What if Abbas succeeds and UN recognizes Palestine within pre1967 borders? (user search)
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
April 27, 2024, 10:08:46 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  International General Discussion (Moderators: afleitch, Hash)
  What if Abbas succeeds and UN recognizes Palestine within pre1967 borders? (search mode)
Pages: [1]
Author Topic: What if Abbas succeeds and UN recognizes Palestine within pre1967 borders?  (Read 11742 times)
minionofmidas
Lewis Trondheim
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,206
India


« on: September 16, 2011, 11:28:48 AM »

You don't seem to know the first thing about the UN.
Logged
minionofmidas
Lewis Trondheim
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,206
India


« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2011, 12:48:06 PM »

You don't seem to know the first thing about the UN.

how so?  you think even a US veto is going to stop the recognition of Palestine?  and would the US even veto such a resolution?
Known and confirmed fact, and known and confirmed fact.

Oh wait. That's for membership. Technically you asked "recognition of a Palestinian state" - that is then not admitted as a member even though it has a nonvoting delegation at the UN, a status it would share with the Vatican. Yeah, it's kind of complex.
That's a meaningless compromise but one that America may very well have to swallow (and is working hard to prevent as we speak), as that would not be subject to a veto.
Logged
minionofmidas
Lewis Trondheim
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,206
India


« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2011, 04:45:52 AM »

@Lewis

Abbas just went on national TV today in the West Bank and declared he is going to ask for UN membership.

And who exactly loses if the US vetoes it?  Certainly not Abbas.  

What Abbas is doing is perfectly logical from his POV, especially with Jordan on the edge of a cliff.
Yes (except strike "if" and replace with "when"). Though not in the sense you seem to take.
Abbas is fighting to regain some sort of legitimacy among Palestinians.

Well, I guess it is pretty clear that two things ARE going to happen. US vetoes the Security Council resolution, blocking Palestinian admission into the organization, and the General Assembly, with the opposing votes of US, Israel and Micronesia (and very few others, if any), votes to make Palestine an observer state (thus, recognizing it as a state). The only way to prevent this would be if Israel suddenly and entirely unexpectedly makes some major material concessions (e.g., promising to evacuate a few majorish settlements within months). But the latter is not going to happen.

Of course, Israel will use the General Assembly action as a pretext for not negotiating, but, as Israel hasn't been negotiating and hasn't had any plans to negotiate since the current government has been in office, this would only mean no material change. It would be more interesting, if the GA resolution somehow linked international recognition of Israel w/ the international recognition of Palestine, but that is, probably, too much for the Europeans.
"Probably"? Voting for UN Membership for Palestine at this point is "too much" for Germany and most other Western European governments. Recognition as a non-member "state" might not be, but presumably only on condition that the membership vote be pulled.
It's not even clear that the US will have to use that veto. Passing the general assembly requires a two-thirds vote. That's about ~15-20 votes more than are committed to it - not much room for error for US politics of putting pressure on poor countries, and I assume it will pass, but it's not certain.
Logged
minionofmidas
Lewis Trondheim
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,206
India


« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2011, 09:48:57 AM »

Right, yeah. A veto would come before a GA vote. (?)
Logged
minionofmidas
Lewis Trondheim
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,206
India


« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2011, 08:38:37 AM »

since when is it illegal to gain land by war?  isn't that how most land was gained in the past?

The gaining of land by conquest has been illegal in international law for many decades now.
Even if not, unequal rights status for the population of the conquered territory for an extended period always has been.
Logged
Pages: [1]  
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.027 seconds with 12 queries.