Senate passes repeal of DADT with 65 votes

[Joe Biden 2020]

To me there is a double standard going on here.  I can't say one thing against homosexuality without being accused of bigotry or homophobia, but people can say bad stuff about Christianity all day long and never be called out.  People can't say one thing to promote their faith without being called a "Bible-thumper" or other things.  People can promote their homosexuality all day long and everyone is so loving and caring toward that.  Every time I try to tell someone about my faith, others accuse me of trying to shove Christianity down their throat.

I'm not trying to be offensive or anything and if I am, has anyone given thought to how I felt when my faith was being trashed right after I lost my job?  But, it's OK to bash Bushie, because he's fun to trash and his faith is useless, but he doesn't dare say anything about homosexuality or we'll call him a bigot and a sorry excuse for a human.

The issue is when you (or anyone else for that matter) use religion as a way to make excuses for being a bigot and going off on hate rants.

You didn't answer my question.  I can't say anything bad about homosexuality and the Biblical perspective of that without being called a bigot?

If you make a bigoted remark its going to be classified as a bigoted remark, it doesn't matter if the reason is based off something biblical or some other reason.   If you make a bigoted remark you are going to be called a bigot.

It doesn't matter, because even if I get accused of bigotry doesn't make it true.  I am not a bigot and that label will never stick to me.

Now, the second part of the question, since I was obviously called a bigot for my views on homosexuality, did anyone give thought to how I felt when my religion was trashed just two short weeks ago?

Is it perfectly acceptable to trash religion, but definitely against all moral reasoning to say one thing against homosexuality?

Bushie, the comments you made were flat out bigoted.  Plain and simple, you made very bigoted remarks and used religion as a way to explain why that venom you spewed was ok.

Also again I don't think anyone was trashing your religion.  You were being criticized for letting your religious beliefs get in the way of an actual and rationale thought process and decision making.

How was it bigoted?  I was just explaining my views on the legislation, which I am in favor of, by the way.  Yet, I called homosexuality a sin, which is what the Bible calls it, and I was called a bigot.  Then, I followed it up with my real views on the matter and it went in one ear and right out the other.

[Smash255]

To me there is a double standard going on here.  I can't say one thing against homosexuality without being accused of bigotry or homophobia, but people can say bad stuff about Christianity all day long and never be called out.  People can't say one thing to promote their faith without being called a "Bible-thumper" or other things.  People can promote their homosexuality all day long and everyone is so loving and caring toward that.  Every time I try to tell someone about my faith, others accuse me of trying to shove Christianity down their throat.

I'm not trying to be offensive or anything and if I am, has anyone given thought to how I felt when my faith was being trashed right after I lost my job?  But, it's OK to bash Bushie, because he's fun to trash and his faith is useless, but he doesn't dare say anything about homosexuality or we'll call him a bigot and a sorry excuse for a human.

The issue is when you (or anyone else for that matter) use religion as a way to make excuses for being a bigot and going off on hate rants.

You didn't answer my question.  I can't say anything bad about homosexuality and the Biblical perspective of that without being called a bigot?

If you make a bigoted remark its going to be classified as a bigoted remark, it doesn't matter if the reason is based off something biblical or some other reason.   If you make a bigoted remark you are going to be called a bigot.

It doesn't matter, because even if I get accused of bigotry doesn't make it true.  I am not a bigot and that label will never stick to me.

Now, the second part of the question, since I was obviously called a bigot for my views on homosexuality, did anyone give thought to how I felt when my religion was trashed just two short weeks ago?

Is it perfectly acceptable to trash religion, but definitely against all moral reasoning to say one thing against homosexuality?

Bushie, the comments you made were flat out bigoted.  Plain and simple, you made very bigoted remarks and used religion as a way to explain why that venom you spewed was ok.

Also again I don't think anyone was trashing your religion.  You were being criticized for letting your religious beliefs get in the way of an actual and rationale thought process and decision making.

How was it bigoted?  I was just explaining my views on the legislation, which I am in favor of, by the way.  Yet, I called homosexuality a sin, which is what the Bible calls it, and I was called a bigot.  Then, I followed it up with my real views on the matter and it went in one ear and right out the other.

Saying you hate homosexuality and going off on that rant you did is pretty bigoted.   Do you think homosexuals should be put to death?

