Declaration of Independence Banned at Calif School

[Alcon]

This isn't liberalism. This is idiocy.

And if the Democrats would stand up and say clearly and to one and all that it is indeed idiocy they have a shot in 06 and 08.

If they sit on their hands, as I expect most of them will,  and say nothing, then the GOP is indeed one step closer to 60 seats in the Senate.

Well, OK, but wouldn't it end up sounding a bit, err, odd, for a Democrat to just come out and say "ladies and gentlemen, for a final thought, the people of the Stevens Creek school in Cupertino, California, are totally nuts"? I don't think Democrats actually believe this sort of thing. However, that's like blaming the Republican party for Coburn's "lesbians in schools" comment. Why is it their job to comment on things they aren't involved in? It isn't.

(I don't mean to go after you too much, Vorlon - it's just that you're right 95% of the time and I'm trying to make that at least 97%.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Idiots.

I think that at the Convention Kerry should have done unto nutters like that what Kinnock did to Militant at that Labour Conference back in the '80's.

Great speech that. Got it on tape :-)

"...a Labour council, a LABOUR council, hiring taxis to hand out redundency notes to IT'S OWN WORKERS!..."

Take that Hatton!

[J-Mann]

This whole thing is quite sick, if you ask me.  Politics aside for a moment, I have a BA in History, so this sort of revisionist nonsense infuriates me.  So someone might be offended that "God" is mentioned in schools.  This dumbsh*t principal doesn't seem to take into account that this has very little to do with religion, per se.  It's more about teaching our children the true background of our country (and no, not all of the founding fathers were the religious zealots that everyone makes them out to be - still, religion played a prominant role in this nation's founding).

This is exactly the same kind of politically correct bull that leads an athiest to seek out a fight (ie: trying to get "under God" out of the pledge) where no one else thinks there is one.  How long, I wonder, will it be before this type of liberal idiocy attempts to block any Christian history from being taught in public schools?  How long before the 2000+ year history of this religion is written out of textbooks by overly sensitive pseudo-intellectuals who, in an attempt to be objective and neutral, are crapping all over real history.

And back to politics: Shira, get out.  There are plenty of other countries that will accomodate your views better than this one.  This whole issue of keeping our historical documents under wraps because God is mentioned in them is insane.  And I'm no right-wing evangelical: the 10 Commandments should not be displayed in public schools, nor should creationism of any kind be taught.  But rewriting history to eliminate religious references...not in my country.

Then again, maybe the principal just wants to keep the kids away from the treasure map that's on the back of the Declaration. 

[DaleC76]

The Declaration of Independence is hardly a ringing endorsement of religion.  It makes me wonder if the principal has actually read it.

What's next?  If the MERE MENTION of God is enough to get banned, then a lot of literature teachers are going to be up against it next semester.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The Declaration of Independence is hardly a ringing endorsement of religioin.  It makes me wonder if the teacher has actually read it.

"...life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness..."

I take you're point. The above is truely an example of evil, evil far right propaganda... yeah sure.
That teacher is an idiot

[agcatter]

Can't wait until the 9th Circuit gets around to ruling in favor of the school district.  Then sit back and watch the fun.

Perhaps some of you sophisticated blue state libs can enlighten us  flyover country simpletons as to the rationale behind this decision.  I'm sure it's probably beyond our limited comprehension, but why not give it a go.

[Andrew]

I notice that many people here seem to be up in arms after having heard just one side of the story--the argument made by the teacher's lawyer, who can hardly be expected to present an unbiased viewpoint.

It's possible that the principal has banned any references to the documents in question, due to a well-meaning but misguided attempt to maintain the separation of church and state.  In this case, the principal would be wrong.

It is also possible that the teacher was using the documents mentioned to advance the notion that we are somehow a Christian nation, and that the founding fathers were all Christians.  We know that this notion is false, and the principal would be correct in stopping the teacher.

We don't have any idea of what was going on in the classroom.

[agcatter]

How long until liberal judges rule the Constitution "unconstitutional"?  No surprise that the Declaration is biting the dust first.

