2012 NDP leadership convention

[lilTommy]

Does Maythissen is/was a London MP?
London-Fawshane, I think?

Yes... she still is an MP, i think 2006 she won. Before that she was an MPP in the Rae gov't 90-95... i think her riding was Middlesex (county where London is located)

[Hatman 🍁]

Ryan Cleary endorsed Thomas Mulcair

New map:

[Peter the Lefty]

And THAT my friends, is the EXACT attitude I was referring to when I said the NDP has an attitude in it that makes people want to leave.

It's one thing if it's over the gun registry or something like that, which was a mistake for Turmel to discipline that one MP over.  But if someone wants to deny gays of fundamental human rights, than they have absolutely NO place in the NDP. 

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

And THAT my friends, is the EXACT attitude I was referring to when I said the NDP has an attitude in it that makes people want to leave.

It's one thing if it's over the gun registry or something like that, which was a mistake for Turmel to discipline that one MP over.  But if someone wants to deny gays of fundamental human rights, than they have absolutely NO place in the NDP. 

Is marriage a "fundamental human right"?

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

I support civil unions and marriage, I really don't see the difference. I know some people do and say that if you want to give 2 people the same rights as a married couple, but call it something else, then knock yourself out. How am I opposing fundamental human rights by having this opinion?

Frankly, the more you guys try to argue against what I said - that the NDP has an exclusionary attitude problem - the more you prove my point.

[Peter the Lefty]

And THAT my friends, is the EXACT attitude I was referring to when I said the NDP has an attitude in it that makes people want to leave.

It's one thing if it's over the gun registry
 or something like that, which was a mistake for Turmel to discipline that one MP over.  But if someone wants to deny gays of fundamental human rights, than they have absolutely NO place in the NDP. 

Is marriage a "fundamental human right"?

Yes it is, and there is a difference. If a guy asked his girlfriend "will you civil union me?", would it have the same meaning/power as "will you marry me?" And we shouldn't even have to debate it.  If the NDP considers it to be a fundamental human right, than it shouldn't have any MPs who oppose it.  Just like the Conservatives, who consider the right to practice a religion to be fundamental, shouldn't have any MP's who want to abolish religion because of that.  And the Bloc Québécois, which believes that Quebec has a right to sovereignty, shouldn't have any MPs who believe that Quebec should not have the right to self-determination.

[RogueBeaver]

Mulcair defuses a fundraising flap.

http://www.ipolitics.ca/2012/01/28/mulcair-denies-report-he-hasnt-donated-to-ndp/

[Peter the Lefty]

Mulcair defuses a fundraising flap.

http://www.ipolitics.ca/2012/01/28/mulcair-denies-report-he-hasnt-donated-to-ndp/

Now I wonder if he will defuse the reports that after he left Quebec provincial politics, he considered joining the Conservatives.

[RogueBeaver]

We did court him at the time as a courtesy. But ideologically he's a left-Liberal and so the possibility was always nonexistent. Liberals put more time into their courting- but they got another Quebec star shortly thereafter.

[adma]

Mulcair would have been courted by the Mulroney Conservatives in 1984, for sure.  (Remember: Nick Auf der Maur ran for the Tories that year)

[DL]

Of course if Mulcair becomes NDP leader it will be tough for the Tories to both attack him and also spread the word they they thought so highly of him that they tried very hard to get him to join them and run as a Tory and that he rejected them.

[RogueBeaver]

It was a pro forma request. The Liberals did a full-court press because they were looking for a good pick in Outremont. Mulcair joined the NDP, and Dion turned Trudeau down when he offered to run against Mulcair in Outremont- instead appointing a personal friend who got trounced. At the time we had Verner, Cannon and Bernier- so I doubt the PM was really looking for another Quebec star. Especially a headline-hunter like Mulcair.

On another note, Turmel is killing you guys.

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20120128/nanos-poll-liberals-tories-globe-CTV-20120128/

[Holmes]

Ugh, I know. We need Tom now.

[Хahar 🤔]

Mulcair would have been courted by the Mulroney Conservatives in 1984, for sure.  (Remember: Nick Auf der Maur ran for the Tories that year)

Of course, everyone who didn't like Trudeau was a Tory in 1984.

[RogueBeaver]

Mulcair got targeted in today's debate.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ndp-leadership-hopefuls-target-mulcair-in-second-debate/article2318765/

[Peter the Lefty]

On another note, Turmel is killing you guys.

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20120128/nanos-poll-liberals-tories-globe-CTV-20120128/

Yeah.  You can't blame her, though.  She's a freshman MP with no experience in politics.  It puzzles me to think that Jack chose her as his interim replacement.  I guess his cancer, wherever it was, was one which he thought he could beat, and then return to parliament and save the party.  Sigh...none of the candidates I like seem to be able to fully heal the wounds which Turmel has caused (though I would be cruel to be angry at her for it), except Cullen, who's joint nominations idea I just can't seem to get past.  I still wish Megan Leslie were running.  She would make a great leader.

[Peter the Lefty]

We did court him at the time as a courtesy. But ideologically he's a left-Liberal and so the possibility was always nonexistent. Liberals put more time into their courting- but they got another Quebec star shortly thereafter.

