a guy being attracted to a guy? Who gives a sh**t?

better yet, what's wrong with a Christian believing in the bible?  why should he be punished for having Christian religious views?

The views here are so innocuous/benign to you.  They aren't so innocent to everyone.  The question is, at what point (if there is one) does the espouser's free speech right have to yield to other rights, particularly in a school setting?  If at all?  

There is an issue about free speech that is disruptive in secondary school needed some curbing with which I have some sympathy - up to a point. But this was not disruptive; the kid was just stating an opinion. And since there would be no punishment if the guy had said being a homosexual "is right," while there apparently was for saying "it is wrong," that suggests to me selective free speech, and that to me is unacceptable.

Schools are just too uptight these days (with way too much PC to boot), except for the one thing that matters - the quality of the education, and in particular the quality of the teachers. On that one, the schools tend not to be "uptight" at all. They just have their priorities wrong - way wrong.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

mark my words:  it won't be long before it will unlawful to publically express the view that homosexuality is a sin

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

Political Correctness is bad.

It's stange that a Texas school would do this. Good thing this didn't happen in New England, he'd be expelled!

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Political Correctness is bad.

It's stange that a Texas school would do this. Good thing this didn't happen in New England, he'd be expelled!

being removed from school is just a first step...next they will go after churches due to their tax status...after that, it will become unlawful to express such views in public without either being sued or outright arrested

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

Can people express racist views in public without being sued?

[RI]

Jmfcst, I don't recall a place in the Bible where it says that "being a homosexual is wrong". Obviously it says having gay sex is wrong, but that's not what the student in this case said.

[Torie]

Can people express racist views in public without being sued?

Secondary school is a restricted free speech zone. SCOTUS has so ruled. But it does not like selective free speech restrictions - at all. They must be neutral. Outside of this particular island of restriction, you are back to the yelling fire in a theater standard basically. Most anything goes.

[bullmoose88]

What's with these fundies? What's wrong about a girl being attracted to a girl or a guy being attracted to a guy? Who gives a sh**t?

better yet, what's wrong with a Christian believing in the bible?  why should he be punished for having Christian religious views?

The views here are so innocuous/benign to you.  They aren't so innocent to everyone.  The question is, at what point (if there is one) does the espouser's free speech right have to yield to other rights, particularly in a school setting?  If at all?  

There is an issue about free speech that is disruptive in secondary school needed some curbing with which I have some sympathy - up to a point. But this was not disruptive; the kid was just stating an opinion. And since there would be no punishment if the guy had said being a homosexual "is right," while there apparently was for saying "it is wrong," that suggests to me selective free speech, and that to me is unacceptable.

Schools are just too uptight these days (with way too much PC to boot), except for the one thing that matters - the quality of the education, and in particular the quality of the teachers. On that one, the schools tend not to be "uptight" at all. They just have their priorities wrong - way wrong.

(Both to Torie and Jmf)

And I dont think I've disagreed with that in this thread.  I get why you responded that way to quoted post, but my previous post did show I was perplexed at why (based on the facts presented) that the kid got official disciplinary action

And I think this ties in nicely with the comment that I've fallen off the turnip truck.  Again I thought I stated that I didn't see why the kid got in trouble and then in the next post went on to probe the real question...at what point should, if at all, he have gotten in trouble.  What behavior (regarding the topic at hand) would be actionable....

goodness.

[Torie]

I just read your one post Bullmoose. Sorry.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

BM,

to even consider the rights of the "offended" during open discussion of a topic is a bit....extreme.  If a person doesn't want to hear an opposing view, then simply don't engage in discussing the subject, for everyone certainly has the right to not debate.

if would be like jmfcst suing Dibble for Dibble's expressed views of Christianity, when I am the one who chose to bring it up.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Can people express racist views in public without being sued?

anyone has the right to be ignorant during an open debate as long as they remain on subject...just like people have the right to be ignorant enough to equate racism with homosexuality

[bullmoose88]

BM,

to even consider the rights of the "offended" during open discussion of a topic is a bit....extreme.  If a person doesn't want to hear an opposing view, then simply don't engage in discussing the subject, for everyone certainly has the right to not debate.

if would be like jmfcst suing Dibble for Dibble's expressed views of Christianity, when I am the one who chose to bring it up.

Again, not necessarily what I was getting at.  Generally the right to be not offended isn't recognized (nor should it be) by law or most people for that matter.  But you are in a school setting and the administration has a general duty to protect the students...order...safety etc.  Intimidation is also one of those things that could be taken by some as mere offense, yet is not a protected form of speech in a lot of instances.

Again, this particular instance, as reported, generated a reaction from a teacher that was inappropriate.  Merely saying "homosexuality is wrong" really doesn't present a safety threat to the student body or any other actionable cause for the school.  I've basically said that a few times now.

I've been asking, for the last several posts...what could the kid have done with this particular subject matter that disciplinary action would have been appropriate?  Merely saying "f****try" instead of homosexuality?  Something more vulgar and descriptive?  (Either in English or in German).  Some form of intimidation with it (maybe a wink or a nudge to beat up a/the homo(s))...either as a physical threat or something slightly less but not really any better (teasing a kid for a day/week/month/academic year)?

You and I are agreed, this kid shouldn't have been punished by the school for saying "homosexuality is wrong" but where will you draw the line?