The Wisconsin Cheese Showdown

[Sbane]

Ah, so the Republican power grab is complete. Corporations will now have complete control of the political system. Hooray! What a great day for America!

[krazen1211]

Dude, I don't give a flying f**k about who introduced unions to where at what point in time. This discussion is about the budget, what Republicans are doing here in Wisconsin, and everywhere else. Even if I was to entertain your retarded "the other side does it too" excuse, that doesn't excuse a goddamn thing unless you have the mind of a toddler.


Rick Scott in Florida wants to cut 1.75 billion from the state's schools and give 1.6 billion away in tax breaks for business.

The Ohio budget repair bill includes anti-gay marriage language and giving politicians, not judges or any sort of neutral arbiter, power to resolve labor disputes. (And guts private and public union rights.)

Snyder in Michigan is supporting a budget bill that gives him power to unilaterally declare a state in "fiscal crisis" and place a new overseer of those towns with power to dismiss the elected officials of that town and potentially place a corporation in charge of it. He's also supporting a tax hike on poor people to give it away in tax breaks.

Republicans in Wisconsin threatened to tighten voter registration laws to intimidate the Democrats.

There's alot of things going on right now, but it has nothing to do with budget issues. There's something much more widespread and insidious going on here, and the people shelling out millions in fake grassroots movements depend on people like you to let them have their way.

Of course not, because you're just crying dishonest crocodile tears because the free flow of cash is ending. Not because you have some fictional stand on principle.

[MasterJedi]

Well this is another example of how Republicans actually get stuff done. Doyle did NOTHING in office for 8 YEARS and Republicans did all this in less then 3 months.

[Sbane]

Well this is another example of how Republicans actually get stuff done. Doyle did NOTHING in office for 8 YEARS and Republicans did all this in less then 3 months.

Why is getting rid of collective bargaining rights, the unions right to participate in the political process, something that needed to be done? The budget needed to be balanced, and if needed the unions needed to take deep cuts, which they did agree to, but the crap that got passed is just a bunch of extraneous elephant dung.

[krazen1211]

Why is getting rid of collective bargaining rights, the unions right to participate in the political process, something that needed to be done? The budget needed to be balanced, and if needed the unions needed to take deep cuts, which they did agree to, but the crap that got passed is just a bunch of extraneous elephant dung.

Mostly because the unions keep stacking the deck in their favor.

"We have the ability to elect our own boss."

[Sbane]

Why is getting rid of collective bargaining rights, the unions right to participate in the political process, something that needed to be done? The budget needed to be balanced, and if needed the unions needed to take deep cuts, which they did agree to, but the crap that got passed is just a bunch of extraneous elephant dung.

Mostly because the unions keep stacking the deck in their favor.

"We have the ability to elect our own boss."

What are you even talking about? They agreed to the cuts. That's all that matters.

It should be only about the budget, not your political wet dreams.

[Smash255]

Well this is another example of how Republicans actually get stuff done. Doyle did NOTHING in office for 8 YEARS and Republicans did all this in less then 3 months.

They just PROVED this was about UNION BUSTING and had NOTHING to do with the budget, the deficit or any fiscal issues at all.  They just PROVED that.   On top of that, they decided to break the open meetings law.

This is how this happened

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/vp/41998976#41998976


Disgusting, absolutely disgusting

[DrScholl]

But how does taking away rights make anything better? Especially since every financial provision was removed from the bill so that it could pass. This is not about what it's been made out to be and I wouldn't be surprised if Republicans tried to find way to extend this into private sector unions.

[krazen1211]

What are you even talking about? They agreed to the cuts. That's all that matters.

It should be only about the budget, not your political wet dreams.

Hardly. Public service unions have spent 50 years establishing themselves as an extension of the Democratic Party. If they want to do that, fine, but don't be shocked when the Republicans don't like you.

Union existence has never been about the budget in the first place.

[MasterJedi]

I don't even care if it was about the budget, good thing it passed anyways. Good buy to public union power in Wisconsin!

[krazen1211]

They just PROVED this was about UNION BUSTING and had NOTHING to do with the budget, the deficit or any fiscal issues at all.  They just PROVED that.   On top of that, they decided to break the open meetings law.

This is how this happened

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/vp/41998976#41998976

The obvious solution seems to be to repass the bill tomorrow. Yawn.

