2012 NDP leadership convention
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Author Topic: 2012 NDP leadership convention  (Read 144453 times)
Holmes
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« Reply #125 on: August 30, 2011, 03:50:14 PM »

You're not feeling Topp either, Hatman? I dunno. I think he rubs me the wrong way, leader-wise. How much do we even know about him? And he's been behind the scenes for so long... hasn't even held office. This whole Brian Topp thing seems like it came out of nowhere.
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #126 on: August 30, 2011, 03:51:23 PM »

You're not feeling Topp either, Hatman? I dunno. I think he rubs me the wrong way, leader-wise. How much do we even know about him? And he's been behind the scenes for so long... hasn't even held office. This whole Brian Topp thing seems like it came out of nowhere.

It came out of the Layton staff's ABM machinations.
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MaxQue
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« Reply #127 on: August 30, 2011, 03:52:55 PM »

You're not feeling Topp either, Hatman? I dunno. I think he rubs me the wrong way, leader-wise. How much do we even know about him? And he's been behind the scenes for so long... hasn't even held office. This whole Brian Topp thing seems like it came out of nowhere.

Believe me, I dislike him. I have my reasons, which I refuse to post publically here.
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #128 on: August 30, 2011, 04:33:36 PM »

Pat Martin phoned into P&P. Said that he staunchly supports "formal cooperation" with the Grits and will run if no one else advocates that position. Also said that he's heard rumblings of discontent with the Topp camp's leaks last week WRT Layton's letter.
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MaxQue
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« Reply #129 on: August 30, 2011, 04:47:57 PM »

What is P&P? Anyways, I think than any candidate running on a merger platform will perform poorly. In any case, the centrist wing of Liberals and the socialist wing of the NDP will probably never get along. And I doubt than the big Liberals egos (Rae, Trudeau, Brison...) will accept being a minority in their own party.
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #130 on: August 30, 2011, 04:55:27 PM »

What is P&P? Anyways, I think than any candidate running on a merger platform will perform poorly. In any case, the centrist wing of Liberals and the socialist wing of the NDP will probably never get along. And I doubt than the big Liberals egos (Rae, Trudeau, Brison...) will accept being a minority in their own party.

Power & Politics= P&P. I agree with you, and the two parties are incompatible ideologically and culturally- that's without taking egos into account.
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MaxQue
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« Reply #131 on: August 30, 2011, 04:57:10 PM »

What is P&P? Anyways, I think than any candidate running on a merger platform will perform poorly. In any case, the centrist wing of Liberals and the socialist wing of the NDP will probably never get along. And I doubt than the big Liberals egos (Rae, Trudeau, Brison...) will accept being a minority in their own party.

Power & Politics= P&P. I agree with you, and the two parties are incompatible ideologically and culturally- that's without taking egos into account.

Position on Quebec would a big problem too. Trudeau's view vs. Sherbrooke Declaration.
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Teddy (IDS Legislator)
nickjbor
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« Reply #132 on: August 30, 2011, 05:13:36 PM »

Uh... lack of time to sell memberships will not hurt Mulcair, it will help him. Time is Mulcair's enemy. If the election were held the moment I hit the post button, Mulcair would win, even if they used a preferential ballot.
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DL
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« Reply #133 on: August 30, 2011, 06:19:56 PM »


Anyways, even if the party insiders want Topp to win, that doesn't mean he will. In the provincial convention, all the insiders wanted Tabuns to win (including Ed Broadbent), but Andrea Horwath won.


That's not quite correct. While some federal level insiders like Broadbent and people around Layton were supporting Tabuns for the ONDP leadership, Horwath was supported by Hampton and all the people around him at Ontario NDP HQ - so she had her own universe of insiders on her side.
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Hatman 🍁
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« Reply #134 on: August 30, 2011, 10:02:56 PM »

Pat Martin said what!? That crazy loon. I have an idea where he can put all those pennies he hates.
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MaxQue
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« Reply #135 on: August 30, 2011, 10:28:52 PM »

Pat Martin said what!? That crazy loon. I have an idea where he can put all those pennies he hates.

Calm down. The NDP is a mature party and a serious discussion must be held on that subject, I think. My opinion on that is already done, but, some in the party disagree. Him running could be useful to know which %age of the party supports it.

And yes, Pat Martin is a little bit loony, but that isn't new. He is against monarchy, too.
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Hatman 🍁
EarlAW
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« Reply #136 on: August 30, 2011, 11:33:00 PM »

Pat Martin said what!? That crazy loon. I have an idea where he can put all those pennies he hates.

Calm down. The NDP is a mature party and a serious discussion must be held on that subject, I think. My opinion on that is already done, but, some in the party disagree. Him running could be useful to know which %age of the party supports it.

And yes, Pat Martin is a little bit loony, but that isn't new. He is against monarchy, too.

Well, many NDPers are against the monarchy, that's nothing new.

