The Atlas Deluge of Absurdity, Ignorance, and Bad Posts

[minionofmidas]

As a product of Christianity-as-done-by-Vermonters

You were conceived during a Christian ceremony in Vermont? Are you sure it wasn't actually a Wiccan ceremony?

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

As a product of Christianity-as-done-by-Vermonters

You were conceived during a Christian ceremony in Vermont? Are you sure it wasn't actually a Wiccan ceremony?

No, nothing as interesting as that. I was just baptized and raised in a Vermont Federated Church. And I'm fairly sure it was legit Christian, since there was only the one chalice.

[Link]

False equivalence is a staple of any controversial discussion forum.  The purpose of this thread is to collect some of the gems from Atlas Forum in one easy to reference place.

[Link]

Illegal immigration will never be ''solved'' because businesses thrive on it

Slavery was "solved" and businesses thrived on it.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Don't start a new thread to prove some political point that you think what someone else said was stupid... put it in the "I'm so smart, look at how dumb this is" deluge of whateverness or whatever that thread's called.

[Link]

Illegal immigration will never be ''solved'' because businesses thrive on it

Slavery was "solved" and businesses thrived on it.

Don't start a new thread to prove some political point that you think what someone else said was stupid... put it in the "I'm so smart, look at how dumb this is" deluge of whateverness or whatever that thread's called.

Whoa moderator!  Take a chill pill dude.  I was pointing out a false equivalence (a common and amusing occurence around here).  I was not trying to prove a political point.  I didn't think it was "dumb" or "stupid."  Aren't moderators supposed to mmmm... moderate?  No wonder you have a picture of a volcano and a tornado in you signature.  By the way I rarely start threads.  I've posted a lot to other people's threads but endlessly spawning threads is not my style.  You have me confused with someone else.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Romney will be accepting the nomination with Mount Rushmore as the backdrop, as he, of course, is the heir to the Presidents portrayed on that historic edifice.

[Wonkish1]

I had some right-wing teachers in high school.  in college not openly in the sense that none of them openly spoke favorably about Republican candidates, but the economics profs spouted enough neoliberal orthodoxy to make all that irrelevant, regardless of whether or not they may have voted Obama.

Just like you to claim that the study of economics is an "orthodoxy".

the neoliberal takeover of economics/business departments of the past 30-40 years (starting before that of course) amounts to a orthodoxist movement, yes.  with striking consequences esp. in the third world.

[Lief 🗽]

This is a race involving an unpopular incumbent (his approval rating is ten points or more lower than Carter's in January 1980), and the Republican candidate has nothing to do with George W. Bush or Washington this time (much like the 1980 race and Republican ticket had nothing to do with Nixon), so it is way too early to say much of anything other than the following:

Obama - 37
Romney - 170
Up in the Air - 331

In other words, Romney only needs 100 out of 331 (or, put another way, an electoral batting average of .302 versus Obama's required electoral batting average of .704)...

[King]

This is a race involving an unpopular incumbent (his approval rating is ten points or more lower than Carter's in January 1980), and the Republican candidate has nothing to do with George W. Bush or Washington this time (much like the 1980 race and Republican ticket had nothing to do with Nixon), so it is way too early to say much of anything other than the following:

Obama - 37
Romney - 170
Up in the Air - 331

In other words, Romney only needs 100 out of 331 (or, put another way, an electoral batting average of .302 versus Obama's required electoral batting average of .704)...

Because it needs to be in here twice.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Good God, I really don't want to see him trounced in the general- but he's quite a bad debater and then he has to come out and practically admit it!

This is exactly how we want everybody talking going into the first debate with Obama.

You guys don't think Romney mailed in a bad performance the other night because he wanted to do well, do you? And you don't think the 12-15 good performances before the other night were just a fluke, do you?

Remember: Things aren't always what they seem...

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

There is no other explanation for his rejection of the Keystone XL pipeline:

The Obama Administration rejected the controversial Keystone XL pipeline project on Wednesday, scuttling a key energy initiative that would have created an influx of badly-needed  U.S. jobs, but one that has also riled environmentalists.

Obama was under heavy pressure on a number of fronts on the Keystone pipeline as Republicans pointed to the need to create jobs and lower gasoline prices while others worried about the project’s environmental consequences.

"By declaring that the Keystone pipeline is not in the ‘national interest,’ the President demonstrates a lack of seriousness about bringing down unemployment, restoring economic growth, and achieving energy independence," GOP presidential frontrunner Mitt Romney said in a statement.

