Opinion of opebo

[Torie]

Yes Gustaf, but there is something about the sex act that you find different than say a person of color waiting on you hand and foot consensually for pay sans sex.  Not that your drawing this distinction is unusual or anything, I understand. But it does require a host of what are to me, certain almost a priori assumptions/distinctions. Anyway, enough.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Has Gustaf read the profile on that girl Eliot Spitzer spent thousands on?

I find it rather silly to be accused of doing a "reverse opebo" and supposedly changing ideologies just because I dislike the government interfering with actions between consenting adults, regardless if money is involved or not. So every single person who thinks prostitution should be legal is some libertarian extremist?

[John Dibble]

I can't fathom why any decent human being would like him. So he occasionally makes a funny - that doesn't make him any less of an ass.

[Nym90]

Gustaf, you aren't likely to convince him since BRTD is basically Opebo with less money. The sycophantic lavishing of praise makes it quite obvious.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

My issue is more attacking him for prostitution, since I don't think it's wrong and think it should be legal. I'm not so concerned with people attacking him for other things, and if you've noticed I haven't really defended him on such.

[Gustaf]

Has Gustaf read the profile on that girl Eliot Spitzer spent thousands on?

I find it rather silly to be accused of doing a "reverse opebo" and supposedly changing ideologies just because I dislike the government interfering with actions between consenting adults, regardless if money is involved or not. So every single person who thinks prostitution should be legal is some libertarian extremist?

I have a hard time getting angry at people over the internet but your stupidity is so frustrating it really comes close. One single observation means nothing. How is it that you think that you can use one observation to prove anything? I didn't even say that every prostitute was a certain way. I said that most are.

And you didn't say that you were just in favour of prostitution. You said you were fine with any kind of labour being done by anyone on a free market, regardless of whether they were poor or whether it was degrading. I'm assuming this means you're in favour of abolishing all trade regulations, child labour laws, regulations on trade with organs and so on as well? After all, you wouldn't want to prevent consenting adults from making free choices, would you?

(or should I understand that you disagree with Opebo and want to make an arbitrary distinction as regards child prostitution? Because that would actually destroy a lot of the prostitution industry if you wanted to go there, and we wouldn't want that would we? And before you ask, this one stripper who promised she was over 18 doesn't count as evidence that they all are over 18)

[Insula Dei]

Obviously Opebo's entire lifestyle is extremely unethical. There is little doubt in my mind about the ethical dimension of (economically or otherwise) forced prostitution. Opebo basically lives like a king due to the oppresion of the people surrounding him. But to be absolutely fair, it's not as if opebo is the one doing the oppressing. Like all of us his entire quality of life is built upon the suffering of others. What's the ethical difference between buying a T-shirt from a Pakistani sweatshop and paying for Thai prostitutes? To me it seems like the difference is quite small at best.

What I think people like Gustaf find unsettling about opebo is what appears to be a lack of hypocrisy. Where most of us will refrain from reminding everyone about that time we bough a 2$ T-shirt, that was extremely cheap because the factory in India had to close after a horrible chemical accident, Opebo has no problem talking about all his experiences with prostitution.
I guess Opebo in person is a very likeable guy, who in a lot of aspects is extremely normal, yet he lacks our own sycophantic defense of freedom in a world where our own elected governments are the ones (in)directly responsible for 80% of ongoing oppression and this is what we find shocking.

Does Opebo lack in the department of morality? Sure
But is that what we find disturbing about him? I don't believe it is.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

That's exactly a point. Above of all we may disagree with or find find wrong, opebo have my respect for his lack of hypocrisy, and most of those, who are jumping at them, just hate to admit they're beneficiary of the very same processes. In order to save themselves from thinking deeper, they have a sacrificial lamb on-line.

[Ebowed]

I've always enjoyed my interactions with him.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Has Gustaf read the profile on that girl Eliot Spitzer spent thousands on?

I find it rather silly to be accused of doing a "reverse opebo" and supposedly changing ideologies just because I dislike the government interfering with actions between consenting adults, regardless if money is involved or not. So every single person who thinks prostitution should be legal is some libertarian extremist?

