The Let’s Make This Official Because... (Vetoed)

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Aye

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

How can I oppose cutting spending on something we don't even do anymore?

Aye.

[HappyWarrior]

Aye

[Rowan]

Sure

[bgwah]

aye

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Aye



Vote on Final Passage of the "Let's Make This Official Because....." Act


Ayes (6): AHDuke99, bgwah, HappyWarrior, Kalwejt, NC Yankee and RowanBrandon
Nay (0):
Abstain (0):

Didn't Vote (4): Antonio, Oakvale, Shua, and Snowguy716

The bill is passed and is presented to the President for his Signature or Veto. 

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

NAY!!!!!!!

When, I ask again, did we stop being involved in these wars? There is NO RECORD of any such action being taken. If we are going to do such now, let's at least have an honest debate about it and not just pretend we are no longer involved.

Further, neither the sponsor nor the administration has answered my question about how we are distributing the aid in Libya and Cote d'Ivorie. Are we to be putting our troops in harms way to accomplish this? Is this aid in any way military?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Aye FTR (I feel like a sh*t for missing this vote)

[Badger]

NAY!!!!!!!

When, I ask again, did we stop being involved in these wars? There is NO RECORD of any such action being taken. If we are going to do such now, let's at least have an honest debate about it and not just pretend we are no longer involved.

HOLY $H%T!!! Did I EVER miss this one during the last week!

Shua is absolutely right! There is NO RECORD WHATSOEVER that Atlasia ever ended involvement in the Iraq or Afghanistan wars. I've pointed this out for close to a year now.

The war goes on, folks. This bill, if signed, means Atlasia has just adopted the Dennis Kucinich platform for both wars---"Total military withdrawl within 90 days".

Foreign policy ramifications---major ones---to follow.

[tmthforu94]

The recent Foreign Policy Review's have all indicated that we are not involved in any involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan. Until this all is settled, I won't sign or veto the bill unless we still don't have this resolved by the 25th.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Hashemite's December 2009 review:

• Afghanistan: Normal, though we are concerned about corruption and a plethora of other issues.
• Iraq: Normal, though we have major concerns about corruption and other issues.

Hashemite's May 2010 review:

• Afghanistan: Normal, though we are concerned about corruption, drugs, women's right and other issues.
• Iraq: Normal, though we have major concerns about corruption and other issues.

Hashemite's December 2010 review:

Never got to the Middle East

My July 2010 review:

• Afghanistan: Normal, though we are concerned about corruption, drugs, women's right and other issues.
• Iraq: Normal, though we have major concerns about corruption and other issues.

In addition, the Atlasia-Iraq Free Trade Act all passed without any discussion regarding our status in those two countries from a military point of view.  The fact that all this passed without anyone questioning our presence there is disconcerting - it also leads me to believe that it was assumed we were out already.
We also have John Ford's wiki page, which notes

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When Joe Republic ran for President in October 2005, he talked about victory in Iraq.
This forces me to conclude that we have actually been there the whole time, but nobody in the last 3-4 years has done anything about it.

[tmthforu94]

So in essence, why don't we amend this bill to pull any remaining troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Isn't there anybody who has already been there the time this bill was passed and remember of it ?

[Kaine for Senate '18]

So in essence, why don't we amend this bill to pull any remaining troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan?

Part of the problem is that we don't have any idea of what the ramifications would be.  Until Badger can better inform us, I don't want to withdraw our troops.

[Oakvale]

Aye, obviously.

[Badger]

This forces me to conclude that we have actually been there the whole time, but nobody in the last 3-4 years has done anything about it.

Bingo.

Until then, I hate to say it, but the experts are hopelessly divided. Just like real life. Some say that there needs to be a military stabilizing force until Iraqi and Afghani domestic forces are strong enough to defend their governments; others say the governments are too corrupt and unpopular to garner domestic support and any further investment in revenue and blood is putting good money (and lives) after bad.

Do you want another Vietnam by staying? Do you want another Al-Queda haven to plan the next chemical or nuclear 9/11 when Afghanistan's government falls?  No easy answer here at all.

[tmthforu94]

I hate vetoing this, because I think the original purpose of it was so strong. I think it's important, especially with success in the regions, that we begin a plan to phase out of Iraq within the coming months/years, as well as develop a set plan for Afghanistan.

We're going into a territory here that has barely been covered in Atlasia, oddly enough. Will certainly be a wake-up call to many Atlasians, who reckoned we were out of both places.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I'm sure we're out of those countries. Some old guy should really help us a bit.

[#CriminalizeSobriety]

The solution may be to dig through the old pages of this board and find if John Ford had an office as Secretary of Defense or if it was mentioned in the White House thread. I can't do this at the moment since I only have a few minutes before work but upon my return tonight I will investigate.

[Antonio the Sixth]

The solution may be to dig through the old pages of this board and find if John Ford had an office as Secretary of Defense or if it was mentioned in the White House thread. I can't do this at the moment since I only have a few minutes before work but upon my return tonight I will investigate.

Thank you.

[#CriminalizeSobriety]

My findings thus far of any mention: (This post is more just to hold information, and will be edited as I discover more.)

Finally, the 7th and 24th Army Divisions are going to be formally re-entered into the force structure of our military on August 15.  This move will greatly relieve the strain put on the military by the Iraq occupation.  We're working on that too, don't worry.

With Al-Sadr dead, the main cities of the Sunni triangle retaken, Ali Sistani on good terms with our nation and its mission, Baghdad quiet, and aid money flowing in, we believe that we will be ready to hold elections on the scheduled date.  These elections will de-legitimize the insurgency politically, as they have been de-legitimized militarily already by our offensive.

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State Department of Atlasia[/b]

Foreign Policy Review

Iceland-Iraq

Iceland, Republic of – No military or economic restrictions.

India, Republic of – No military or economic restrictions.

Indonesia, Republic of – Partial military restrictions and partial economic restrictions.

Iran, Islamic Republic of – Full military and economic restrictions.

Iraq, Republic of – No economic or military restrictions.

In agreement with others here, I oppose any restrictions on Israel and I think restrictions on Jordan should be partial, if any.  Jordan was an excellent ally in the Iraq war.

(Note past tense... I may be on to something.)

We're fighting a tough conflict in Iraq as it is.

Maybe not.

It is also worth noting I found a notice board containing an "Atlasia-Iraq Free Trade" bill (Dating to 2007), but the hyperlink in it seems broken.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

I mentioned the FTA as well.  It was superseded by a bill linking human rights and free trade.

[Antonio the Sixth]

So basically we were out of Irak by 2005, but were at war again in 2006 ?

[Kaine for Senate '18]

So basically we were out of Irak by 2005, but were at war again in 2006 ?

And then we basically didn't talk about it again until 2011/acted like we've been out the whole time.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Ah Atlasia.

So what are we doing, new bill? or can we modify this one through a veto overide process?