Atlasia can do better ~ Marokai Blue for Senate

[Marokai Backbeat]

I'm not really interested in this attacking back and forth at the moment, but I just want to say that:

1. The stuff I'm proposing is stuff I've been fighting for for months, right down to the idea of allowing regions to change their senate election procedure which is rooted in an idea I proposed in the Senate over a year and ahalf ago. (Was Napoleon even registered, then?)

2. My whole "I'm a reformer, these are my ideas, I don't care about ideology thing" is rooted back to when I ran for Vice President before June of last year.

3. Does no one actually read my posts unless I include bitchy back and forths in them? I've literally been talking about this sort of stuff fo'-ever and it's kind of hilarious anyone would accuse me of ripping off anyone else considering that there is a record of my statements, and the fact that I gave Bacon King a ton of platform ideas when he ran for president in Feb. 2010, then gave Fritz a bunch of platform ideas in October 2010, and then in the race in February of this year, Oakvale and Tmth were basically "Hey we're also sorta like him but we're really nice, too!"

So yeah, when you vote for me, I'm pretty sure you get the real and original thing. Let's move on and actually deal with a campaign as you're properly supposed to.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I proposed in the Senate over a year and ahalf ago. (Was Napoleon even registered, then?)

Ah, classy, first you claim to be so friendly toward newer members, and then you're going that low

[Rowan]

Welcome!

[Marokai Backbeat]

I proposed in the Senate over a year and ahalf ago. (Was Napoleon even registered, then?)

Ah, classy, first you claim to be so friendly toward newer members, and then you're going that low

I've been fighting for these things for a very long time, and I was pointing that out. If someone accuses me of being a rip-off (it's still hilarious, anyone who knows anything about me or Atlasian history knows that is categorically untrue) I'll point out my body of work, that's all.

Napoleon knows I have the greatest of respect for him and all his work in the NE. I've defended new players all the time and have tons of love for new lefties especially. This isn't a serious campaign issue except for people who will criticize me for literally anything I say.

Welcome!

Thanks, my friend.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     I've been talking about giving regions more power over the amendment process by moving to a more American-esque system for a long time. Imagine how much more important Governorships would become if we could simply decline to open voting booths, or on the other hand open booths to vote on amendments that had been proposed years ago.

[Marokai Backbeat]

     I've been talking about giving regions more power over the amendment process by moving to a more American-esque system for a long time. Imagine how much more important Governorships would become if we could simply decline to open voting booths, or on the other hand open booths to vote on amendments that had been proposed years ago.

Yep! Either that, or at least giving the regional legislature the power to ratify things on their own, or determine their own ratification procedure. (They do it themselves, the governor has total say, it's just a regional referendum, but at who's discretion? It could be interesting, as long as it's stipulated that it remain a fair majority vote instead of moving around the goalposts, I could be all for these ideas.)

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

Would you support adding the position of Regional Senator to the Regional government, in so that in the event of an emergency (such as an AWOL governor) the Senator could act as agent to get the government moving again?

[bgwah]

     I've been talking about giving regions more power over the amendment process by moving to a more American-esque system for a long time. Imagine how much more important Governorships would become if we could simply decline to open voting booths, or on the other hand open booths to vote on amendments that had been proposed years ago.

Who says the regions don't already have that power? During my time as AG and doing some Wiki work (the Constitution was horribly out of date), I discovered an amendment that had passed 3 regions and failed 1 about a year earlier... The 5th region (Midwest IIRC) never voted on it.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     I've been talking about giving regions more power over the amendment process by moving to a more American-esque system for a long time. Imagine how much more important Governorships would become if we could simply decline to open voting booths, or on the other hand open booths to vote on amendments that had been proposed years ago.

Who says the regions don't already have that power? During my time as AG and doing some Wiki work (the Constitution was horribly out of date), I discovered an amendment that had passed 3 regions and failed 1 about a year earlier... The 5th region (Midwest IIRC) never voted on it.

     I am most intrigued by this discovery. My thanks for bringing it to light.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Would you support adding the position of Regional Senator to the Regional government, in so that in the event of an emergency (such as an AWOL governor) the Senator could act as agent to get the government moving again?

An interesting idea I hadn't thought of before. I'm certainly willing to entertain proposals that would make that work, though. (Considering the dual office holding laws and such.)

