Obama asks for 1967 border as 'basis' for peace between Israel and Palestine

[phk]

The foundation of Israel was immoral to begin with, since they took land that wasn't theirs.

No it wasn't, that was a long time ago!!!

I support Israel's right to exist.

Well tbh, it hadn't been Arab ruled for centuries.

If the Ottomans had turned the area into a total Jewish millet, similar to Lebanon for Maronites, problems would be slightly mitigated however.

[GMantis]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

1 Cor 12:13 "For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink"

Acts 2:5-12 "5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken. 7 Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language? 9 Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11 (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!” 12 Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, “What does this mean?”

That is simply saying that within the church (those filled with the Holy Spirit), nationalism doesn’t matter, the spirit is available to both Jews and Gentiles who believe.

But that has nothing to do with those outside of the church – the nation of Israel (the Jewish non-believers) is still the time keeper of the earth.  The individual non-believing Jews are not saved, but right before Christ returns, when Israel is on the brink of extinction,  many (if it all) non-believing Jews who are still alive will have their spiritual eyes opened and will turn to Jesus and Christ will save them through belief in him, just as he saved the church through faith.  And after the wrath of God is poured out on the world, Christ will establish these newly minted Christian Jews within the promised land and all the nonbelieving nations will then know that God loves his chosen Israel and God will fulfill all the promises to Israel in the sight of all of her enemies.  And Jesus will reign as King of Israel and sit on the throne of David.

So basically only a small percentage (144, 000 of 13 million) Jews will be saved? And this is supposed to be an all benevolent God keeping his promise?

[Paul Kemp]

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/05/andrews-stands-by-remark-that-obama-is-tilting-towards-hamas.php

Nice Rob, nice.

[Sbane]

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/05/andrews-stands-by-remark-that-obama-is-tilting-towards-hamas.php

Nice Rob, nice.

I love how he says the US being balanced is a bad thing. It just blows my mind.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

If the Ottomans had turned the area into a total Jewish millet, similar to Lebanon for Maronites, problems would be slightly mitigated however.

Doubtful.  The whole reason for what happened in 19th century Lebanon was Great Power politics between France and Britain for their share of the decaying Ottoman Empire.  Also the partition served to accentuate the problems between the Christian and Druze communities.  Still, things might have been resolved peaceably in the end had France not carved out a Greater Lebanon out of its Syria mandate.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

I love how he says the US being balanced is a bad thing. It just blows my mind.

you do realize, don't you, that Hamas and PA don't believe Israel has a right to even exist as a Jewish state?  That's like me saying I dont believe Nigeria has the right to exist as a black nation.  So, if we were "balanced" in any way, we would tell Hamas and the PA to go jump in lake, and dont even think about picking up the phone and calling us until they recognize Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state.

[Sbane]

We are working with Abbas. Oh, also, Democracy has consequences.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

We are working with Abbas.

...who has rejected Israel's right to exist as a Jewish entity.   so, what is your point?

---

Oh, also, Democracy has consequences.

...that doesnt make Democracy the end-all-be-all

[Sbane]

We are working with Abbas.

...who has rejected Israel's right to exist as a Jewish entity.   so, what is your point?

---

Oh, also, Democracy has consequences.

...that doesnt make Democracy the end-all-be-all

Our foreign policy certainly loves itself some Democracy....

I think Obama has made it clear where we stand. Abbas isn't going to get everything it wants. Neither will Israel. Of course it could also destabilize things.....

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

We are working with Abbas.

...who has rejected Israel's right to exist as a Jewish entity.   so, what is your point?

---

Oh, also, Democracy has consequences.

...that doesnt make Democracy the end-all-be-all

Our foreign policy certainly loves itself some Democracy....

I think Obama has made it clear where we stand. Abbas isn't going to get everything it wants. Neither will Israel. Of course it could also destabilize things.....

our foreign policy has forgotten that democracy is suppose to be a means to secure the goal of unalienable rights...democracy itself was never the final goal

[Sbane]

We are working with Abbas.

...who has rejected Israel's right to exist as a Jewish entity.   so, what is your point?