Prohibiting the Declaration in the classroom.  I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the courtroom when some ACLU lawyer makes that argument.  Talk about some cheap entertainment.

[Engineer]

In regards to only knowing the teacher's side, the school district's only response to all this has been, "No comment."  This normally means that there is legitimacy to the accusations.  If the accusations were bogus, they would be commenting all over the place.  That said..

It shouldn’t be problem pulling the references pertaining to God out of these document and presenting them to the class. It is history. You are showing the students that the basis for these documents are rooted in the writer’s belief in God. These documents didn’t just spring up out of the goodness of their own selves, they came about because of their belief in God. To teach that, although politically incorrect in today’s society, is not wrong, but intellectually responsible. Could you teach about the Middle East and not bring up the religion of Islam? Of course not, the religion of Islam is what makes the Middle East what it is, just like Christianity made America what it is (or maybe I should say what it was…)

If the teacher was trying to convert his class to Christianity, then he has a problem.  Right message, wrong venue.  Neither should a teacher try to teach that there is no God.  Both are forcing their 'religion' on the students.  Don't go off the deep end, Shira, Christians have every right to try to convert people to Christianity, just like atheists have the right to try to convert people to atheism.

[John Dibble]

Libs just don't get it.  This is about the most stupid thing I've ever heard a school administrator pull.

Look for Dems to remain silent on this - mainly because deep inside, the overwhelming number of them agree with it.  Most people know it.

Absolutely incorrect -- but they won't bring attention to it because it could hurt them.

I disagree - they should bring attention to it, and they should declare it an act of blatant stupidity, bias, and intolerance. That would help them more than hurt them.

[agcatter]

problem is, they agree with the school district - they can't help themselves.

Hilarious.

[??????????]

It is also possible that the teacher was using the documents mentioned to advance the notion that we are somehow a Christian nation, and that the founding fathers were all Christians.  We know that this notion is false, and the principal would be correct in stopping the teacher.

The founders were very religious people. To deny it is to be a revisionist. Which of course most colleges and schools are full of, revisionist teachers.

[zorkpolitics]

In regards to only knowing the teacher's side, the school district's only response to all this has been, "No comment."  This normally means that there is legitimacy to the accusations.  If the accusations were bogus, they would be commenting all over the place.  That said..

It shouldn’t be problem pulling the references pertaining to God out of these document and presenting them to the class. It is history. You are showing the students that the basis for these documents are rooted in the writer’s belief in God. These documents didn’t just spring up out of the goodness of their own selves, they came about because of their belief in God. To teach that, although politically incorrect in today’s society, is not wrong, but intellectually responsible. Could you teach about the Middle East and not bring up the religion of Islam? Of course not, the religion of Islam is what makes the Middle East what it is, just like Christianity made America what it is (or maybe I should say what it was…)

If the teacher was trying to convert his class to Christianity, then he has a problem.  Right message, wrong venue.  Neither should a teacher try to teach that there is no God.  Both are forcing their 'religion' on the students.  Don't go off the deep end, Shira, Christians have every right to try to convert people to Christianity, just like atheists have the right to try to convert people to atheism.

Essentially Liberals have hijacked  the first amendment for 50 years.  They have come to believe the Constitution guarantees freedom FROM religion.  Of course it does no such thing, it actually is an attempt to guarantee freedom OF religion.  This is clear (except to liberal judges and the ACLU) from the language of the amendment:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise there of;

Now an average person interprets this to mean Congress can't pass a law to stop them from practicing their religion.  One has to tortuously twist the words to conclude that mentioning God in a public place or an historical document is illegal.  

If Democrats throughout the country fail to condemn this school district, they will be perceived as out of touch with the values of America.

[agcatter]

They won't condemn the school district because most Dems are now radical libs and HAVE lost touch. 

Let's all just sit back and enjoy the show.

[danwxman]

Can't wait until the 9th Circuit gets around to ruling in favor of the school district.  Then sit back and watch the fun.

Perhaps some of you sophisticated blue state libs can enlighten us  flyover country simpletons as to the rationale behind this decision.  I'm sure it's probably beyond our limited comprehension, but why not give it a go.

Again more elitism. And who yet has said they support this?

