vermont?

[WalterMitty]

what happened in vermont?  the (national) republican party just isnt competitive there anymore.  that is quite a change from 50 years ago.

i do realize the republicans have become more conservative.  but that is a simplistic answer.  dont forget, ronald reagan carried vermont twice, and he was certainly very conservative.

so what is the deal with vermont?

[Cashcow]

The northern three states of New England contain the most independent thinkers in the world. There's really no telling what's going to happen, but Vemont does seem like a pretty liberal place.

[Sam Spade]

what happened in vermont?  the (national) republican party just isnt competitive there anymore.  that is quite a change from 50 years ago.

i do realize the republicans have become more conservative.  but that is a simplistic answer.  dont forget, ronald reagan carried vermont twice, and he was certainly very conservative.

so what is the deal with vermont?

Vermont is essentially socialist now, an extension of NYC.

New Hampshire is the only conservative state in New England, fiscally conservative, not socially.

Maine is just an odd place.

Republicans can still win New Hampshire with less socially conservative candidates or maverick candidates. 

Maine would be within reach for an environmental liberal (among Republicans) more than anything else.

[WalterMitty]

have the demographics of vermont changed a great deal in the last 20 years?

[Sam Spade]

have the demographics of vermont changed a great deal in the last 20 years?

The key influx of people is white environmentalists from NYC who want a pristine home so they can go back to nature.

Vermont is still white as ever and as rural as ever, but the opposite of New Hampshire in terms of economics.

[True Democrat]

Vermont has had a big influx of liberals.  Just look at Nixon's numbers in 1972 to Reagan's in 1984.  Dukakis barely lost it.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

this is proof that comparing states to the national average does mean something.

Reagan won Vermont both times, but both times below his national average. Vermont was trending Democratic, but it wasn't until the Democrats ran a candidate who nationwide (Clinton) that they could finally break it once and for all. Now Vermont is beyond safe Dem.

[WalterMitty]

brtd, reagan still won vermont by 17 points and carried every county.

[Erc]

Vermont has been trending steadily Democrat since 1892, if not before.

Vermont was ridiculously republican up until 1912 or so [even voting for Taft], extremely Republican from 1916 to 1960.

In 1964, Goldwater did worse than his national average...but that was a fluke election by all accounts.  Even so, the Republicans never really did recover.  Their last bright spot was the very respectable +6.8 in 1976...and it's been a Democrat state since.  In 1980 probably because of Anderson...it was essentially dead even in 1984...and then fell off from there.  2000 saw a major recovery for the Republicans--mainly caused, however, by the dropoff of Perot (who got 12% in 1996), and the addition of Nader (who got nearly 7%).  2004 saw a dramatic improvement for the Democrats, who established a level of superiority in the state unseen since Ike's 1956 victory.

As to why?  Combination of factors, including the general switch of the NE to liberal--plus the gradual invasion of MA / NY folks.

[phk]

If they quit bashing Massachusettes, Republicans would do much better in the Northeast. Same goes for Democrats and the South.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

If they quit bashing Massachusettes, Republicans would do much better in the Northeast. Same goes for Democrats and the South.

I don't think that has that much of an effect. But yes, the Republicans did spend a lot of time bashing first Vermont and then Masschusetts this election. All this talk about how MA doesn't have their values.

MA has the lowest divorce rate.
VT has the lowest teen pregancy rate.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Vermont is only 3rd lowest here.
Anyways, see a pattern?

[minionofmidas]

MA doesn't have their values.

MA has the lowest divorce rate.
VT has the lowest teen pregancy rate.

These are not Republican values.

[WalterMitty]

two points:

1.  i didnt want this thread to devolve into discussions on teen pregnancy rates, or any of the other blue states are better than red states (or vice versa) nonsense.

2.  jfern, the states with the highest teen pregnancy rates also have a higher percentage of people living in poverty and a higher percentage of minorities.  you, as a democrat, should be sensitive to those socio-economic variables.

now let's talk about vermont, and why it has changed.

[zachman]

NH has the lowest teen pregnancy rate in the nation!

Anyways Vermont is more or less an arts colony.

I think the political reasons have to do with the Dean dynasty in the 90's, and the social activism of Ben & Jerry's.

[Erc]

...hence the concern of red-staters with social issues...since it actually affects them more.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

...hence the concern of red-staters with social issues...since it actually affects them more.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[??????????]

A guy I work with (he's black)was in the army about 84-85 and told me a story about his first day in boot camp. He met a guy from Vermont and the guy was just staring him and his friends down. When they asked him what his problem was, he said, and I quote, "I've never seen a black person before in real life." That was the funniest story I've ever heard.

[A18]

...hence the concern of red-staters with social issues...since it actually affects them more.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Um, what are we ing laughing at?

[phk]

at rednecks dumbass

[King]

Vermont is only 3rd lowest here.
Anyways, see a pattern?

Of course, with the exception of Californian girls, everybody in blue states are white women. Who wants a white woman? Not me!!!

[A18]

I'll take one...

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Vermont is only 3rd lowest here.
Anyways, see a pattern?

Of course, with the exception of Californian girls, everybody in blue states are white women. Who wants a white woman? Not me!!!

New York and others have lots of minorities.

[Gabu]

at rednecks dumbass

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[King]

at rednecks dumbass

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!