---

Oh, also, Democracy has consequences.

...that doesnt make Democracy the end-all-be-all

Our foreign policy certainly loves itself some Democracy....

I think Obama has made it clear where we stand. Abbas isn't going to get everything it wants. Neither will Israel. Of course it could also destabilize things.....

our foreign policy has forgotten that democracy is suppose to be a means to secure the goal of unalienable rights...democracy itself was never the final goal

Yeah but our democracy failed at that for like 200 years. I think we can cut the Egyptians a little slack.

Seriously, you want to deny gays the right to marry and you have the balls to imply we should take away Egyptians rights to vote? Are you kidding me?

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Seriously, you want to deny gays the right to marry and you have the balls to imply we should take away Egyptians rights to vote? Are you kidding me?

no, I am not kidding you, you are simply mispresenting my views, for I have NEVER stated that I wanted to make it illegal for gays to marry.  they can marry all they want, even within churches that will allow it.  why would I care, that they're business?  they can marry whom they want and do anything they want behind closed doors.  but I will not agree to condone it by having my state government (which is a projection of the people, which includes me) condone it.

that's a tad different than Sharia Law

[Sbane]

Seriously, you want to deny gays the right to marry and you have the balls to imply we should take away Egyptians rights to vote? Are you kidding me?

no, I am not kidding you, you are simply mispresenting my views, for I have NEVER stated that I wanted to make it illegal for gays to marry.  they can marry all they want, even within churches that will allow it.  why would I care, that they're business?  they can marry whom they want and do anything they want behind closed doors.  but I will not agree to condone it by having my state government (which is a projection of the people, which includes me) condone it.

that's a tad different than Sharia Law

Yeah, a little bit of discrimination is ok. Not too much though!!

[phk]

Seriously, you want to deny gays the right to marry and you have the balls to imply we should take away Egyptians rights to vote? Are you kidding me?

no, I am not kidding you, you are simply mispresenting my views, for I have NEVER stated that I wanted to make it illegal for gays to marry.  they can marry all they want, even within churches that will allow it.  why would I care, that they're business?  they can marry whom they want and do anything they want behind closed doors.  but I will not agree to condone it by having my state government (which is a projection of the people, which includes me) condone it.

that's a tad different than Sharia Law

Yeah, a little bit of discrimination is ok. Not too much though!!

This I don't get.

Why do liberals support the Palestinians when the Israelis are more pro-gay and pro-choice.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Yeah, a little bit of discrimination is ok. Not too much though!!

how it is discrimination?  they're free to do what they want and marry openly in public.  but the reason a state condones something is because the people of that state believe it is beneficial to society.  I dont believe it is beneficial, but that doesnt mean I believe it should be outlawed or criminalized.

it's their business, just dont drag me into it, because I dont give my consent without my approval.  so, if you ask for my stamp of approval, then expect to be handed my opinion...if you dont want my opinion, then dont ask for my approval.  simple

that a tad different than Sharia Law, which will give you its opinion at the edge of sword, whether you want it or not

[Liberté]

Why do liberals support the Palestinians when the Israelis are more pro-gay and pro-choice.

I've seen this question before, and it always struck me as facetious, though mind that I'm not a liberal. It can be turned around quite simply: why do Christian conservatives support the Israelis when the Palestinians are fighting for their traditional homeland and way of life?

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

This I don't get.

Why do liberals support the Palestinians when the Israelis are more pro-gay and pro-choice.

well, that's simple to answer:  because they hate biblical Christianity so much that they are willing to be killed by Sharia Law than to be preached to by Christians.  That's why the press has embraced Islam in this country while at the same time mocking Christianity.

[phk]

Why do liberals support the Palestinians when the Israelis are more pro-gay and pro-choice.

I've seen this question before, and it always struck me as facetious, though mind that I'm not a liberal. It can be turned around quite simply: why do Christian conservatives support the Israelis when the Palestinians are fighting for their traditional homeland and way of life?

