Washington State Recount, Part Deux

[Alcon]

So far, Mason County (slightly Rossi and somewhat small) and Garfield County (strong Rossi and virtually unpopulated) have finished their recounts and Republican Dino Rossi has gained 12 votes to Gregoire's 9. Libertarian candidate Ruth Bennett has lost 2 votes.

"The recount went quickly in Shelton, where workers were fueled by coffee, soda and cookies supplied by the county."

Clark (moderate Rossi, very populated); Skamania (fairly strong Rossi, quite small population); San Juan (strong Gregoire, small to moderate population); and Benton (strong Rossi, moderate to large population) started counting at the same time as Garfield County but are yet to report.

Rossi's vote lead has increased from 42 to 45.

[Alcon]

It doesn't matter how many times Rossi wins the election, Gregoire and associates will keep calling for a recount until somehow she wins.

The parties actually agreed on this. Whoever lost the machine recount would pay for a manual recount.

Both parties have been remarkably well-behaved.

New reports from various counties have ended up with Rossi now gaining 29 votes to Gregoire's 28 and with Ruth Bennett losing 2, for a net Rossi gain of 1. Rossi now leads by 43 votes.

[Alcon]

Your intitial posting suggest that the votes have previously been counted only once, which is false.

There have already been two countes (both of which were won by Rossi).

If he prevails in the current rerecount, will Gregoire drop the matter?

What?

What part of my first post does? "Washington State Recount, Part Deux"?

There have been THREE counts:

- The original account, which Rossi won by a few hundred.
- The machine recount, which was automatic, and Rossi won by 42 votes.
- This recount, which was agreed on by the Democrats and Republicans, and paid for by the party that lost the machine recount (the Democrats).

I am not sure if Gregoire will drop the matter, but I think it will be the right thing to do. But so far both parties have behaved amazingly well. There have been no major fights.

[Alcon]

Various states have now reported. Rossi's lead has increased to 70. The following counties are remaining:

Approximately 875,900 votes
King (Strong Gregoire)

100,000-500,000 votes
Clark (Lean Rossi)
Pierce (Weak Rossi)
Snohomish (Weak Rossi)
Spokane (Lean Rossi)
Thurston (Lean Gregoire)

30,000-100,000 votes
Benton (Strong Rossi)
Cowlitz (Lean Gregoire)
Island (Lean Rossi)
Skagit (Weak Rossi)
Whatcom (Weak Gregoire)
Yakima (Strong Rossi)

10,000-30,000 votes
Chelan (Strong Rossi)
Douglas (Strong Rossi)
Franklin (Strong Rossi)
Grant (Strong Rossi)
Kittitas (Strong Rossi)
Okanogan (Strong Rossi)
Whitman (Lean Rossi)

Under 10,000 votes
Asotin (Strong Rossi)
Klickitat (Strong Rossi)
San Juan (Strong Gregoire)

Already reported
Adams
Clallam
Columbia
Ferry*
Garfield*
Grays Harbor (good job this time!)
Jefferson
Kitsap (161 votes added - most of any county)
Lewis
Lincoln*
Mason
Pacific*
Pend Oreille
Skamania
Stevens
Wahkiakum
Walla Walla

* - No change in count. Not exactly surprising for these populations - Pacific County is the most with just under 10,000 votes.

[Alcon]

Have you ever actually lived in Washington state?

I live in it right now.

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Absolutely.

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No.

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Of Cook County? I really don't care about Illinois politics of yesteryear.

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You make nice statements like this without supporting them while insulting me. That seems to be your debating style.

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I can't wait to scroll down to find out why!

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That's very interesting! And certainly not what the polls I've seen on TV say! KOMO, our local ABC affiliate, had a poll that said 79% of people believe there was no wrong-doing. Then again, as someone who doesn't live in Washington State, you know a lot better than I do.

[Alcon]

Have you ever actually lived in Washington state?

I live in it right now.

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Absolutely.

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No.

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Of Cook County? I really don't care about Illinois politics of yesteryear.

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You make nice statements like this without supporting them while insulting me. That seems to be your debating style.

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I can't wait to scroll down to find out why!