I don't mind the NDP moderating itself, that's ok. We're a Social Democratic party at heart, and that's what counts. We need to be moderate, and then move Canadians to the left with us. We can't sit around and wait for them to come to us. We have to go them and bring them to the promise land. That's what Tommy Douglas did in Saskatchewan. If we merge with the Liberals, then what will the promise land be?
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Foucaulf
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« Reply #137 on: August 31, 2011, 02:41:09 AM »

The way I see it, there are only two arguments supporting a NDP-Liberal merger: that it moderates the party and put experience into the party. Both are horribly misleading.

  • It's common practice to refer to the Liberals as a "centrist" party, because "party of power" is slightly messier; even when they're put together "centrist" takes up front. But try convincing an Albertan who witnessed the NEP that the Liberals are centrist in any way. "Party of power" is a much better way to describe the Liberals, and the centrism is just a label of the Chretien years after the fact. The NDP can do without dealing with interest group politics that forces moderation.
  • What kind of experience could the Liberals provide? Their current caucus is filled either with backbenchers from Atlantic Canada or Toronto (both of which saw NDP gains) or bigwigs like Dion, Coderre and Goodale who have tabled policy anathema to the things the NDP stands for. It's also not as if there haven't been NDP governments in the provinces, and the latter experience may be more important as intergovernmental negotiations start again.
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Teddy (IDS Legislator)
nickjbor
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« Reply #138 on: August 31, 2011, 02:48:44 AM »

Any Liberals supporting merger should off and join the NDP. It's not like any of them are in any not-winnible NDP ridings.

The Liberals, if they want to return to Government, need to steal seats not from the NDP, but from the Tories. This means seats in Calgary. The Liberals need not turn left, they need to turn right. Canada is becoming a more small-c conservative country.
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lilTommy
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« Reply #139 on: August 31, 2011, 11:31:34 AM »

If the NDP can keep this support building, this race will indeed be to choose the next PM, thats a big prize, might see some out-of-caucus names appear

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/public-grief-over-layton-puts-ndp-even-with-tories-in-poll/article2148563/

HARRIS DECIMA
Tories - 33%
NDP - 33%
Liberals - 21%
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Hatman 🍁
EarlAW
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« Reply #140 on: August 31, 2011, 11:42:14 AM »

If the NDP can keep this support building, this race will indeed be to choose the next PM, thats a big prize, might see some out-of-caucus names appear

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/public-grief-over-layton-puts-ndp-even-with-tories-in-poll/article2148563/

HARRIS DECIMA
Tories - 33%
NDP - 33%
Liberals - 21%

Oh, I guess you beat me to it.
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MaxQue
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« Reply #141 on: August 31, 2011, 12:52:40 PM »

Radio-Canada says than Megan Leslie and Robert Chisholm are both considering a run.

Leslie is bilingual, Chisholm is spending the summer in Quebec to learn French.
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Peter the Lefty
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« Reply #142 on: August 31, 2011, 02:43:29 PM »

Wasn't Dewar's mother from Quebec?
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Holmes
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« Reply #143 on: August 31, 2011, 02:47:19 PM »
« Edited: August 31, 2011, 02:48:54 PM by Holmes »

Oh! Leslie was raised in Kirkland Lake. Smiley

Also, notice that the NDP numbers didn't go up, just that the Tories went down... I think the more important numbers will be after the new leader is chosen. But if the numbers in Ontario are 34 Conservative - 30 NDP, that's goodbye Liberals. Even more.
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lilTommy
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« Reply #144 on: August 31, 2011, 02:48:14 PM »


As per wiki, yes.... Born in Montreal and raised in Buckingham PQ.

Well the last poll i think had the NDP at 31... 33 is still up, you know us NewDems, slow and steady wins the race right Tongue
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Teddy (IDS Legislator)
nickjbor
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« Reply #145 on: August 31, 2011, 02:51:02 PM »

Chisholm is the guy who almost lead the NS NDP to government, but didn't (in part), because of personal failings. I have a hard time seeing him as leader.
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #146 on: August 31, 2011, 02:58:35 PM »

Leslie would be an interesting candidate, but I don't see her making the final ballot.
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MaxQue
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« Reply #147 on: August 31, 2011, 03:08:27 PM »

Oh! Leslie was raised in Kirkland Lake. Smiley

Also, notice that the NDP numbers didn't go up, just that the Tories went down... I think the more important numbers will be after the new leader is chosen. But if the numbers in Ontario are 34 Conservative - 30 NDP, that's goodbye Liberals. Even more.

Considering than NDP got 30% last election, NDP went up. (Or didn't, by considering the error margin.)
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #148 on: August 31, 2011, 03:12:15 PM »

Far too early for such things to matter all that much, I think.
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DL
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« Reply #149 on: August 31, 2011, 03:46:16 PM »

I just saw a tweet that Romeo Saganash will run! Good to have a Quebecer in the race in addition to Mulcair - esp. one who is Cree as well!
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