[Joe Biden 2020]

To me there is a double standard going on here.  I can't say one thing against homosexuality without being accused of bigotry or homophobia, but people can say bad stuff about Christianity all day long and never be called out.  People can't say one thing to promote their faith without being called a "Bible-thumper" or other things.  People can promote their homosexuality all day long and everyone is so loving and caring toward that.  Every time I try to tell someone about my faith, others accuse me of trying to shove Christianity down their throat.

I'm not trying to be offensive or anything and if I am, has anyone given thought to how I felt when my faith was being trashed right after I lost my job?  But, it's OK to bash Bushie, because he's fun to trash and his faith is useless, but he doesn't dare say anything about homosexuality or we'll call him a bigot and a sorry excuse for a human.

The issue is when you (or anyone else for that matter) use religion as a way to make excuses for being a bigot and going off on hate rants.

You didn't answer my question.  I can't say anything bad about homosexuality and the Biblical perspective of that without being called a bigot?

If you make a bigoted remark its going to be classified as a bigoted remark, it doesn't matter if the reason is based off something biblical or some other reason.   If you make a bigoted remark you are going to be called a bigot.

It doesn't matter, because even if I get accused of bigotry doesn't make it true.  I am not a bigot and that label will never stick to me.

Now, the second part of the question, since I was obviously called a bigot for my views on homosexuality, did anyone give thought to how I felt when my religion was trashed just two short weeks ago?

Is it perfectly acceptable to trash religion, but definitely against all moral reasoning to say one thing against homosexuality?

Bushie, the comments you made were flat out bigoted.  Plain and simple, you made very bigoted remarks and used religion as a way to explain why that venom you spewed was ok.

Also again I don't think anyone was trashing your religion.  You were being criticized for letting your religious beliefs get in the way of an actual and rationale thought process and decision making.

How was it bigoted?  I was just explaining my views on the legislation, which I am in favor of, by the way.  Yet, I called homosexuality a sin, which is what the Bible calls it, and I was called a bigot.  Then, I followed it up with my real views on the matter and it went in one ear and right out the other.

Saying you hate homosexuality and going off on that rant you did is pretty bigoted.   

Okay, whatever.  Say what you wish, but it's not true.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Absolutely not!!! I never said that, you're putting words in my mouth.

So, another question.  If I say I hate homosexuality, am I a bigot?  Also, there were no hateful intentions in that post.  If there were, why would I follow it up with my real views?

[Smash255]

To me there is a double standard going on here.  I can't say one thing against homosexuality without being accused of bigotry or homophobia, but people can say bad stuff about Christianity all day long and never be called out.  People can't say one thing to promote their faith without being called a "Bible-thumper" or other things.  People can promote their homosexuality all day long and everyone is so loving and caring toward that.  Every time I try to tell someone about my faith, others accuse me of trying to shove Christianity down their throat.

I'm not trying to be offensive or anything and if I am, has anyone given thought to how I felt when my faith was being trashed right after I lost my job?  But, it's OK to bash Bushie, because he's fun to trash and his faith is useless, but he doesn't dare say anything about homosexuality or we'll call him a bigot and a sorry excuse for a human.

The issue is when you (or anyone else for that matter) use religion as a way to make excuses for being a bigot and going off on hate rants.

You didn't answer my question.  I can't say anything bad about homosexuality and the Biblical perspective of that without being called a bigot?

If you make a bigoted remark its going to be classified as a bigoted remark, it doesn't matter if the reason is based off something biblical or some other reason.   If you make a bigoted remark you are going to be called a bigot.

It doesn't matter, because even if I get accused of bigotry doesn't make it true.  I am not a bigot and that label will never stick to me.

Now, the second part of the question, since I was obviously called a bigot for my views on homosexuality, did anyone give thought to how I felt when my religion was trashed just two short weeks ago?

Is it perfectly acceptable to trash religion, but definitely against all moral reasoning to say one thing against homosexuality?

Bushie, the comments you made were flat out bigoted.  Plain and simple, you made very bigoted remarks and used religion as a way to explain why that venom you spewed was ok.

Also again I don't think anyone was trashing your religion.  You were being criticized for letting your religious beliefs get in the way of an actual and rationale thought process and decision making.

How was it bigoted?  I was just explaining my views on the legislation, which I am in favor of, by the way.  Yet, I called homosexuality a sin, which is what the Bible calls it, and I was called a bigot.  Then, I followed it up with my real views on the matter and it went in one ear and right out the other.