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That's very interesting! And certainly not what the polls I've seen on TV say! KOMO, our local ABC affiliate, had a poll that said 79% of people believe there was no wrong-doing. Then again, as someone who doesn't live in Washington State, you know a lot better than I do.

Oh, and BTW, the 'found' votes have increased to 595 at this point in time.

If  Logan needs to, I'm sure he can 'find' even more.

Well, that's fine. Care to address my points?

[Alcon]

Well, lets address every one of you 'so-called' points.


You said (in response to my question of whether you have ever lived in Washington state):

I live in it right now.

I reply:

You say you live in Washington state (today).

Well, you have changed your avatar (both state and party) several times.

Will you still be 'living' in Washington state tomorrow?

I've never not lived in Washington State. I have a South Dakota avatar (now Democratic because it is confusing people, which I didn't intend) because I live in South Dakota much of the year. You, on the other hand, have no avatar. I have more of them, so I win.

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You are the first person I know to actually take that sort of response seriously and then attack it.

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I've never denied that voter fraud occurs. In every election, heck. But I don't think it was rampant in this election - I have seen little proof that it aws.

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Yes, I am, in fact, Dean Logan. How in the world did you know? I was referring to your repeated assertions that I am incapable of understanding facts and whatnot. However, as Dean Logan, I am thoroughly offended at these accusations.

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I have to disagree, as a resident who sees the reaction around me. Many people just want this to end, and there isn't much viciousness as to who wins.

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Do you actually have any proof he has done anything wrong? Can you really tell me that you would not be screaming that the votes must be counted and the Democrats are trying to stop that if this was, say, in Benton County? I would love to agree with you if you offered more proof beyond "ballots are being found!" This has happened in other counties, too. Why are you not offended by that? Why does it not bother you that Grays Harbor County duplicated precinct results?

[Alcon]

I really love your statements, they're so absurd.

Let me see. 

P1.  "I've never not lived in Washington State."

P2.  "I have a South Dakota avatar because I live in South Dakota much of the year."

Aside from a linguistic critique, i.e. it would be proper to make a simple positive statement such as 'I've always lived in Washington state,' than to produce a double negative (never not), it also seems to me that the two statements are (under set theory) logically inconsistent,  You have either always lived in Washington state (no need to capitalize the 's' in state, or you have lived both in South Dakota and Washington.

I have a home in South Dakota but still technically live in Washington State. Phrased badly.

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No, it does not have to be rampant. If this was voter fraud, I would consider it rampant. By minor voter fraud I mean things like someone else filling out someone's absentee ballot. Normally this would not cause much concern, but in this election, it does matter.

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Haha, no, I wasn't. Again, I wasn't really offended. I just wonder why you feel the need to criticize me and never say anything positive whatsoever. You have been nasty to me since the first post. You seem to take this a lot more personally than you should - it's just politics.

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Actually, I am considering him innocent until proven guilty. Of course, despite little evidence other than him finding ballots in the county, you have not provided much evidence.

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If he did it, and it can be proven, he should go to jail. End of story. Accuse me away, but if someone does a crime, they should go to jail accordingly. I do not want any outcome that does not actually represent the voting.

Could I make a small request: that we not trade personal attacks? I absolutely hate doing that, and am not very good at it. I may be wrong sometimes, but I do not think I was always right. My attempts to bring levity have resulted in you snapping at me. And there is no need to accuse me of supporting voter fraud. Just give me the benefit of the doubt.

[Alcon]

Let me see.

Gregoire loses the first vote. 

Votes NOT found.

It was a machine count. And maybe votes WERE found then. That wouldn't be a big deal.

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I think we can safely say that they were found without quotations - these are real votes, one would assume, considering that they released a list of whose votes they were (I have to wonder how they knew, but whatever). It was still terribly irresponsible.

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Gregoire still would probably have gone on to win without those, but yes.

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I somehow doubt it. Then again, Kitsap, which was close, gave Rossi a big boost.

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Uh, have you been entirely ignoring my posts? I'm personally calling for an investigation into why this happened statewide. What part of that screams that I'm not suspicious to you?