Yes. But Christian conservatives are more likely to believe in Israeli dispensationalism. So that is a clear cut answer.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

why do Christian conservatives support the Israelis when the Palestinians are fighting for their traditional homeland and way of life?

again, simple to answer:  because Muslims dont believe in the freedom of religion and Israel does.

[danny]

Why do liberals support the Palestinians when the Israelis are more pro-gay and pro-choice.

I've seen this question before, and it always struck me as facetious, though mind that I'm not a liberal. It can be turned around quite simply: why do Christian conservatives support the Israelis when the Palestinians are fighting for their traditional homeland and way of life?

I'm not Christian so they can correct me if I'm wrong here but I would imagine that they see Jews as doing exactly what you attributed to Palestinians.

[Liberté]

Why do liberals support the Palestinians when the Israelis are more pro-gay and pro-choice.

I've seen this question before, and it always struck me as facetious, though mind that I'm not a liberal. It can be turned around quite simply: why do Christian conservatives support the Israelis when the Palestinians are fighting for their traditional homeland and way of life?

I'm not Christian so they can correct me if I'm wrong here but I would imagine that they see Jews as doing exactly what you attributed to Palestinians.

You have been there since the mid-nineteenth century at the earliest and had fully assimilated Western liberalism upon your arrival. The Palestinians are a deeply conservative culture with a heritage spanning centuries. And, no, I do not consider your former residence there in ye olden times to count; the Palestinians were not merely squatters on 'your' property.

[2952-0-0]

our foreign policy has forgotten that democracy is suppose to be a means to secure the goal of unalienable rights...democracy itself was never the final goal

Do you actually believe this crap? You'll get a lot more respect and seen as honest if you simply state "I believe our foreign policy should serve our national interests" or something to that extent. Appealing to "democracy" or "unalienable rights" is like being a used car salesman urging people to buy lemons.

[Sbane]

Seriously, you want to deny gays the right to marry and you have the balls to imply we should take away Egyptians rights to vote? Are you kidding me?

no, I am not kidding you, you are simply mispresenting my views, for I have NEVER stated that I wanted to make it illegal for gays to marry.  they can marry all they want, even within churches that will allow it.  why would I care, that they're business?  they can marry whom they want and do anything they want behind closed doors.  but I will not agree to condone it by having my state government (which is a projection of the people, which includes me) condone it.

that's a tad different than Sharia Law

Yeah, a little bit of discrimination is ok. Not too much though!!

This I don't get.

Why do liberals support the Palestinians when the Israelis are more pro-gay and pro-choice.

I think there should be a Palestinian state. What does that have to do with being pro-gay or pro-choice? Yes, obviously Israel is going to be more liberal on these issues and much closer to my views, but that does not mean Palestinians should be subjugated and not given a voice.

Similarly I think the Egyptian people should be able to vote, even if they make a couple of stupid decisions (and they might have to face the consequences of those decisions). Democracy isn't perfect but it's preferable to any other system of government.

[Sbane]

This I don't get.

Why do liberals support the Palestinians when the Israelis are more pro-gay and pro-choice.

well, that's simple to answer:  because they hate biblical Christianity so much that they are willing to be killed by Sharia Law than to be preached to by Christians.  That's why the press has embraced Islam in this country while at the same time mocking Christianity.

See here's the thing, I don't fear sharia law one bit living here in the United States. Why do you?

And I am not saying that I am apathetic about sharia law. I would vehemently oppose it's implementation here (in regards to religious tolerance, jijya etc.), but it's just so ludicrous to even think about....

[danny]

You have been there since the mid-nineteenth century at the earliest and had fully assimilated Western liberalism upon your arrival.

I have been in Israel since the day I was born (which, admittedly is much later than the mid-nineteenth century).

And, no, I do not consider your former residence there in ye olden times to count; the Palestinians were not merely squatters on 'your' property.

You don't, but I was referring to christian conservatives who think otherwise. clearly you have your own ideas about how long you should go back when deciding who "owns" the land, which is somewhere between when the Jews were kicked out of Israel and sometime in the 19th century when the Jews started coming back (although, technically there were always some Jews in the land, just very few of them).