Saying you hate homosexuality and going off on that rant you did is pretty bigoted.   

Okay, whatever.  Say what you wish, but it's not true.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Absolutely not!!! I never said that, you're putting words in my mouth.

So, another question.  If I say I hate homosexuality, am I a bigot?  Also, there were no hateful intentions in that post.  If there were, why would I follow it up with my real views?

Yes, if you say if you hate homosexuality you are a bigot.

I wasn't putting words in your mouth, I was simply asking you a question.  You used the bible to justify your hate for homosexuality and the bible says homosexuals should be put to death

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

The punishments mentioned in the Bible are irrelevent. It's the morality behind the law that's important.

[Joe Biden 2020]

To me there is a double standard going on here.  I can't say one thing against homosexuality without being accused of bigotry or homophobia, but people can say bad stuff about Christianity all day long and never be called out.  People can't say one thing to promote their faith without being called a "Bible-thumper" or other things.  People can promote their homosexuality all day long and everyone is so loving and caring toward that.  Every time I try to tell someone about my faith, others accuse me of trying to shove Christianity down their throat.

I'm not trying to be offensive or anything and if I am, has anyone given thought to how I felt when my faith was being trashed right after I lost my job?  But, it's OK to bash Bushie, because he's fun to trash and his faith is useless, but he doesn't dare say anything about homosexuality or we'll call him a bigot and a sorry excuse for a human.

The issue is when you (or anyone else for that matter) use religion as a way to make excuses for being a bigot and going off on hate rants.

You didn't answer my question.  I can't say anything bad about homosexuality and the Biblical perspective of that without being called a bigot?

If you make a bigoted remark its going to be classified as a bigoted remark, it doesn't matter if the reason is based off something biblical or some other reason.   If you make a bigoted remark you are going to be called a bigot.

It doesn't matter, because even if I get accused of bigotry doesn't make it true.  I am not a bigot and that label will never stick to me.

Now, the second part of the question, since I was obviously called a bigot for my views on homosexuality, did anyone give thought to how I felt when my religion was trashed just two short weeks ago?

Is it perfectly acceptable to trash religion, but definitely against all moral reasoning to say one thing against homosexuality?

Bushie, the comments you made were flat out bigoted.  Plain and simple, you made very bigoted remarks and used religion as a way to explain why that venom you spewed was ok.

Also again I don't think anyone was trashing your religion.  You were being criticized for letting your religious beliefs get in the way of an actual and rationale thought process and decision making.

How was it bigoted?  I was just explaining my views on the legislation, which I am in favor of, by the way.  Yet, I called homosexuality a sin, which is what the Bible calls it, and I was called a bigot.  Then, I followed it up with my real views on the matter and it went in one ear and right out the other.

Saying you hate homosexuality and going off on that rant you did is pretty bigoted.  

Okay, whatever.  Say what you wish, but it's not true.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Absolutely not!!! I never said that, you're putting words in my mouth.

So, another question.  If I say I hate homosexuality, am I a bigot?  Also, there were no hateful intentions in that post.  If there were, why would I follow it up with my real views?

Yes, if you say if you hate homosexuality you are a bigot.

I wasn't putting words in your mouth, I was simply asking you a question.  You used the bible to justify your hate for homosexuality and the bible says homosexuals should be put to death

Then, in that case, I am proud to be a bigot.

[Mr. Morden]

There is obviously just one way to resolve this: afleitch needs to get on Bushie's flight to Jacksonville, and debate him on the plane.

[Joe Biden 2020]

To me there is a double standard going on here.  I can't say one thing against homosexuality without being accused of bigotry or homophobia, but people can say bad stuff about Christianity all day long and never be called out.  People can't say one thing to promote their faith without being called a "Bible-thumper" or other things.  People can promote their homosexuality all day long and everyone is so loving and caring toward that.  Every time I try to tell someone about my faith, others accuse me of trying to shove Christianity down their throat.

I'm not trying to be offensive or anything and if I am, has anyone given thought to how I felt when my faith was being trashed right after I lost my job?  But, it's OK to bash Bushie, because he's fun to trash and his faith is useless, but he doesn't dare say anything about homosexuality or we'll call him a bigot and a sorry excuse for a human.