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

The Senator wouldn't take over any position such as Governor, but rather would be authorized to act on his behalf when he is unavailable to perform certain acts.

[Bacon King]

The Southeast has had that on the books for years now, actually.

I remember once back in the day, Sam Spade (as regional Senator) had to open a voting booth when nobody else in the regional government did. Don't know if it's even been used besides that, though. 

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Also, the SoFE is permitted to administer regional election booths in the IDS, per the Federal Election Agent Act.

[Marokai Backbeat]

    Also, the SoFE is permitted to administer regional election booths in the IDS, per the Federal Election Agent Act.

Though that's probably legal in every region in some sort of emergency legal hopscotch, really.

The Southeast has had that on the books for years now, actually.

I remember once back in the day, Sam Spade (as regional Senator) had to open a voting booth when nobody else in the regional government did. Don't know if it's even been used besides that, though.  

Cheers! After thinking about it I think it's a perfectly reasonable thing to do, since it ties the Regional Senator, even if in some small way, more to staying in touch with the regions they represent, which I like. I would happily support a well written proposal to that effect for every region.

I'm glad my campaign thread thusfar has generated all sorts of brainstorming and consideration of these ideas.

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

    Also, the SoFE is permitted to administer regional election booths in the IDS, per the Federal Election Agent Act.

When I was SoFE this idea nearly started a civil war

[Marokai Backbeat]

• Ways to make the office of Vice President more important or exciting.

The Vice Presidency is an office in desperate need of some sprucing up. As it stands, the position of VP is little more than a political accessory trotted out purely for electoral benefit. I believe the Vice Presidency can be a very useful and important position when inhabited by the right person, but that the moment, that hope that the "right person" gets the job is the only thing that makes the job itself useful.

I believe it's time we entertain new ideas on how to make the Vice Presidency a more important position with greater responsibility and political consequence, or start talking about abolishing it.

It's very easy to pick a candidate purely for political purposes, but this doesn't make our government any better, does it? There are a few approaches we could take to either finally making the position matter, or simply making the Presidential elections more interesting:

1. The most radical option: Giving the Vice Presidency the full powers of a Senator, as opposed to only having legislative responsibilities when there is a tie. This would give the choice of Vice President significant importance when forming a ticket. Sure, picking a very moderate or opposite party member to run with you has electoral benefit, but what happens if they oppose your agenda in office? Suddenly, it's no longer so easy to pick a pretty running mate when you have to actually implement a platform, and this brings an exciting new dynamic to elections and governing that is sorely absent.

2. Make the Vice President the default PPT: Elections for PPT are traditionally held at the beginning of each new session of the Senate, as per the rules. This is usually opened by the VP and it usually stalls the Senate for a few days while the beginning matters are dealt with. Instead, under this proposal, the Vice President is automatically PPT at the beginning of each new Senate session and there is no automatic election for PPT, with an election for PPT only occurring if the Vice President and/or a significant number of Senators want one to occur.

I had opposed this in the past, but when you really think about it, this puts more responsibilities on the Vice Presidency and forces the choice to be a very active one, as he or she would then be in charge of the Senate, unless they specifically said they would decline their responsibilities, and people could judge them on such in an election. I think it's a good idea and deserves consideration.

3. Elect the Vice President separately from the Presidency: I've always been very back-and-forth on this issue. When I first joined Atlasia in late-2008, I simply just supported it because it's what the party I joined also supported. But eventually, I evolved into my own position about it and opposed the idea. In the last year or so, however, I've drifted more back to my original position for the sake of game reform.

Electing the Vice President separate offers more freedom to voters, and makes Presidential elections more interesting by breaking apart the dynamic of super-tickets that get no considerable opposition. It raises the Vice Presidency to higher standards, as people will then judge the position on it's own, and no longer will people be forced to vote for a ticket they have misgivings about, as they could then support the best candidate for each position individually.

It makes the process more democratic, and offers an exciting shake-up for the position of Vice President, perhaps even in conjunction with one of the preceeding proposals, that it certainly isn't used to lately.

• Giving regions more flexibility on ratification procedure.

As previously alluded to in this thread, I have been in favor of changing, or "americanizing", the process of Constitutional Amendment ratification for some time now. I believe regions, through either their regional governments or their Governor's discretion, could then have control of ratification in their respective regions.

