Libya: Benghazi unrest, to Civil War, to a new government and Gaddafi's death.

[Silent Hunter]

Yeah, France is the only Western country that is acting even somewhat bravely. Everyone else, Obama included, is cowardly allowing the stage to be set for a brutal massacre of the opposition and many years of even harsher tyranny and bloodshed.

What about the UK?

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Juppé is in UN to push the resolution.
France says it is 'convinced' that it would pass.
It would be voted in the end of the day in New-York.
Military operations could begin a matter of hours after the vote.

Apparently the resolution will be about, sanctions, a no-fly-zone, and it could even include some further military operations, like extended air strikes, which is part of what Libyans who came in Paris asked. Since there would be some Arab countries in it, Russia could accept, all would be about China, of which I have no clue about the position. If it's blocked, once again, I can't imagine France does nothing beyond it. Ah and, let's note the 180° in 12 hours of the USA, passing from an all mild position to Susan Rice who goes all tough, well, fine.

At least France is taking a leadership role on this (though their long historic bad blood with CQ dating back to the Chad War is noted...France never liked CQ talking of Libya replacing France as the big dog in Africa).

(What do you mean by CQ?). Well, yes, France already has an experience of intervention in Libya where it bombed an Air Force base in the south in 1986 to prevent Gaddafi invading the Chad, with which we had a defense agreement. And well, speaking about France in Africa and turning down an Air Force, France has a kind of 'experience' with the 'Côte d'Ivoire experience', in 2004 during the conflict between the power and the rebels, some planes of the Ivorian army bombs a French military camp, 9 soldiers dead, in like the 48 hours that followed Chirac gave the order to destroy the whole Ivorian Air Force, though we had bases in the country, which isn't the case in Libya. Alone we have 1 aircraft carrier (well, while not so old, that is when it isn't 'out for technical problems'), and well, according to a news report I saw once, we would have all kinds of necessary military equipment to organize a no-fly zone. But if Egypt participates it could become a good logistic base. Yesterday Italy said it didn't want of it, not sure they have done a 180° like the USA in the meantime, NATO seems more hot today than the days before though. Let's see.

I feel ashamed of being a westerner. I really wish our political leaders were born in Libya, that's all they deserve.

Well, it might be your Italian part speaking more than your French part here, because, to be fair, France had quite the perfect timing here. It began to seriously move on the 10th, when Gaddafi was seriously conquering back, before everybody was hopping the opposition would march on Tripoli alone, avoiding interference, which states always try to avoid for understandable reasons, it immediately spoke of air strikes, and it did it in response to an official demand of the Transition Council in Paris, was harder to do better actually. Now time could be short, yeah, it took time to move other countries, but hey, let's hope something happens soon, for once that France has interesting positions. Oh, and, about why France could be forth here, it could be thanks to Bernard Henry Lévy, not sure yet, but that could be him that has put the Transition Council in link with Paris, thus why they would have come here, and well he was in the presidential office with them and the President (speaking about that, he so smartly and proudly very loudly said to TV cameras what were the strategic positions the rebels wanted to see destroyed, let's hope it doesn't have negative impacts).

Wow, I'm supporting something promoted by Sarkozy, Cameron...and Bernard Henry Lévy!! Oh wow, it's exotic.

That being said, that Bernard is really cute sometimes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fb_z-qa7MsA

Go Bernard!

[Antonio the Sixth]

I'm speaking collectively. France (for once) played the good role, but the only thing that matters is that, once again, the West is engaging in endless disucssions instead of taking a clear action and stop the bloodshed.

[Hash]

If anybody thinks France is acting like this out of commitment to human rights/democracy and any other big nice concepts, they're stupid.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

If anybody thinks France is acting like this out of commitment to human rights/democracy and any other big nice concepts, they're stupid.

Disagree, we're speaking of the emotional Sarkozy who also like to appear like a Zorro here, and it's not the 1st time the guy would take an emotional decision, in case the emotional factor would have effectively been important, and well, aside from a military fail, he has nothing to lose in doing that. Now, if you mean that the Transition Council would have promised things to France in the Presidential office, nobody has to be over-smart to imagine something like this possible, and well, if effectively so, ultimately there would be nothing morally shocking in that, and anyhow the point would remain that at the end of the day someone did something.

That being said, I also hope we will have good military officials to plan things here, because a minister of Gaddafi just said that in case of attack, they would attack all the civilian planes and boats they could, it would seems to already quickly go nervous then, because moreover I just hear that Gaddafi would have just stated that he now plans to attack Benghazi tonight. Which has just been answered by the fact that a foreign military intervention would begin right after the resolution is voted (which isn't guaranteed yet). Last noises say that the vote would take place at 10pm GMT.

[Hash]

Isn't it so damn obvious that Sarkozy is only acting like this to boost his international standing after his utter incompetence on Tunisia/Egypt and an attempt to place himself ahead of the US on the issue?

Really, if anybody believes that France is acting out of concern for democracy or human rights they're either hopelessly idealist fools or downright stupid.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Isn't it so damn obvious that Sarkozy is only acting like this to boost his international standing after his utter incompetence on Tunisia/Egypt and an attempt to place himself ahead of the US on the issue?

Here I agree, that'd indeed be part of the factors. Now, I'm not sure some people dared pretending 'Democracy/Human Rights' would be the main point in that, it's a bonus.

[Insula Dei]

While the West's eagerness to stand by and watch in Bahrain is still a very distressing thing, taking actual measures against Qaddafi, the murderous maniac, would make up at least partially for 2 weeks or more of incompetent and disgracefull slowness as far as Lybia was concerned.

Of course, that wasn't the West's fault alone, as the rebels did give in to some serious hybris in thinking they'd get rid of Qaddafi without any sort of International involvement.

[The Mikado]

(What do you mean by CQ?).

I've been using it as an abbreviation for "Colonel Qaddafi."  Mainly because the other thread I'm following on the subject, on Something Awful, moves so fast that everyone has started calling him that to get their posts in and to avoid the name spelling disputes.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Oh ok, thanks.

In Benghazi, a radio has called for rebels to reach their defensive positions.
In New-York, apparently nobody would put a veto.

[Silent Hunter]

Ten minutes to go...

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

3 strong blasts and some anti-aircraft shooting would have been heard in Benghazi.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Begins:

http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/

France24 has it in French for French.

[Silent Hunter]

I think it's passed.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

It did!

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Now the job begins.

[Silent Hunter]

It's passed: 10 for, 0 against, 5 abstentions.

Let's hope this is a short war.

[Insula Dei]

Great news.

[Mr. Morden]

As of a week ago, I would not have expected that China and Russia would let such a resolution get through, but momentum for the no fly zone built up quickly over the last few days.

Gaddafi to be ousted as leader of Libya by Dec. 31st has shot up to 75.0 on Intrade.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Big joy in Benghazi.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

China, Russia, and Germany abstained.

Qatar and UAE (which on the other hand sent 500 policemen to Bahrain) will participate to the operations, but other Arab countries could too.

[Insula Dei]

Is that the Benghazi crowd chanting 'One, Two, Three, Something Sarkozy"?

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Is that the Benghazi crowd chanting 'One, Two, Three, Something Sarkozy"?

Oh, it would take the Algerian slogan back, well the Algerian one is '1! 2! 3! Viva l'Algérie!', lovely if so, seems there is the '1 2 3' part yes, it could be 'Viva Sarkozy' then, dunno.

[exopolitician]

Great news.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

France24 announces that Italy offers its bases for operations.