Read more: http://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/2012/01/18/obama-admin-to-reject-keystone-pipeline-project-source/#ixzz1jqY0t5tQ

Obama pandering to the green environmentalists.

What he says he is doing, and what he is actually doing are two different things. He says he is listening to environmentalists, but what he's really doing is pandering to Saudi Arabia and the rest of OPEC.

[Oakvale]

Should someone mention to Politico that there was a thing called the Iran hostage crisis, or would that just be confusing?

[Joe Republic]

FYI: I am registered Democrat.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

I'll certainly vote against it, but Miles, if you're on the fence, keep in mind that this amendment could jeopardize other unmarried relationships, and turn away prospective businesses.

Nope... That argument is used as a very common talking point, but there is absolutely no evidence that it occurred in the other 32 States that passed such Amendments.

Of course lying for Homosexuality is Alinsky 101.

[JohnnyLongtorso]

Can we just assume that every post Politico makes should go in here? Otherwise he's just going to take up the entire thread.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

CaDan. 'Nuff said.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=147286.0

Note: I have yet to read anything beyond the OP.

[Lambsbread]

There should be a separate graph with a "has some values versus moral degenerate" axis. Gingrich obviously falls into the latter whereas Romney and Paul occupy the former. I am pretty sure Romney has been married to his wife since Callista Gingrich was in Kindergarten, and Paul has been married to his wife longer than Callista has been alive.

[minionofmidas]

There should be a separate graph with a "has some values versus moral degenerate" axis. Gingrich obviously falls into the latter whereas Romney and Paul occupy the former. I am pretty sure Romney has been married to his wife since Callista Gingrich was in Kindergarten, and Paul has been married to his wife longer than Callista has been alive.

I somehow misread this, not on purpose, such that "Callista Gingrich" is a reference to Romney's wife... it becomes comedy goldmine material that way. If not Oh Snap material (as an attack on Romney.)

[CLARENCE 2015!]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

That is from Politico... I have not laughed so reading a post on here- not even at opebo's cracks!

[Lambsbread]

Some folks need to stop jumping to conclusions assuming that they more than Romney. Romney realizes that Russia is crony capitalism, China is state capitalism, and North Korea is communism.

FYI: Mitt 12 is a significant improvement over the Mitt Vista of four years ago. Obamac addicts need to stop assuming the new Mitt edition is strictly cosmetic. It has been thoroughly demonstrated time and time again that we've improved Mitt's capabilities, specifically with regards to output efficiency and memory retrieval.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Despite the abundance of red avatars, this place is pretty right-wing. It just so happens that the only choice is between a moderate, center-right party and a bunch of idiot crypto-fascists.

Its funny how people like to advertise how crazy to the left they are.

OK, let's clear things up once and (hopefully) forever.

Are left-wingers the main politcal group in this forum ? Yes, American liberalism/European social-democracy is the most numerically strong ideological viewpoint represented in the Atlas. Fair enough.

Is our average poster left-wing ? Depends what you refer to as left-wing. Regarding social issues, the liberal/permissive view is definitely prevailing. There is a significant socially conservative wing, but every poll tends to demonstrate 60-70% of the forum is a progressive on most topics. This is certainly, as Hughentho said, a byproduct of the Atlas' demographics, with a dominance of young and wealthy posters. Fair enough.
But now let's be serious. On economic issues, on topics like taxation, welfare or labor unions, it is silly to say the forum is left-wing. Sure, there are a lot of economic left-wingers. But if you have a look at our median poster you actually find an economic centrist, a market liberal who believes some government intervention is necessary, but not too much. Just look at how many posters have an economic score comprised between 3 and -3. Think to people like Torie, Franzl or Gustaf. These people represent the Atlas consensus : if you are to their right, you are to the right of the forum as a whole, and conversely. If there is a qualificative you can apply to this forum relative to economic issues, from a neutral standpoint, it's moderate/pragmatic. Which doesn't mean this is the view of the forum as a whole. Maybe, at the maximum, the tally is 40%/30%/30% (more probably 35/35/30 or 35/30/35), but in this case econ progressives still are only a plurality.

Are left-wingers overrepresented ? Conservatives are underrepresented for sure, but does that mean left-wingers are overrepresented in this forum ? If they are, the difference is very slight. The most overrepresented group is certainly the libertarians (which explains the huge gap between social and economic views). There are easily 20% of libertarians in this forum, even though in the US as a whole they are a pretty marginal group (and if you include Europe they outright disappear). So really, all the talks about a "left-wing" bias is, at best, exagerated.