Under my proposal, Amendments passed by the Senate would be permanently out in the open, (as opposed to a one-time up or down vote as they are now) and could always be ratified or rejected by regions until either the end of time , or they eventually get ratified by a super-majority of regions. The regional governments themselves could handle the ratification by legislative vote, or the regional governments could decide their own particular way of handling ratification procedure, such as giving the discretion of ratification up to the Governor.

This places far more importance on regional governments and regional positions in general, and allows for the potential of Amendments passed tomorrow to suddenly come back into the national debate a year from now, adding more unpredictability and excitement to the game by way of giving the regions more power over their own procedures.

[Fritz]

The Vice-President already is the default PPT (so to speak), due to a rules amendment that I introduced as a Senator and fought hard to get passed, it nearly failed.  Remember that?  The VP now presides over the Senate, unless and until he confers those duties to the PPT.  Which, due to long-standing tradition, is always done, but it does not have to be.

I also introduced a bill to elect the President and VP seperately.  At the time, no one liked the idea.  I still think its a good idea, though.

[Marokai Backbeat]

The Vice-President already is the default PPT (so to speak), due to a rules amendment that I introduced as a Senator and fought hard to get passed, it nearly failed.  Remember that?  The VP now presides over the Senate, unless and until he confers those duties to the PPT.  Which, due to long-standing tradition, is always done, but it does not have to be.

Sure, I guess more of what I'm saying is that we should break that tradition more than actually draft something to fix it.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Indeed. I remember me arguing against you over it at the time. I've warmed up to it more lately, though. To be honest with you, after rereading my arguments against you from back then on this topic I don't even really understand my reason for the opposition. I seemed to think it was "change for change's sake" but it's actually a significant thing that could really make things more interesting.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I am planning an overhaul of the role of the Vice President - hopefully, you will like them. But they don't as far as giving the VP the rights of a Senator, as I believe that's too much of an Executive/Legislative crossover.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Vice Presidency should be einterly abolished.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Vice Presidency should be einterly abolished.

If there's no way to make it worth something, then I agree with you. But I think we should at least try creative ways to make it more important or more interesting as a function of the game first.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Vice Presidency should be einterly abolished.

If there's no way to make it worth something, then I agree with you. But I think we should at least try creative ways to make it more important or more interesting as a function of the game first.

What about removing the Vice President from legislative functions and instead make him, ex officio, a head of one of the executive departments. For example, one could be elected, designated successor and, at the time, let's say for example, Secretary of Internal Affairs.

[Cincinnatus]

Vice Presidency should be einterly abolished.

If there's no way to make it worth something, then I agree with you. But I think we should at least try creative ways to make it more important or more interesting as a function of the game first.

What about removing the Vice President from legislative functions and instead make him, ex officio, a head of one of the executive departments. For example, one could be elected, designated successor and, at the time, let's say for example, Secretary of Internal Affairs.

As a designated position?  Or he/she is to be elected and then the President appoints the position? 

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Vice Presidency should be einterly abolished.

If there's no way to make it worth something, then I agree with you. But I think we should at least try creative ways to make it more important or more interesting as a function of the game first.

What about removing the Vice President from legislative functions and instead make him, ex officio, a head of one of the executive departments. For example, one could be elected, designated successor and, at the time, let's say for example, Secretary of Internal Affairs.

As a designated position?  Or he/she is to be elected and then the President appoints the position? 

President and Vice President are elected. Then, newly-sworn in President nominates newly-sworn in Vice President to led of the cabinet departments.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Vice Presidency should be einterly abolished.

If there's no way to make it worth something, then I agree with you. But I think we should at least try creative ways to make it more important or more interesting as a function of the game first.

What about removing the Vice President from legislative functions and instead make him, ex officio, a head of one of the executive departments. For example, one could be elected, designated successor and, at the time, let's say for example, Secretary of Internal Affairs.

As a designated position?  Or he/she is to be elected and then the President appoints the position? 

President and Vice President are elected. Then, newly-sworn in President nominates newly-sworn in Vice President to led of the cabinet departments.

Wouldn't that just be de facto abolition of the job anyway, at that point? I mean, let's face it, vacancies in the presidency don't really happen anymore anyway, and if you suddenly strip what little responsibilities that pitiful job still holds onto, just to turn it into a stand-in for other cabinet officials, you may as well just ditch it entirely.

Throughout these discussion of ideas, I seek to add things to the game and it's positions when it can be done intelligently, not remove them. Certainly not as a first option.