time to talk Turkey again (note to BushOK, the topic aint Thanksgiving)
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  time to talk Turkey again (note to BushOK, the topic aint Thanksgiving)
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Author Topic: time to talk Turkey again (note to BushOK, the topic aint Thanksgiving)  (Read 3095 times)
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jmfcst
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« on: September 15, 2011, 01:42:54 PM »

4)  Israel and Turkey will be at war one day

Turkey is a NATO member. A crucial NATO member, BTW. One of THE most crucial US allies. Are you suggesting US and Israel are going to fight? And, BTW, whose side would you be on in such a war?

Smell the coffee - Turkey is no longer an ally of the U.S.  And I will ALWAYS be on the side of Israel as long it is defending its existence.

Unless some divinity changes that country's location on my map, we're going to be their ally.......period. 

topic needs a bumping:


Erdoğan: 'Warships could be in e. Mediterranean at any moment'

http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=238063

with the loss of NY-09 (Jewish vote turning against Obama) and the UN about to back a Palestinian state (more Jews turn against Obama), can Obama afford not to back Israel in any flare up with Turkey?
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Sbane
sbane
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« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2011, 02:17:12 PM »

Well, it looks like both sides are playing to their base. If you would read the article you posted, JMF, you would notice that he has been under attack lately for saying Egypt should be a secular democracy. He needs to shore up his base. Netanyahu also doesn't seem like the most stable person out there. I wonder what sort of idiocy he has done to ruin their relationship. Let's not forget how he acted towards Obama, the President of their biggest ally (and basically the only reason they live such a cozy life). They should really re-evaluate their foreign policy a bit.
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jmfcst
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« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2011, 03:08:41 PM »

Well, it looks like both sides are playing to their base. If you would read the article you posted, JMF, you would notice that he has been under attack lately for saying Egypt should be a secular democracy. He needs to shore up his base...

you think Erdoğan has his warships blowing smoke simply to shore up his base?  Obviously, almost everything involves postering, but I think the situation is a tad more serious than that, as it has a lot to do with the oil blocks in the eastern Mediterranean.

Plus, Erdoğan has painted himself into a corner over the Gaza blockade - if he backs down now he will endanger his own hold on power and he could potentially become a non-Arab victim of the Arab Spring, which he has been attempting to get out in front of.

---

But the question of this thread really has to do with the rock and the hard place Obama is in - if the UN goes ahead with Palestinian statehood, NY-09 is going to look like an Obama victory in comparison...so with very real prospects of Obama losing the Jewish vote in 2012, what does Obama do in the event of a Turkish-Jewish skirmish, because you know the GOP candidates (except for maybe Paul) are going to come out in full support of Israel.
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sbane
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« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2011, 03:25:32 PM »

I don't give a crap about 2012. Obama should do the right thing (and good for Paul for saying the right thing).
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« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2011, 11:06:36 PM »

Too lazy to debunk the crap about the Jewish vote in NY-09, so I'll just refer to Al's posting history.
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The Mikado
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« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2011, 11:15:15 PM »

I prefer dark meat with gravy, with cranberries and stuffing on the side.
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dead0man
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« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2011, 11:29:52 PM »

Actually, there is a rumor out there that Erdogan/Turkish military is doing this to distract people from his/their dickishness around Cyprus.  The Greeks and the Israelis have been growing closer while Turkey and Egypt have been doing the same.
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jmfcst
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« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2011, 08:45:52 AM »

Actually, there is a rumor out there that Erdogan/Turkish military is doing this to distract people from his/their dickishness around Cyprus.  The Greeks and the Israelis have been growing closer while Turkey and Egypt have been doing the same.

and there are rumors Israel and Greece (a NATO member) have invoked a security act sending Israeli fighters to bases in Greece in case Turkey (a NATO member) gets too froggish.
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dead0man
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« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2011, 09:48:05 AM »

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Sbane
sbane
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« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2011, 10:13:21 AM »

Dumbass hardliners....
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dead0man
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« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2011, 11:11:02 AM »

Has anybody been keeping tabs on who Turkey has "warned" in the last 6 months to a year?  Israel, Greece, Cyprus, Iran, Syria, the US, the EU...I'm sure I'm forgetting somebody.
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jmfcst
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« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2011, 10:12:17 AM »

http://www.silobreaker.com/erdogan-planes-and-torpedo-boats-over-gas-fields-5_2264862548694138928

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bullmoose88
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« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2011, 11:23:39 AM »

Actually, there is a rumor out there that Erdogan/Turkish military is doing this to distract people from his/their dickishness around Cyprus.  The Greeks and the Israelis have been growing closer while Turkey and Egypt have been doing the same.

and there are rumors Israel and Greece (a NATO member) have invoked a security act sending Israeli fighters to bases in Greece in case Turkey (a NATO member) gets too froggish.

How much did the Israelis pay (bailout) Greece for that?
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jmfcst
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« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2011, 11:27:51 AM »

and there are rumors Israel and Greece (a NATO member) have invoked a security act sending Israeli fighters to bases in Greece in case Turkey (a NATO member) gets too froggish.
How much did the Israelis pay (bailout) Greece for that?

Considering Greece and Turkey have fought four major wars against each other, I'm sure Greece welcomed the Israeli aces.
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bullmoose88
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« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2011, 11:32:05 AM »

and there are rumors Israel and Greece (a NATO member) have invoked a security act sending Israeli fighters to bases in Greece in case Turkey (a NATO member) gets too froggish.
How much did the Israelis pay (bailout) Greece for that?

Considering Greece and Turkey have fought four major wars against each other, I'm sure Greece welcomed the Israeli aces.