[danwxman]

In regards to only knowing the teacher's side, the school district's only response to all this has been, "No comment."  This normally means that there is legitimacy to the accusations.  If the accusations were bogus, they would be commenting all over the place.  That said..

It shouldn’t be problem pulling the references pertaining to God out of these document and presenting them to the class. It is history. You are showing the students that the basis for these documents are rooted in the writer’s belief in God. These documents didn’t just spring up out of the goodness of their own selves, they came about because of their belief in God. To teach that, although politically incorrect in today’s society, is not wrong, but intellectually responsible. Could you teach about the Middle East and not bring up the religion of Islam? Of course not, the religion of Islam is what makes the Middle East what it is, just like Christianity made America what it is (or maybe I should say what it was…)

If the teacher was trying to convert his class to Christianity, then he has a problem.  Right message, wrong venue.  Neither should a teacher try to teach that there is no God.  Both are forcing their 'religion' on the students.  Don't go off the deep end, Shira, Christians have every right to try to convert people to Christianity, just like atheists have the right to try to convert people to atheism.

This is the first reasonable post out of a right-winger on this thread. Congratulations.

[danwxman]

problem is, they agree with the school district - they can't help themselves.

Hilarious.

Who does?

[danwxman]

It is also possible that the teacher was using the documents mentioned to advance the notion that we are somehow a Christian nation, and that the founding fathers were all Christians.  We know that this notion is false, and the principal would be correct in stopping the teacher.

The founders were very religious people. To deny it is to be a revisionist. Which of course most colleges and schools are full of, revisionist teachers.

The founders were not all religious. Please get your history correct. Wait, who am I kidding? You're a southerner...I shouldn't expect you to get history right.

[Erc]

Idiots.

I think that at the Convention Kerry should have done unto nutters like that what Kinnock did to Militant at that Labour Conference back in the '80's.

Great speech that. Got it on tape :-)

"...a Labour council, a LABOUR council, hiring taxis to hand out redundency notes to IT'S OWN WORKERS!..."

Take that Hatton!

Well we all know what happened the last time somebody plagiarized Kinnock...

[DanielX]

It is also possible that the teacher was using the documents mentioned to advance the notion that we are somehow a Christian nation, and that the founding fathers were all Christians.  We know that this notion is false, and the principal would be correct in stopping the teacher.

The founders were very religious people. To deny it is to be a revisionist. Which of course most colleges and schools are full of, revisionist teachers.

The founders were not all religious. Please get your history correct. Wait, who am I kidding? You're a southerner...I shouldn't expect you to get history right.

Gosh, Isn't that bigotry? You know, what liberals are saying is supposed to be wrong? Okay, some Southerners do have their heads screwed on sideways, but still... isn't the whole point of 'tolerance' not to judge? Or is it only okay to judge Jews, Christians, Southerners, Americans (in general), and Israelis?

Damn... my unsophisticated head hurts.

[??????????]

It is also possible that the teacher was using the documents mentioned to advance the notion that we are somehow a Christian nation, and that the founding fathers were all Christians.  We know that this notion is false, and the principal would be correct in stopping the teacher.

The founders were very religious people. To deny it is to be a revisionist. Which of course most colleges and schools are full of, revisionist teachers.

The founders were not all religious. Please get your history correct. Wait, who am I kidding? You're a southerner...I shouldn't expect you to get history right.

My history is right. You believe the lies that have come from the Liberal/Yankee dominated school system for the past 125 years. The schools teach nothing but lies and deceptions regarding American history. I mean the schools teach that Lincoln was a great hero and president when in fact the truth is he was a terrible man and deserved to be killed. Anyone who teaches that the bastard Sherman or Grant were correct in their actions are worthy of jail and not promotion or to be paid by the state.

[danwxman]

It is also possible that the teacher was using the documents mentioned to advance the notion that we are somehow a Christian nation, and that the founding fathers were all Christians.  We know that this notion is false, and the principal would be correct in stopping the teacher.

The founders were very religious people. To deny it is to be a revisionist. Which of course most colleges and schools are full of, revisionist teachers.