I have a hard time getting angry at people over the internet but your stupidity is so frustrating it really comes close. One single observation means nothing. How is it that you think that you can use one observation to prove anything? I didn't even say that every prostitute was a certain way. I said that most are.

OK but as someone with clearly more personal experience with them than you (though granted neither of us has much), I've never noticed that. Though I have noticed from prostitution review sites I've browsed before (btw you can find some very interesting things about your hometown if you read the forums you find by Googling "opebo") that most escorts tend to be independent practitioners and often have their own sites and whatnot, so I have a tough time seeing them as exploited. So we should both probably drop the generalities about whether they are exploited and admit that many are, many aren't, and ideally prostitution that does do so would be shut down while the non-exploited left alone. Does that sound reasonable?

BTW I read about the Netherlands shutting down a big human trafficking ring a few weeks ago, so you can't say they aren't doing anything about exploitation or anything.

Something else I've noticed btw is that the people on the other prostitution forums aren't misogynistic at all, most are very respectful of who they hire, are disgusted by pimping and exploitive prostitution and have rules about posting real names or personal info about people in the business. Now on the other hand I have a feeling many prudes so strongly against it probably think all the women are useless dirty whores who need to be locked up and show a hell of a lot less empathy.

And you didn't say that you were just in favour of prostitution. You said you were fine with any kind of labour being done by anyone on a free market, regardless of whether they were poor or whether it was degrading. I'm assuming this means you're in favour of abolishing all trade regulations, child labour laws, regulations on trade with organs and so on as well? After all, you wouldn't want to prevent consenting adults from making free choices, would you?

Please point to me where I said it. No I do not support abolishing all trade regulations (if you've read my posts you'd see I am against free trade too), child labor laws or regulations on organ trade. I think comparing just having sex with money involved to those is pretty asinine. Can you please explain to me the huge difference between the two following scenarios?

1-Guy meets girl at bar, buys her a drink. They end up going to his place and having a one-nighter.
2-Guy meets girl at bar, buys her a drink. He wants to have a one-nighter but she's reluctant, so he offers her $50. She agrees.

(or should I understand that you disagree with Opebo and want to make an arbitrary distinction as regards child prostitution?

Arbitrary? No more arbitrary than child labor laws in any other business. But anyway you are correct here, I don't think child prostitution should be legal or allowed.

Because that would actually destroy a lot of the prostitution industry if you wanted to go there, and we wouldn't want that would we?

Wow, you are really jumping to conclusions here. Yes I think the part of the prostitution industry that involves anyone underage should be destroyed. I never said it was good under all circumstances. I don't see how this is hypocritical. The Netherlands has shut down child prostitution rings and arrested people for engaging in it so it's clear they draw the line at that.

Speaking of which I read about an incident here where a guy who was a frequent client of an escort service called in requesting someone around 15. The actual owner of the escort service was so disgusted that she put in an anonymous tip to the police and agreed to anonymously cooperate with them to get him arrested, which did happen. Even the owner of an escort service doesn't tolerate child prostitution.

[afleitch]

Always got on fine with him

[phk]

He's getting tiring. Seems like he only ever posts 2-3 ideas these days.

Republican opebo is my most missed old poster. Heh.

[Eraserhead]

I went as blue opebo for Halloween last year.

[Mr. Morden]

I went as blue opebo for Halloween last year.

What did the costume look like?  A giant blue map of Missouri?

[Gustaf]

Yes Gustaf, but there is something about the sex act that you find different than say a person of color waiting on you hand and foot consensually for pay sans sex.  Not that your drawing this distinction is unusual or anything, I understand. But it does require a host of what are to me, certain almost a priori assumptions/distinctions. Anyway, enough.

I don't think a society where people have slaves is palatable either, even if they aren't used for sex.

It's true though that I think sex isn't the same as, say, cleaning. But differences between actions are obviously hard to define in any objective sense. On the other hand, I don't think I'm in the minority in thinking sex is a special class of action.