The issue is when you (or anyone else for that matter) use religion as a way to make excuses for being a bigot and going off on hate rants.

You didn't answer my question.  I can't say anything bad about homosexuality and the Biblical perspective of that without being called a bigot?

If you make a bigoted remark its going to be classified as a bigoted remark, it doesn't matter if the reason is based off something biblical or some other reason.   If you make a bigoted remark you are going to be called a bigot.

It doesn't matter, because even if I get accused of bigotry doesn't make it true.  I am not a bigot and that label will never stick to me.

Now, the second part of the question, since I was obviously called a bigot for my views on homosexuality, did anyone give thought to how I felt when my religion was trashed just two short weeks ago?

Is it perfectly acceptable to trash religion, but definitely against all moral reasoning to say one thing against homosexuality?

Bushie, the comments you made were flat out bigoted.  Plain and simple, you made very bigoted remarks and used religion as a way to explain why that venom you spewed was ok.

Also again I don't think anyone was trashing your religion.  You were being criticized for letting your religious beliefs get in the way of an actual and rationale thought process and decision making.

How was it bigoted?  I was just explaining my views on the legislation, which I am in favor of, by the way.  Yet, I called homosexuality a sin, which is what the Bible calls it, and I was called a bigot.  Then, I followed it up with my real views on the matter and it went in one ear and right out the other.

Saying you hate homosexuality and going off on that rant you did is pretty bigoted.  

Okay, whatever.  Say what you wish, but it's not true.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Absolutely not!!! I never said that, you're putting words in my mouth.

So, another question.  If I say I hate homosexuality, am I a bigot?  Also, there were no hateful intentions in that post.  If there were, why would I follow it up with my real views?

Yes, if you say if you hate homosexuality you are a bigot.

I wasn't putting words in your mouth, I was simply asking you a question.  You used the bible to justify your hate for homosexuality and the bible says homosexuals should be put to death

Mind you, I'm not trying to start anything or be mean about anything, I just wanted to get a feel for how liberals actually think.  Personally, I don't have that many problems with homosexuality and if you'll read my follow-up, it explains it.  I don't really "hate" homosexuality, I don't care for it, but I don't hate it with a passion.  I think it's unbiblical, but I'm not a hard-nosed conservative on that issue, and as was pointed out earlier, my views are liberal compared to most of Oklahoma.  I have good friends who are/were homosexuals, take jamespol for instance.  He and I have been friends for 4 1/2 years, and I have never had a problem with his sexual orientation.  I've had friends even here in Oklahoma, even working with some, and I've had absolutely no problems with them or about them.  I saw them as my co-workers, not as "that fag over there".  In fact, when someone around me bashes the lifestyle, I refrain from saying anything.  Sometimes I will speak my mind, which brings on attacks from the right, as well.

To afleitch and my other gay forum brothers, I really respect you and how you've conducted yourself.  I apologize for any hurtful comments I made toward you.  They were not intentional.  I was reacting to my views on the legislation and just got a little carried away with it.

[TeePee4Prez]

Wow there are some overly PC and "highly offended" people in here.  Look, Bushie is entitled to his opinion albeit a highly f-ed up one.  But this is a political Forum- DEAL!.  Afleitch, there was no need for the personal attacks against him.  If you're offended by what BushOK says, then me thinks there are some unresolved issues with you.

This is pretty entertaining.

Continue.

[Smash255]

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When you start throwing around words like hate about homosexuality you start sounding like your Senators.  You back tracked from it a bit, but don't you understand how saying you hate it can be construed as bigoted? 

If someone said they hated blacks, or Jews, or Christians they would rightly be viewed as bigots, don't you agree?

[Franzl]

What the hell is the "homosexual lifestyle"? You hear that a lot from uninformed people, particularly from places like Oklahoma.

[Ebowed]

What the hell is the "homosexual lifestyle"?

I imagine it involves gratuitous amounts of gambling, drinking, promiscuity, and a clandestine desire to project the Homosexual Agenda onto the mainstream public.

[Brittain33]

Bushie, I'm on record here saying that you weren't being a hateful person, but also asking why you say you "HATE" homosexuality in one line and then say that a sin is a sin, homosexuality is equivalent to a white lie. I was wondering why, then, you view homosexuality as meriting HATE which you presumably don't feel in your bones about other sins.