[Inverted Things]

I don't even care if it was about the budget, good thing it passed anyways. Good buy to public union power in Wisconsin!

Interesting way to put it...

[Sounder]

This is a great day.  We need to abolish all public sector labor cartels and replace them with voluntary worker associations.    

[Sbane]

I don't even care if it was about the budget,

At least you're being honest. It's still a disgusting power grab, but at least you are acknowledging that it is, correct? Are you fine with corporations being the only ones capable of funding campaigns now? It's quite disgusting what your party is doing just to gain a little more power. It really is.

Anyways, enjoy. Go shoot your gun and pray for the gays and muslims or whatever it is you guys like to do.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I don't even care if it was about the budget, good thing it passed anyways. Good buy to public union power in Wisconsin!

Oh, there was "buy"ing, alright. Republicans, in cooperation with powerful business interests have spent the last 30 years destroying private sector unions. Now it's time to destroy public sector unions. The last vestige of powerful organized power against corporate interests, politically.

Enjoy your billionaire masters. Maybe you'll get to be one of the lucky ones.

[Smash255]

I don't even care if it was about the budget, good thing it passed anyways. Good buy to public union power in Wisconsin!

So you don't care that Walker lied his ass off when he claimed this was a budget issue, and a deficit issue?

You don't care that the Republicans broke open meetings laws?

[Sounder]

At least you're being honest. It's still a disgusting power grab, but at least you are acknowledging that it is, correct?

It's busting power, not grabbing it.  

[krazen1211]

I don't even care if it was about the budget, good thing it passed anyways. Good buy to public union power in Wisconsin!

Be careful. The Democrats on a federal level have been trying to force unions down our throats anyway.

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-s3991/show



Basically, Democrats in the US House and Senate didn't like the idea that various states like North Carolina have barred the existence of public sector unions in state law. Pelosi and Reid could try this again.

[MasterJedi]

Wow, the overreaction to a typo!

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

PPP:"Do you think public employees in Wisconsin should or should not have a right to collective bargaining for wages, benefits, and working environment rules?"

Should have a right to collective bargaining- 57%
Should not- 37%
Not sure- 7%

The public clearly will side with Scott Walker and the Republicans on this issue!!!

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I love the Libertas-style debating here. "UNIONS ARE EVIL AND SO POWERFUL AND DESTRUCTIVE BLAH BLAH BLAH" with absolutely nothing backing up how they are so powerful and vile.

[krazen1211]

So you don't care that Walker lied his ass off when he claimed this was a budget issue, and a deficit issue?

You don't care that the Republicans broke open meetings laws?

I doubt anyone cares about that any more than they care about the lame duck shenanigans pulled by the outgoing governor Jim Doyle and the lame duck Democrats.

[DrScholl]

Interesting way to put it...

The definition of a Freudian slip. The supporters know what the real game is, which is why they are so glad about the passage.

[Smash255]

So you don't care that Walker lied his ass off when he claimed this was a budget issue, and a deficit issue?

You don't care that the Republicans broke open meetings laws?

I doubt anyone cares about that any more than they care about the lame duck shenanighans pulled by the outgoing governor Jim Doyle and the lame duck Democrats.

This was absolutely crazy and illegal


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/vp/41998976#41998976

Not to mention its clear as day this was NEVER about the budget, this was NEVER about the deficit, this was about Union Busting and union busting only, Walker lied his ass off and its clear as day.

[Sbane]

At least you're being honest. It's still a disgusting power grab, but at least you are acknowledging that it is, correct?

It's busting power, not grabbing it.  

Dude, if Republicans refuse to take money from their corporate buddies, I'll call it even. This is a complete power grab by the Republicans who want to neuter the union's influence in elections. I don't even think this will necessarily help Republicans (especially looking at the long term), rather it will make our corporate masters even more powerful. Is that what you want?

Trust me I know the abuses unions do. But the answer is to reign those practices in. The answer is to negotiate hard with them, like private companies do, so the taxpayers don't end up giving plush benefits. At the same time workers should be able to have a say in their pay, their work environment, as well as organize politically. I think the last part is very important until we get real campaign finance reform, perhaps even an amendment to the constitution. Until then money in US politics will continue to be a huge issue.