[opebo]

...I'm a white middle class male who can get sex for free, living in a country where it's illegal and shunned by polite society.

My god, what breathtaking arrogance, and what pathetic delusion!  Any man who thinks he 'gets sex for free' is a comical figure, but surely you realize you will soon be old.  Old men can't have sex with pretty young girls unless they give generously in return.

...I don't think I'm in the minority in thinking sex is a special class of action.

Yes, yes, we know all about how you feel and all the other prudes, but the point is that I disagree with that.

[Mexino Vote]

I take back my dislike of opebo on moral terms. I have sinned.

[Gustaf]

Obviously Opebo's entire lifestyle is extremely unethical. There is little doubt in my mind about the ethical dimension of (economically or otherwise) forced prostitution. Opebo basically lives like a king due to the oppresion of the people surrounding him. But to be absolutely fair, it's not as if opebo is the one doing the oppressing. Like all of us his entire quality of life is built upon the suffering of others. What's the ethical difference between buying a T-shirt from a Pakistani sweatshop and paying for Thai prostitutes? To me it seems like the difference is quite small at best.

What I think people like Gustaf find unsettling about opebo is what appears to be a lack of hypocrisy. Where most of us will refrain from reminding everyone about that time we bough a 2$ T-shirt, that was extremely cheap because the factory in India had to close after a horrible chemical accident, Opebo has no problem talking about all his experiences with prostitution.
I guess Opebo in person is a very likeable guy, who in a lot of aspects is extremely normal, yet he lacks our own sycophantic defense of freedom in a world where our own elected governments are the ones (in)directly responsible for 80% of ongoing oppression and this is what we find shocking.

Does Opebo lack in the department of morality? Sure
But is that what we find disturbing about him? I don't believe it is.

Eh, no. Actively seeking out and supporting a given system isn't the same as not taking part in a revolution to overthrow it. Of course, no one is perfect but the idea that we all are equally evil if we aren't Dalai Lama is ridiculous to me. I don't actively abuse people, nor do I glorify anything.

In fact, what bothers me about Opebo isn't that he's so honestly evil. It's that he is dishonestly evil. He actually claims that it is great to be exploited and even pretends to care about social justice. The old Opebo was openly fascist and I guess you could argue that he was honest in some sense. He, on the other hand, wasn't as popular for some reason.

[Gustaf]

...I'm a white middle class male who can get sex for free, living in a country where it's illegal and shunned by polite society.

My god, what breathtaking arrogance, and what pathetic delusion!  Any man who thinks he 'gets sex for free' is a comical figure, but surely you realize you will soon be old.  Old men can't have sex with pretty young girls unless they give generously in return.

...I don't think I'm in the minority in thinking sex is a special class of action.

Yes, yes, we know all about how you feel and all the other prudes, but the point is that I disagree with that.

I don't know if it makes you feel better, but I do realize how sad you must be. I would pity you if you had any redeeming traits, but unfortunately you don't.

[opebo]

I don't know if it makes you feel better, but I do realize how sad you must be. I would pity you if you had any redeeming traits, but unfortunately you don't.

Not at all, I'm famously happy.  I ride round the town here with a huge grin on my face - many people have remarked at it - 'why are you so happy on your motorbike?', and told me it looks a bit simpleminded.  But the truth is I'm just happy all the time - like a man escaped from prison.  Every moment is so incredibly enjoyable.

[Gustaf]

Has Gustaf read the profile on that girl Eliot Spitzer spent thousands on?

I find it rather silly to be accused of doing a "reverse opebo" and supposedly changing ideologies just because I dislike the government interfering with actions between consenting adults, regardless if money is involved or not. So every single person who thinks prostitution should be legal is some libertarian extremist?

I have a hard time getting angry at people over the internet but your stupidity is so frustrating it really comes close. One single observation means nothing. How is it that you think that you can use one observation to prove anything? I didn't even say that every prostitute was a certain way. I said that most are.