Beyond that, I'd ask why you say homosexuality goes against everything God teaches, when I think any Christian would recognize there are plenty of things God teaches against that have nothing to do with homosexuality (like, for example, doing harm to other people and failing to take care of and love family members.)

What I see here is that your citing your religious education as a basis for your beliefs, but you've layered on some more serious feelings that aren't justified by the Biblical basis for your views, although I can believe that your religious leaders may share that... excessive concern... about homosexuality as oppoed to other sins. I'm not going to all you a bigot or hateful, but I am going to note that.

[afleitch]

Then, in that case, I am proud to be a bigot.

I don't really "hate" homosexuality, I don't care for it, but I don't hate it with a passion.  

Sounds like a very reflective 15 minutes.

My problem is this; People nowadays try to 'bargain' when it comes to gays because they want to get away with holding stupid opinions; 'Surely because x book says y that I should be allowed to say homosexuality is wrong.' But the thing is you can't say such a thing and retain any credibility. It is intellectually dishonest to because of what we now know about homosexuality and it's genetic and chemical factors. Homosexuality can a biological trace on a person even before the person knows they are gay; in the length of fingers, in the direction of the hair pattern on the head, brain patterns are different, reactions to smells are different. Just saying 'I think it's a choice' over and over again doesn't make it so. To the contrary; research from reputable social, biological and genetic experts say otherwise. The may still be trying to work out exactly what it is but they certainly know what it is not Sadly you still adhere to what it is not.

People argue that 'it's a choice' so they feel they can legitimately speak out against it (particularly the religious; which is ironic as religion is a choice). But they are on dangerous territory. Not only are such arguments blatantly devious they are also deeply offensive. So alot of religious people simply ignore the science and they ignore the testimony of gays that they may know because it doesn't fit with how they want to think.

I'm not religious anymore. But I think if you believe that it's gods creation and if you ignore the things that we discover about the world and the people in it in favour of a book with human influence and error, then you essentially have a problem with his creation.

What the hell is the "homosexual lifestyle"? You hear that a lot from uninformed people, particularly from places like Oklahoma.

If you ever find that out please let us know

[Ebowed]

People nowadays try to 'bargain' when it comes to gays because they want to get away with holding stupid opinions

Probably the most succinct way of describing what Bushie was trying to do there.  He is two-faced: realizes his religious interpretation is patently false, but is emotionally unable to acknowledge as such.

[Frozen Sky Ever Why]

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When you start throwing around words like hate about homosexuality you start sounding like your Senators.  You back tracked from it a bit, but don't you understand how saying you hate it can be construed as bigoted? 

If someone said they hated blacks, or Jews, or Christians they would rightly be viewed as bigots, don't you agree?

But there is a difference between saying 'I hate homosexuality' and 'I hate homosexuals'. A lot of Christians go by hate the sin not the sinner. If BushOklahoma believes and follows the Bible, it only make sense that he would have a dislike for something considered a sin. You can't choose the things you'd like to believe from your religion, otherwise what's the point? No religion teaches moderation.

[Ebowed]

You can't choose the things you'd like to believe from your religion, otherwise what's the point?

To take the moral high ground while still choosing what you believe, I suppose.

[Brittain33]

Condemning down harshly on homosexuality, BTW, is a pain-free way for people to feel like they're doing good and being rigorous in their morality without paying any price for it. That's kind of why it's galling. I imagine Bushie feels he's being persecuted here for standing up for his deeply-held religious beliefs, while I doubt he's ever had to give much thought to why he holds this belief or what the implications are for other people, how it conflicts with other teachings, or why those of us who embrace this "sin" do so and to understand how we reach that conclusion in a way that respects our autonomy and basic goodness as individuals. Instead of holding to cartoon-book explanations of lazy sinners, ignorance, or the devil, as if none of us had to struggle through religious views that conflicted with what our own creation tells us is true.

If he were preaching this in a college classroom in some parts of the country, he would be going out on a limb, but where he lives, everyone is part of the game and applauds his moral stand to be critical and hold himself above that which he doesn't understand and declines to try to understand.

I know, based on the job search discussions, that it's nearly impossible to get him to reconsider something when he's already decided he knows the answer--especially something like this where he is absolutely certain he has the answers and there is no threat of a vanished paycheck or angry, defrauded relatives to focus his mind and force him to examine the contradictions and shallow thinking at the root of his beliefs. But, like him, I have to keep sharing the truth and hoping people will open their eyes and see the light. In the meantime, I love him as a person and hold out hope he will rise out of his pride and lack of compassion for his fellow man with time.