[Alcon]

The Democrats will "find" enough votes to win.  I applaud them for it. 

I also applaud them for managing to convince enough idiot voters in Washington State that they're not cheating.

I mean, really, Republicans are just not very good at cheating or stealing elections.  When they steal elections, they win by way too many votes for it to be rational discerned that they stole the election. 

They really need to start "finding votes" when these margins get closer, so they can start claiming that "every vote needs to be counted."

Maybe then, and only then, they'll start winning the dumb voters.

These votes need to be independently verified. If they are real votes, which I assume at least some of them are, they need to be counted. Does this not make sense?

[Alcon]

but wait, isn't Washington a Democratic State, why is a Republican winning?

Its almost as asinine as Conrad getting re-elected in 2006.

Rossi, despite being fairly conservative, ran as a moderate. Actually, he ran as a nice guy. Gregoire decided to be as icy and arrogant as possible.

In most other states, Gregoire would have lost in a landslide. However, if Gregoire had done a better job at pointing out that Rossi is actually a lot more conservative than he pretends to be, she would have won significantly.

[Alcon]

I think the votes should be checked before they are counted, but not left uncounted. They have been found and if they are OK, I don't see what the issue is. I see the validity in the "check them" argument, but not the "throw 'em out" one.

[Alcon]

No. They should be counted the first time.

Do you honestly think I care who you elect as Governor of a state I'll probably never live in?

You care enough to provide a stupid argument.

[Alcon]

You have managed to twist what that says in wonderful ways, Carl. Volunteers found 162 votes because those idiots put them under papers or something of that sort.

There needs to be an investigation but until I see solid proof of fraud I will not pass judgement. That is only fair.

[Alcon]

You have managed to twist what that says in wonderful ways, Carl. Volunteers found 162 votes because those idiots put them under papers or something of that sort.

There needs to be an investigation but until I see solid proof of fraud I will not pass judgement. That is only fair.

So, no matter no matter how many ballots Logan 'finds;' no matter how long after the election. we must presume that they are legitimate because Logan says so.

This is at least the fourth group of ballots Logan has 'found' since the original count.

More than a month since the election and Logal is still 'finding' ballots!?!

You have an amazing talent for reading what you want to read or assume based on your prejudices. Do you actually take the time to read what I am saying or just graze over it and give one of your generic replies?

I said that I demand an independent investigation. How in the world could anyone sanely misinterpret that statement as "we need to take his word for it"?

Come on, man. And you say that I can't read.

Jimmy Hoffa and the Ukraine are in on this too? You have an odd little fantasy world where unattached concepts float around in your mind like counting sheep, dancing and weaving together into some sort of odd plot that I can't quite grasp. Now, explain to me what Ukraine and Jimmy Hoffa have to do with our recount.

[Alcon]

First, I will allow the dumb animals to 'graze' on the fodder you post.

Second, lets see if YOU understand just how many times, how many votes, and how late AFTER the election Dean Logan has 'found' votes.

Please post the date and number of votes 'found.'  Hint, since the election he has 'found' votes at four times (as of this posting).  He may YET find more votes, if he thinks Gregoire needs them.

Third, if Logan is so good at finding things we should hire him to 'find' other things (such as Jimmy Hoffa, Judge Crater, etc.).  If YOU REALLY believe Logan is so adept at 'finding' things, lets hire him to find other things (such as my list).

Fourth, after the fraudulent election in the Ukraine earlier this year, they at least are holding a new election (they recognize the ballots in the original elections have been compromised).  In Washington state, the Secretary of State has urged a new election as the current results are seriously tainted by Logan 'finding' votes for Gregoire over a month AFTER the election.  Does the Ukraine have a better sense of fairness than Washington state?  Hmm.

Uh, you really are pulling a lot of things after thin air, aren't you? If you actually took the time to read the news reports, you'd know that Sam Reed isn't the current SoS and urged this because of the close margin, not potential fraud.

You're really just repeating the same thing over and over again - Washington State is Ukraine II, Dean Logan is a cheater who should be thrown in jail, etcetra. Do you actually have anything to say? Because, if you do not, there is really no need to continue to reply. It just ends up making you sound like a broken record player of incorrectness.