OK but as someone with clearly more personal experience with them than you (though granted neither of us has much), I've never noticed that. Though I have noticed from prostitution review sites I've browsed before (btw you can find some very interesting things about your hometown if you read the forums you find by Googling "opebo") that most escorts tend to be independent practitioners and often have their own sites and whatnot, so I have a tough time seeing them as exploited. So we should both probably drop the generalities about whether they are exploited and admit that many are, many aren't, and ideally prostitution that does do so would be shut down while the non-exploited left alone. Does that sound reasonable?

BTW I read about the Netherlands shutting down a big human trafficking ring a few weeks ago, so you can't say they aren't doing anything about exploitation or anything.

Something else I've noticed btw is that the people on the other prostitution forums aren't misogynistic at all, most are very respectful of who they hire, are disgusted by pimping and exploitive prostitution and have rules about posting real names or personal info about people in the business. Now on the other hand I have a feeling many prudes so strongly against it probably think all the women are useless dirty whores who need to be locked up and show a hell of a lot less empathy.

And you didn't say that you were just in favour of prostitution. You said you were fine with any kind of labour being done by anyone on a free market, regardless of whether they were poor or whether it was degrading. I'm assuming this means you're in favour of abolishing all trade regulations, child labour laws, regulations on trade with organs and so on as well? After all, you wouldn't want to prevent consenting adults from making free choices, would you?

Please point to me where I said it. No I do not support abolishing all trade regulations (if you've read my posts you'd see I am against free trade too), child labor laws or regulations on organ trade. I think comparing just having sex with money involved to those is pretty asinine. Can you please explain to me the huge difference between the two following scenarios?

1-Guy meets girl at bar, buys her a drink. They end up going to his place and having a one-nighter.
2-Guy meets girl at bar, buys her a drink. He wants to have a one-nighter but she's reluctant, so he offers her $50. She agrees.

(or should I understand that you disagree with Opebo and want to make an arbitrary distinction as regards child prostitution?

Arbitrary? No more arbitrary than child labor laws in any other business. But anyway you are correct here, I don't think child prostitution should be legal or allowed.

Because that would actually destroy a lot of the prostitution industry if you wanted to go there, and we wouldn't want that would we?

Wow, you are really jumping to conclusions here. Yes I think the part of the prostitution industry that involves anyone underage should be destroyed. I never said it was good under all circumstances. I don't see how this is hypocritical. The Netherlands has shut down child prostitution rings and arrested people for engaging in it so it's clear they draw the line at that.

Speaking of which I read about an incident here where a guy who was a frequent client of an escort service called in requesting someone around 15. The actual owner of the escort service was so disgusted that she put in an anonymous tip to the police and agreed to anonymously cooperate with them to get him arrested, which did happen. Even the owner of an escort service doesn't tolerate child prostitution.

You gave an example of people working in factories and seemed to imply that prostitution was degrading but it was fine since all other degrading jobs are fine. You seemed to be saying that using poor Mexicans in sweatshops was the same as prostitution, as implied by your support of the latter I took it that you defended the former.

But I'm eager to hear your rationale here. Why is it wrong to buy cheap t-shirts made by workers in Pakistan but right to buy cheap hookers? And before you say anything, I once met a poor worker in China and he seemed to be fine, so I think the story of horrible working conditions in the third world probably isn't true.

Anyway, I'm surprised people who buy prostitutes give such a positive picture of prostitution. Luckily, it is such an objective source of information that we can close that case right away.

Most of the rest of your post I can't really see as relevant. I'm still waiting for you to explain why prostitution is so correlated with poverty, being abused as a child or using drugs if it is such a great, free choice. How many friends do you have who are prostitutes for instance?

(P.S. I think I have more empathy than someone who thinks prostitutes are just having a fine time without problems)

[Gustaf]

I don't know if it makes you feel better, but I do realize how sad you must be. I would pity you if you had any redeeming traits, but unfortunately you don't.

Not at all, I'm famously happy.  I ride round the town here with a huge grin on my face - many people have remarked at it - 'why are you so happy on your motorbike?', and told me it looks a bit simpleminded.  But the truth is I'm just happy all the time - like a man escaped from prison.  Every moment is so incredibly enjoyable.