[Verily]

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When you start throwing around words like hate about homosexuality you start sounding like your Senators.  You back tracked from it a bit, but don't you understand how saying you hate it can be construed as bigoted?  

If someone said they hated blacks, or Jews, or Christians they would rightly be viewed as bigots, don't you agree?

But there is a difference between saying 'I hate homosexuality' and 'I hate homosexuals'. A lot of Christians go by hate the sin not the sinner. If BushOklahoma believes and follows the Bible, it only make sense that he would have a dislike for something considered a sin. You can't choose the things you'd like to believe from your religion, otherwise what's the point? No religion teaches moderation.

Come now. "I don't hate black people, I just hate dark skin." Now, Christianity doesn't actually preach this--although Mormonism did, until the 1970s. Imagine someone believed in an otherwise sane religion that had a line in its holy book condemning dark skin. Would you honestly argue to us that hating "dark skin" was not being bigoted?

The point is that "the sin" and "the sinner" are not extricable when the "the sin" is not a choice. In such cases, to hate "the sin" is to hate "the sinner".

[Frozen Sky Ever Why]

But to a certain extent, isn't it that Christians have a problem with the act of homosexuality, as in two members of the same sex having sex, rather than the attraction itself? Last time I checked most of them don't even accept that it's something they are born with. I remember Falwell at least accepted the possibility that it was, but he viewed it as no different than him being attracted to women other than his wife.

I'm not condemning homosexuality, but that argument would not work with most religious people, because even though people cannot choose who they are attracted to, they can choose who they have sex with. People cannot choose if they are born with dark skin.

[afleitch]

But to a certain extent, isn't it that Christians have a problem with the act of homosexuality, as in two members of the same sex having sex, rather than the attraction itself? Last time I checked most of them don't even accept that it's something they are born with. I remember Falwell at least accepted the possibility that it was, but he viewed it as no different than him being attracted to women other than his wife.

I'm not condemning homosexuality, but that argument would not work with most religious people, because even though people cannot choose who they are attracted to, they can choose who they have sex with. People cannot choose if they are born with dark skin.

But that argument doesn't stand up either. Again it was only two generations ago that some people said; okay so you're black but do you really have to marry and have sex with someone who's white?

Of course I can choose who to have sex with....but the person has to be male. And that is a direct consequence of my homosexuality. Sparks in my brain and sparks in my loins just don't happen for women. So they say I have a 'choice' but I don't really; it's either sex with men or no sex.

In both examples they are exuses given by people for no legitimate reason other than that they are personally uncomfortable with it.

[Verily]

But to a certain extent, isn't it that Christians have a problem with the act of homosexuality, as in two members of the same sex having sex, rather than the attraction itself? Last time I checked most of them don't even accept that it's something they are born with. I remember Falwell at least accepted the possibility that it was, but he viewed it as no different than him being attracted to women other than his wife.

I'm not condemning homosexuality, but that argument would not work with most religious people, because even though people cannot choose who they are attracted to, they can choose who they have sex with. People cannot choose if they are born with dark skin.

Except you can't. I mean, you can choose individuals with whom you have sex (don't have sex with everyone, kiddies), but you can't choose in general the type of people with whom you have sex. Celibacy is not a legitimate option (for anyone, or at least those who are not asexual), nor is having sex with people to whom it is impossible to be attracted (which sounds a lot like having sex with just anyone).

It's just a fallacious assumption, and one that not even their religion (as evidenced from Biblical texts) endorses.

[Frozen Sky Ever Why]

I understand your point, I doubt most Christians would agree with it though. That's all I'm saying.

[afleitch]

I understand your point, I doubt most Christians would agree with it though. That's all I'm saying.

Then that essentially is their problem. We cannot sweep aside decades of increased understanding and research on human sexuality because a religious group is uncomfortable with it.

[Phony Moderate]

I understand your point, I doubt most Christians would agree with it though. That's all I'm saying.

Then that essentially is their problem. We cannot sweep aside decades of increased understanding and research on human sexuality because a religious group is uncomfortable with it.

Shut up. You're a disgrace to our God and our values.