[Alcon]

The fact that King County contains 30% of my state's population makes it somewhat unsurprising that more errors occur.

[Alcon]

CARLHAYDEN, it is obvious that it is much easier for an organization to handle 2,000 votes like in a small county than the number in King County. Or do you dispute something as obvious as this?

Also, why do you feel the need to personally attack anything that moves? I would suggest that you act more maturely if you want to get any measure of respect in your opinions.

[Alcon]

CARLHAYDEN, it is obvious that it is much easier for an organization to handle 2,000 votes like in a small county than the number in King County. Or do you dispute something as obvious as this?

Also, why do you feel the need to personally attack anything that moves? I would suggest that you act more maturely if you want to get any measure of respect in your opinions.

Well, at least you're consistent (consistently wrong).

First, it is NOT obvious what you claim.  The large counties such as King county have people employed whose primary job is to deal with elections whereas the small counties have people who deal with a number of different matters, including elections.  I'm sorry you are ignorant of this and make unfounded assumptions.

Second, you seem to be unable to deal with specific matters and when your unfounded assumptions and mistatements of fact (not to mention illogical assertions) are rejected, you take it personally. 

Grow up!

I am very glad that you are sorry for my ignorance. I never knew that the technology of robots has evolved this far already.

You are the one, my friend, who is wrong. In Washington, every county has a county auditor who handles the elections. Everyone else is a mix of volunteers and staff from the auditor's office. King County has more volunteers.

I know this because I have seen the process in Pend Oreille County, Clallam County, Asotin County, and Pierce County. They are very different.

I do not so much take it personally as when you provide lovely quotes such as these:

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Of course, these are not personal attacks, but rather your keen personal observations about the irrelevant personality flaws in others. Thank God, Mr. Hayden, there is someone out there to graciously tell us we are stupid so we can start on the track to rehabilitation! Now I wonder why none of your fellow GOPers are coming into defend you?

And now you tell me to grow up? Why don't YOU grow up, poopyhead? (This is sarcasm - it's what us carbon-based lifeforms use as a weak form of humor.)

[Alcon]

You said:

 In Washington, every county has a county auditor who handles the elections. Everyone else is a mix of volunteers and staff from the auditor's office. King County has more volunteers.

I reply:

You really should take the time to look at the structure of the King County government.

Ask Cheryle A. Broom if she is in charge of elections in King county?

Would you further explain yourself?

[Alcon]

CARLHAYDEN, it is obvious that it is much easier for an organization to handle 2,000 votes like in a small county than the number in King County. Or do you dispute something as obvious as this?

Also, why do you feel the need to personally attack anything that moves? I would suggest that you act more maturely if you want to get any measure of respect in your opinions.

Well, at least you're consistent (consistently wrong).

First, it is NOT obvious what you claim.  The large counties such as King county have people employed whose primary job is to deal with elections whereas the small counties have people who deal with a number of different matters, including elections.  I'm sorry you are ignorant of this and make unfounded assumptions.

Second, you seem to be unable to deal with specific matters and when your unfounded assumptions and mistatements of fact (not to mention illogical assertions) are rejected, you take it personally. 

Grow up!

I am very glad that you are sorry for my ignorance. I never knew that the technology of robots has evolved this far already.

You are the one, my friend, who is wrong. In Washington, every county has a county auditor who handles the elections. Everyone else is a mix of volunteers and staff from the auditor's office. King County has more volunteers.

I know this because I have seen the process in Pend Oreille County, Clallam County, Asotin County, and Pierce County. They are very different.

I do not so much take it personally as when you provide lovely quotes such as these:

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Of course, these are not personal attacks, but rather your keen personal observations about the irrelevant personality flaws in others. Thank God, Mr. Hayden, there is someone out there to graciously tell us we are stupid so we can start on the track to rehabilitation! Now I wonder why none of your fellow GOPers are coming into defend you?

And now you tell me to grow up? Why don't YOU grow up, poopyhead? (This is sarcasm - it's what us carbon-based lifeforms use as a weak form of humor.)