No need to overdo it. I'm not expecting you to leave denial, at least not on here. But your overcompensation is pretty obvious and shines through most of your posts.

[opebo]

I don't know if it makes you feel better, but I do realize how sad you must be. I would pity you if you had any redeeming traits, but unfortunately you don't.

Not at all, I'm famously happy.  I ride round the town here with a huge grin on my face - many people have remarked at it - 'why are you so happy on your motorbike?', and told me it looks a bit simpleminded.  But the truth is I'm just happy all the time - like a man escaped from prison.  Every moment is so incredibly enjoyable.

No need to overdo it. I'm not expecting you to leave denial, at least not on here. But your overcompensation is pretty obvious and shines through most of your posts.

Really?  I never mention 'being happy', but it so happens I am extremely so, more than I have been at any previous time of life.  You'll find however that there are a fair number of expats like me here, so I'm not unusual (though there are also quite a few grouchy ones who complain about everything Thai, so that's a common type as well).

Seriously, Gustaf, paying for sex is a lot of fun.  And life is good in every other way as well, though I suppose I'm unatturally lucky to have such an easy job.

[Brittain33]

Ok, I have a concern about opebo.

I wish that fewer topical threads that he posted on, stopped being about the topic at hand and turned into repartee with him about his worldview and "the bad place." Not every discussion has to be about why the U.S. should do things completely different to help the poors, and why that's a bad way to think. Maybe start a "philosophy of opebo" thread. The Wisconsin unions thread is the latest example.

[Insula Dei]

Obviously Opebo's entire lifestyle is extremely unethical. There is little doubt in my mind about the ethical dimension of (economically or otherwise) forced prostitution. Opebo basically lives like a king due to the oppresion of the people surrounding him. But to be absolutely fair, it's not as if opebo is the one doing the oppressing. Like all of us his entire quality of life is built upon the suffering of others. What's the ethical difference between buying a T-shirt from a Pakistani sweatshop and paying for Thai prostitutes? To me it seems like the difference is quite small at best.

What I think people like Gustaf find unsettling about opebo is what appears to be a lack of hypocrisy. Where most of us will refrain from reminding everyone about that time we bough a 2$ T-shirt, that was extremely cheap because the factory in India had to close after a horrible chemical accident, Opebo has no problem talking about all his experiences with prostitution.
I guess Opebo in person is a very likeable guy, who in a lot of aspects is extremely normal, yet he lacks our own sycophantic defense of freedom in a world where our own elected governments are the ones (in)directly responsible for 80% of ongoing oppression and this is what we find shocking.

Does Opebo lack in the department of morality? Sure
But is that what we find disturbing about him? I don't believe it is.

Eh, no. Actively seeking out and supporting a given system isn't the same as not taking part in a revolution to overthrow it. Of course, no one is perfect but the idea that we all are equally evil if we aren't Dalai Lama is ridiculous to me. I don't actively abuse people, nor do I glorify anything.

In fact, what bothers me about Opebo isn't that he's so honestly evil. It's that he is dishonestly evil. He actually claims that it is great to be exploited and even pretends to care about social justice. The old Opebo was openly fascist and I guess you could argue that he was honest in some sense. He, on the other hand, wasn't as popular for some reason.

The difference isn't very large, if you ask me, but then again I am not quite ready for the World revolution myself

To the point, I didn't claim opebo wasn't a hypocrite. He quite obviously is at some level. All I said was that I don't think it's the times he's a hypocrite we mind, but rather the times he fails to be one and openly avows to being among the opressors.

I've never lived trough blue opebo, though I can imagine he didn't have to adjust his little talk when he switched sides. It's sort of fycked up that he's managed to make BRTD his b*tch to the extent he has.

Oh, and I don't doubt opebo is a very happy guy. I'm quite sure there is a point where you stop caring about morality and get to live a very high-quality life just by crossing the borders even the hypocrisy of bourgeois morality hasn't lifted yet.