Are left-wingers more hackish than libertarians, conservatives and moderates ? No. Just no. No matter how you define hackish, you can't honestly claim the average leftie is more hackish than the average forumer. This just isn't true. You do find a lot of posters who don't have particularly original views, or stubborn posters who assert their views without debating. These ones could be called "minor hacks" Of such posters, liberals, conservatives and libertarians are pretty equally represented.
Now, let's talk about "major hacks", that is narrow-minded, self-righteous people who are totally unable to question their own views, who systematically engage in name-calling, logical fallacies and oversimplifications, who think the entire everybody is stupid because they don't agree with them. I'm sorry to say, but these posters are far more common among conservatives and libertarians than among other posters. I'm saying this in absolute objectivity. There have been, and still are major hacks among left-wingers (Hoffmanjohn, Link and a couple more). But let's take a quick look at how many conservative and libertarian hacks we have or had ! Let's see if I manage to cite all. AZmagic, CARLHAYDEN, Hamilton, Libertas, Wormyguy, Feeblepizza, JCL, DWTL back in time, SvenssonRS, BigSkyBob, JewishConservative, Wonkish, CaDan, Saorsa. I'm certainly forgetting most of them. How many can I count on the left side ? Well, there are/were Link, Hoffmanjohn, Pbrower... I honestly can't think about more (though there certainly are a couple more). What about Opebo ? He has extreme views and is pretty assertive about them, yes. But if you include him there's no reason not to include Jmfcst too. Extremism doesn't equal hackery.

But aren't you (and the left-wing majority) biased against conservatives and libertarians ? Well, maybe. Who knows ? But if you are to engage in this way, there isn't much left to argue. You can even go on and claim that reality is biased in favor of the left.


I doubt this will make the whiners shut up, but it feels better to say it.

I'm going to repeat what I said before, "Its funny how people like to advertise how crazy to the left they are." Strike through warranted because of an improvement over the last one.

And Torie isn't the median person on these forums. A much better guess would be Beet(especially when you are talking on the E side of the PM). He's probably to the right to almost all of the liberals that don't participate on the econ board, but he is still considerably to the left of someone like Torie.

Maybe Atlas is becoming a "Dem hack site", but to say the Democrats are a "left-wing" party is mind-numbingly stupid, and very Americentric, I might add.

Again, "Its funny how people like to advertise how crazy to the left they are."

By American standards this site is very left-wing: the conservatives tend to support gay marriage, are pro-choice and are willing to support the welfare state while the a significant minority of the left are outright socialists. I don't see how that makes us a "Dem hack site" though, it just means that the GOP is really repulsive to anyone with a modicum of education. Notice that there isn't much Democratic cheerleading on this site, even from posters with red avatars. We tend to support them as a lesser of two evils. If you want to go to a Dem hack site, visit Daily Kos Elections.

If this is about Mitt Romney receiving a lot of flack here, that has more to do with his plastic mannerisms and character traits, his avarice/lust for power and the fact that we really enjoy drawn out elections. Seeing as this is a site for people who are devoted to following elections and analyzing psephology that shouldn't surprise you.

Again, "Its funny how people like to advertise how crazy to the left they are."

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Dear moderators,


Please move all Wonkish posts directly to this thread.

[Wonkish1]

Despite the abundance of red avatars, this place is pretty right-wing. It just so happens that the only choice is between a moderate, center-right party and a bunch of idiot crypto-fascists.

Its funny how people like to advertise how crazy to the left they are.

OK, let's clear things up once and (hopefully) forever.

Are left-wingers the main politcal group in this forum ? Yes, American liberalism/European social-democracy is the most numerically strong ideological viewpoint represented in the Atlas. Fair enough.