Yes, but didn't the negotiations go as far as talks regarding a cabinet position?

[RogueBeaver]

Mulcair: Most definitely not. The Liberals put more effort into it, but bad blood between Dion and Mulcair (very unpleasant public exchanges when both were at Environment) would have prevented it, forgetting their policy disagreements.

Turmel: All she had to do was allow her frontbench to keep their Shadow Cabinet positions.

[Peter the Lefty]

Okay, you're right.  Bad news federally: A new Nanos poll.
Conservatives: 35.7%
Liberals: 27.6%
NDP: 25.2%
Bloc Quebecois-5.6%
Green Party-4.5%

Margin of error was + or - 3.2%.  Still though, bad news.  I wish Turmel would give the interim leadership to either Peter Julian or even another, more charismatic Quebec MP, like Raymond Cote, Philip Toone, Guy Caron, Paulina Ayala, or someone else like that. 

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Sometimes the point of picking an interim replacement is to pick someone without any realistic aspirations to leadership. Regardless, no one should pay any attention to any polls until the new leaders are all enthroned.

[RogueBeaver]

If the first ballot was held today, what would it look like?

[RogueBeaver]

Quite frankly I find this a tempest-in-the-teapot scenario.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/cash%2Bfrom%2BMulcair%2Bthree%2Byears/6069505/story.html

[DL]

Turmel: All she had to do was allow her frontbench to keep their Shadow Cabinet positions.

Its pretty standard procedure for all parties in Canada that if you run for leader - you have to resign from cabinet or from any shadow cabinet portfolios. I don't think there was ever much of an option. As it happens, of the eight people running for leader two (Topp and Singh) are not MPs and have no portfolios in the shadow cabinet to begin with. Two more (Ashton and Cullen) are not part of the shadow cabinet and are instead Commons committee chairs.

When all is said and done - in October of 2015 none of this will matter a hoot. It will all depend on the new leader and how he or she does. Did it matter in 1993 that for a year in 1989-1990 the federal Liberals were ineffectual under the interim leadership of Herb Gray? Did it hurt Stephen Harper in 2004 that back in 2001 the Canadian Alliance was in total disarray and split into two parties and for a while was led on an interim basis by John Reynolds?

I think that it made sense to pick Turmel as an interim leader because the interim leader had to meet a couple of criteria: they had to speak French perfectly since 60% of the new caucus was from Quebec and included a lot of unilingual francophones, they had to have no interest at all in becoming permanent leader, and they had to be respected in caucus and have some experience in leadership positions. In retrospect the only other person who might have fit the bill would have been Joe Comartin (who is actually franco-Ontarian) - but it was not 100% clear that he was not going to seek the leadership himself back in the summer.

People criticize Turmel for not doing good clips in English during Question Period - fair enough. But for all we know she may be doing a very good job behind the scenes in terms of managing caucus and internal organization

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

no one should pay attention to any polls until
A - 2 months have passed showing the same results, and
B - During these 2 months there have been at least 10 polls from at least 3 different companies, and
C - those results show a party having lost or gained 1st, 2nd, or 3rd in a region or province of the country.

[lilTommy]

I agree with Teddy its too early to "freak out" just yet... worry yes, since the trend has been on the downside but i think that's directly attributed to the fact the:
a) leaderless and a leadership race that until now isn't get much attention;
b) weak interim leader;against a strong 3rd party leader
... next leadership debate is all french in Quebec city, so that might garner some much needed PQ media attention.

Who watched the Halifax debate?
I thought this one was much more passionate, yes they were all taking shots at Harper but that's the main target so in the end they need to practise that too.
But were starting to see differences coming out, and contenders are going after each other on them.
Mulcair, Cullen and Dewar were targeted the most; Mulcair can swing right back at them, he showed how powerful of a speaker he can be without coming across as a raving lunatic. I thought he hadled each attack well and to me nothing stuck.
Cullen defended his join nominations well and i think gave more details as its a "members wish" type of approach, i still like the guy  and hes sure the most funny and likeable, but this plank isn't a winner but he sure did defend it and part of me liked it (as a means to win then introduce MMP)
Dewar handled himself well in the attacks and also tried to get at Mulcair which he paid for being blasted by Mulcair. Hes definitely trying to get more liked he was recounting more personal stories any chance he could.
Nash has more fire in her belly now, she was i think the least attacked so I'm not sure what the means, but did go after Cullen.
Saganash still feels like he not confident in English, you saw his demeanour change drastically when he spoke french... its great to have him in the race but he can't win with his English.
Topp was just lackluster, funny at time but never really wow'in me, he deafened well his tax plan and went after Mulcair on it, i found they both had great points and now i am waiting to see what Mulcair will release on tax fairness (since he said he would)
Singh will make a great MP and again continues to perform well for a novice but he is a one message kinda guy.
Ashton, speaks much better than Saganash but i find her always (in the debates) rather angry but like saganash I'm glad shes in this thing.

Change anyone mind?
I still think Mulcair, Nash, Dewar... maybe Topp are the top 4.