Yes.  I don't doubt they welcomed the IDF planes and pilots.  I also suspect they welcomed the currency too. 
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jmfcst
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« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2011, 11:54:29 AM »
« Edited: September 21, 2011, 12:04:23 PM by jmfcst »

Considering Greece and Turkey have fought four major wars against each other, I'm sure Greece welcomed the Israeli aces.

Yes.  I don't doubt they welcomed the IDF planes and pilots.  I also suspect they welcomed the currency too.  


I highly doubt there was a payoff involved.  the Greeks, with all their default trouble, are probably looking to get into a scrap with Turkey...and when it comes to getting into a scrap, Isreal is a pretty good ally to have....and for Israel, Greece being a member of NATO would quiet any complaints from NATO about fighting Turkey, who is also a member of NATO.

SO, we could see the ending of the Euro and the breakup of the EU, the breakup of NATO, and a Greek-Turkish-Jewish war….all within the span of the current football season, which would mean a lot of PIP in the jmfcst household…”Turn it to CNN, I want to watch the Jews and Greeks make some Turkey à la mode…and put CNBC in PIP in the upper left corner, I want to watch the Euro currency implode…but also keep Romo and the Cowboys in PIP in the upper right, just in case Romo's lung decides to explode.”
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dead0man
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« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2011, 01:38:29 PM »

Yeah, the Greeks aren't getting any money....in fact, I think they are buying some hardware, I'll look for the cite.  This really is an obvious alliance, the flags use the same colors afterall.

aye, $155mil worth of bomb upgrades. link
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Insula Dei
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« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2011, 02:06:02 PM »

Considering Greece and Turkey have fought four major wars against each other, I'm sure Greece welcomed the Israeli aces.

Yes.  I don't doubt they welcomed the IDF planes and pilots.  I also suspect they welcomed the currency too.  


I highly doubt there was a payoff involved.  the Greeks, with all their default trouble, are probably looking to get into a scrap with Turkey...and when it comes to getting into a scrap, Isreal is a pretty good ally to have....and for Israel, Greece being a member of NATO would quiet any complaints from NATO about fighting Turkey, who is also a member of NATO.

SO, we could see the ending of the Euro and the breakup of the EU, the breakup of NATO, and a Greek-Turkish-Jewish war….all within the span of the current football season, which would mean a lot of PIP in the jmfcst household…”Turn it to CNN, I want to watch the Jews and Greeks make some Turkey à la mode…and put CNBC in PIP in the upper left corner, I want to watch the Euro currency implode…but also keep Romo and the Cowboys in PIP in the upper right, just in case Romo's lung decides to explode.”

Jmfcst, really, you ought to let us know now and then that you don't actually believe this stuff. I'm starting to get worried.
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jmfcst
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« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2011, 03:20:24 PM »

SO, we could see the ending of the Euro and the breakup of the EU, the breakup of NATO, and a Greek-Turkish-Jewish war….
Jmfcst, really, you ought to let us know now and then that you don't actually believe this stuff. I'm starting to get worried.

a Greek default could set in motion defaults by other EU countries and end the Euro and the EU...that's not far fetched at all, in fact, that's what the contagion fears are all about.

as far as the "breakup of NATO" comment, a Greek(NATO)-Israeli/Turkish(NATO) war wouldnt exactly be healthy for the alliance...though such a war doesnt appear likely
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dead0man
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« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2011, 03:03:25 AM »

I don't know man, the Cyprus drilling issue is coming to a head and soon.  Add in the Palestinian UN vote issue and you've got a lovely box of potential violence waiting to get kicked over.
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dead0man
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« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2011, 04:04:44 AM »

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jmfcst
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« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2011, 09:20:59 AM »
« Edited: September 22, 2011, 07:59:52 PM by jmfcst »


Nobel Energy is a Houston, Texas based company...so it looks like a Texas-Israeli tandem against the Turks.  Texas is Action and the Jews are Money…together we could be legendary!

Dead0man, the whole damn world is going to hell in a handbasket:  “Freedom Now!”…“Peace Reigns!”…”Democracy Rules!”…how are we going to keep the military industrial complex and the energy industry chugging along if there ain’t virus-ridden scum-sucking evil breathing down our necks, threatening our very shores?…

See, our job, as Texans, is to make sure the other side keeps fighting…the “other side” being whatever side we’re officially not on this year…

…but’s that’s all water under the bridge.  
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cavalcade
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« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2011, 06:40:04 PM »

Nobody in their right mind fights a war against the Turks or the Israelis, so I doubt it will come to that. 

This is the sort of thing that Obama really should be settling though- the Israelis are our buddies and the Turkish government establishment is far preferable to the popular will...
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ag
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« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2011, 08:51:42 PM »

You know the old Russian Jewish joke from WWI?  A Jewish mother is saying goodbye to her son, who's been drafted to the Russian Army. "Darling, just don't exert yourself too much. Kill a Turk, and relax; kill a Turk and relax". "Mum, and what if he kills me?" "Why would he, what have you done to him?".

I would suggest to recall, that Turkey has one of the largest and best-trained and best-equipped militaries in the world these days - in fact, it is, by far, the second most important military force in NATO. So, all those who'd like to kill a Turk between bouts of relaxation, should keep that in mind.

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dead0man
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« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2011, 12:54:45 AM »

Second most important military force in NATA?  By far?  It's got the second most number of dudes and is probably number 1 when it comes to strategic placement, but I know I'd rather have the UK or Germany on my side. 

Plus Erdogan has removed many (most?) of the top generals in the Turkey military over the last few years and put his cronies in command, that's never good for a military.

Of course nobody wants to fight a war with Turkey, but if they keep pushing for it, I'm not going to be too concerned for their likely enemies.
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