Oh, and a brief quote from the Washington Secretary of State website:

In the State of Washington, elections are administered at the local level by County Auditors (except King County, which has a Department of Records and Elections). These offices are available to help you with registering to vote, requesting an absentee ballot, and other elections-related services

Yes, it does have an individual department. But no matter how many people are handling something, the bigger it is, the harder it is. This is why the U.S. government is so screwed up - it's so big.

[Alcon]

CARLHAYDEN, it is obvious that it is much easier for an organization to handle 2,000 votes like in a small county than the number in King County. Or do you dispute something as obvious as this?

Also, why do you feel the need to personally attack anything that moves? I would suggest that you act more maturely if you want to get any measure of respect in your opinions.

Well, at least you're consistent (consistently wrong).

First, it is NOT obvious what you claim.  The large counties such as King county have people employed whose primary job is to deal with elections whereas the small counties have people who deal with a number of different matters, including elections.  I'm sorry you are ignorant of this and make unfounded assumptions.

Second, you seem to be unable to deal with specific matters and when your unfounded assumptions and mistatements of fact (not to mention illogical assertions) are rejected, you take it personally. 

Grow up!

I am very glad that you are sorry for my ignorance. I never knew that the technology of robots has evolved this far already.

You are the one, my friend, who is wrong. In Washington, every county has a county auditor who handles the elections. Everyone else is a mix of volunteers and staff from the auditor's office. King County has more volunteers.

I know this because I have seen the process in Pend Oreille County, Clallam County, Asotin County, and Pierce County. They are very different.

I do not so much take it personally as when you provide lovely quotes such as these:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Of course, these are not personal attacks, but rather your keen personal observations about the irrelevant personality flaws in others. Thank God, Mr. Hayden, there is someone out there to graciously tell us we are stupid so we can start on the track to rehabilitation! Now I wonder why none of your fellow GOPers are coming into defend you?

And now you tell me to grow up? Why don't YOU grow up, poopyhead? (This is sarcasm - it's what us carbon-based lifeforms use as a weak form of humor.)

Oh, and a brief quote from the Washington Secretary of State website:

In the State of Washington, elections are administered at the local level by County Auditors (except King County, which has a Department of Records and Elections). These offices are available to help you with registering to vote, requesting an absentee ballot, and other elections-related services

Yes, it does have an individual department. But no matter how many people are handling something, the bigger it is, the harder it is. This is why the U.S. government is so screwed up - it's so big.

Once Logan posts the results of the 'votes' he 'found' for Gregoire, I hope to be posting a detailed analysis.

In the meantime, I suggest you look at the results from two counties with respect to your belief there is a correlation between the size of the county and or number of votes cast in a county and the efficenty of the vote counting operation in such county:

Hint, compare Thurston county (population 110,942) and Adams county (population 16,602) and which had a better match between initial count for govenor and manual recount?

Good point.

I could, but I know Adams added more. Then again, Adams reported more. However, that doesn't really surprise me. Some counties simply have crap organization. King County is one of them, and so is Adams.

People need to be fired. End of story.

[Alcon]

Fact: Dean Logan claims to have 'found' votes on at least four seperate occasions, some of them weeks after the election.

Conclusion

1. Logan is an incompetent, and should be fired.

2. Logan is corrupt, and should be fired!

3. Logan is corrupt, but he 'finds' vote for the candidate you prefer and should keep up his work of 'finding' votes for preferred candidates in the future.

1. Yes. Yes.
2. Maybe. Yes.
3. Maybe.

[Alcon]

I don't see any source on that other than that it was "counted for Gregoire." How exactly would they know this?

Still, that sure is weird.

Whoever wins this will not be a legitimate governor to anyone. We didn't choose a governor - we chose a tie. And we got one.

[Alcon]

As I have previously stated, we need a REAL investigation.

I don't KNOW that the allegation made is true, but it sure sounds like something Dean would pull.

We're still waiting for the vote total from King county which were supposed to have been made available yesterday afternoon.

It will be interesting to see if Dean 'finds' any more ballots for Gregoire.

Why would it matter if he did?