Is our average poster left-wing ? Depends what you refer to as left-wing. Regarding social issues, the liberal/permissive view is definitely prevailing. There is a significant socially conservative wing, but every poll tends to demonstrate 60-70% of the forum is a progressive on most topics. This is certainly, as Hughentho said, a byproduct of the Atlas' demographics, with a dominance of young and wealthy posters. Fair enough.
But now let's be serious. On economic issues, on topics like taxation, welfare or labor unions, it is silly to say the forum is left-wing. Sure, there are a lot of economic left-wingers. But if you have a look at our median poster you actually find an economic centrist, a market liberal who believes some government intervention is necessary, but not too much. Just look at how many posters have an economic score comprised between 3 and -3. Think to people like Torie, Franzl or Gustaf. These people represent the Atlas consensus : if you are to their right, you are to the right of the forum as a whole, and conversely. If there is a qualificative you can apply to this forum relative to economic issues, from a neutral standpoint, it's moderate/pragmatic. Which doesn't mean this is the view of the forum as a whole. Maybe, at the maximum, the tally is 40%/30%/30% (more probably 35/35/30 or 35/30/35), but in this case econ progressives still are only a plurality.

Are left-wingers overrepresented ? Conservatives are underrepresented for sure, but does that mean left-wingers are overrepresented in this forum ? If they are, the difference is very slight. The most overrepresented group is certainly the libertarians (which explains the huge gap between social and economic views). There are easily 20% of libertarians in this forum, even though in the US as a whole they are a pretty marginal group (and if you include Europe they outright disappear). So really, all the talks about a "left-wing" bias is, at best, exagerated.

Are left-wingers more hackish than libertarians, conservatives and moderates ? No. Just no. No matter how you define hackish, you can't honestly claim the average leftie is more hackish than the average forumer. This just isn't true. You do find a lot of posters who don't have particularly original views, or stubborn posters who assert their views without debating. These ones could be called "minor hacks" Of such posters, liberals, conservatives and libertarians are pretty equally represented.
Now, let's talk about "major hacks", that is narrow-minded, self-righteous people who are totally unable to question their own views, who systematically engage in name-calling, logical fallacies and oversimplifications, who think the entire everybody is stupid because they don't agree with them. I'm sorry to say, but these posters are far more common among conservatives and libertarians than among other posters. I'm saying this in absolute objectivity. There have been, and still are major hacks among left-wingers (Hoffmanjohn, Link and a couple more). But let's take a quick look at how many conservative and libertarian hacks we have or had ! Let's see if I manage to cite all. AZmagic, CARLHAYDEN, Hamilton, Libertas, Wormyguy, Feeblepizza, JCL, DWTL back in time, SvenssonRS, BigSkyBob, JewishConservative, Wonkish, CaDan, Saorsa. I'm certainly forgetting most of them. How many can I count on the left side ? Well, there are/were Link, Hoffmanjohn, Pbrower... I honestly can't think about more (though there certainly are a couple more). What about Opebo ? He has extreme views and is pretty assertive about them, yes. But if you include him there's no reason not to include Jmfcst too. Extremism doesn't equal hackery.

But aren't you (and the left-wing majority) biased against conservatives and libertarians ? Well, maybe. Who knows ? But if you are to engage in this way, there isn't much left to argue. You can even go on and claim that reality is biased in favor of the left.


I doubt this will make the whiners shut up, but it feels better to say it.

I'm going to repeat what I said before, "Its funny how people like to advertise how crazy to the left they are." Strike through warranted because of an improvement over the last one.

And Torie isn't the median person on these forums. A much better guess would be Beet(especially when you are talking on the E side of the PM). He's probably to the right to almost all of the liberals that don't participate on the econ board, but he is still considerably to the left of someone like Torie.

Maybe Atlas is becoming a "Dem hack site", but to say the Democrats are a "left-wing" party is mind-numbingly stupid, and very Americentric, I might add.

Again, "Its funny how people like to advertise how crazy to the left they are."

By American standards this site is very left-wing: the conservatives tend to support gay marriage, are pro-choice and are willing to support the welfare state while the a significant minority of the left are outright socialists. I don't see how that makes us a "Dem hack site" though, it just means that the GOP is really repulsive to anyone with a modicum of education. Notice that there isn't much Democratic cheerleading on this site, even from posters with red avatars. We tend to support them as a lesser of two evils. If you want to go to a Dem hack site, visit Daily Kos Elections.

If this is about Mitt Romney receiving a lot of flack here, that has more to do with his plastic mannerisms and character traits, his avarice/lust for power and the fact that we really enjoy drawn out elections. Seeing as this is a site for people who are devoted to following elections and analyzing psephology that shouldn't surprise you.

Again, "Its funny how people like to advertise how crazy to the left they are."

Thanks Antonio for posting all of the stupid $hit other people posted for me! You really know how to do our work for us, and make yourself look bad.

I mean this is only coming off you embarrassing yourself by posting an attack on economics by you on here a week or so ago.

Your on a roll!