The founders were not all religious. Please get your history correct. Wait, who am I kidding? You're a southerner...I shouldn't expect you to get history right.

My history is right. You believe the lies that have come from the Liberal/Yankee dominated school system for the past 125 years. The schools teach nothing but lies and deceptions regarding American history. I mean the schools teach that Lincoln was a great hero and president when in fact the truth is he was a terrible man and deserved to be killed. Anyone who teaches that the bastard Sherman or Grant were correct in their actions are worthy of jail and not promotion or to be paid by the state.

Okay. Instead of argue and debate, just bash my school which you know nothing about. That's cool and all.

[??????????]

It is also possible that the teacher was using the documents mentioned to advance the notion that we are somehow a Christian nation, and that the founding fathers were all Christians.  We know that this notion is false, and the principal would be correct in stopping the teacher.

The founders were very religious people. To deny it is to be a revisionist. Which of course most colleges and schools are full of, revisionist teachers.

The founders were not all religious. Please get your history correct. Wait, who am I kidding? You're a southerner...I shouldn't expect you to get history right.

My history is right. You believe the lies that have come from the Liberal/Yankee dominated school system for the past 125 years. The schools teach nothing but lies and deceptions regarding American history. I mean the schools teach that Lincoln was a great hero and president when in fact the truth is he was a terrible man and deserved to be killed. Anyone who teaches that the bastard Sherman or Grant were correct in their actions are worthy of jail and not promotion or to be paid by the state.

Okay. Instead of argue and debate, just bash my school which you know nothing about. That's cool and all.

I am just saying. Instead of believing the lies and hidden agendas that are pushed through by the public school system go to a library or National Archives and look up some private diaries and writings from the time in history that you are researching. Your eyes will open up to the facts.

[danwxman]

It is also possible that the teacher was using the documents mentioned to advance the notion that we are somehow a Christian nation, and that the founding fathers were all Christians.  We know that this notion is false, and the principal would be correct in stopping the teacher.

The founders were very religious people. To deny it is to be a revisionist. Which of course most colleges and schools are full of, revisionist teachers.

The founders were not all religious. Please get your history correct. Wait, who am I kidding? You're a southerner...I shouldn't expect you to get history right.

My history is right. You believe the lies that have come from the Liberal/Yankee dominated school system for the past 125 years. The schools teach nothing but lies and deceptions regarding American history. I mean the schools teach that Lincoln was a great hero and president when in fact the truth is he was a terrible man and deserved to be killed. Anyone who teaches that the bastard Sherman or Grant were correct in their actions are worthy of jail and not promotion or to be paid by the state.

Okay. Instead of argue and debate, just bash my school which you know nothing about. That's cool and all.

I am just saying. Instead of believing the lies and hidden agendas that are pushed through by the public school system go to a library or National Archives and look up some private diaries and writings from the time in history that you are researching. Your eyes will open up to the facts.

Yes. Personal diaries are certainly an unbiased source of history.

[??????????]

It is also possible that the teacher was using the documents mentioned to advance the notion that we are somehow a Christian nation, and that the founding fathers were all Christians.  We know that this notion is false, and the principal would be correct in stopping the teacher.

The founders were very religious people. To deny it is to be a revisionist. Which of course most colleges and schools are full of, revisionist teachers.

The founders were not all religious. Please get your history correct. Wait, who am I kidding? You're a southerner...I shouldn't expect you to get history right.

My history is right. You believe the lies that have come from the Liberal/Yankee dominated school system for the past 125 years. The schools teach nothing but lies and deceptions regarding American history. I mean the schools teach that Lincoln was a great hero and president when in fact the truth is he was a terrible man and deserved to be killed. Anyone who teaches that the bastard Sherman or Grant were correct in their actions are worthy of jail and not promotion or to be paid by the state.

Okay. Instead of argue and debate, just bash my school which you know nothing about. That's cool and all.

I am just saying. Instead of believing the lies and hidden agendas that are pushed through by the public school system go to a library or National Archives and look up some private diaries and writings from the time in history that you are researching. Your eyes will open up to the facts.

Yes. Personal diaries are certainly an unbiased source of history.

You would trust a modern history book over a diary or personal account?