THE THREE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

THE THREE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS 

sermon can be viewed at the following site:

http://sermon.net/graceistheplace/sermonid/2537213

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Summary:

Solomon concludes his remarkable book, Ecclesiastes, by saying, "...hear the conclusion of the whole matter; fear God, and keep His commandments...for God shall bring every work into judgment."   

1. Fear God.

2. Keep His commandments.

3. Live as if you know judgment is coming.

He writes this fantastic book with wonderful lessons for living, and when he wraps it up he presents these three concepts as the "conclusion of the whole matter."  The most important thing he could pass on to us was to fear God, to obey His Word, and to live as if we're going to be judged for how we live.

When you think about it, it's easy to agree with him.

FEAR GOD. I'm not sure we do much of that.  In my youth in the 60's churches were just starting to build gyms and game rooms and try to attract people based on the fun they could have, not on the truth they would be taught. And in keeping with the new direction they stopped telling us to fear God lest we confuse "fear" with "being afraid." 

They didn't want us to "be afraid" of God.  So now we're looking at a generation which was raised on having "fun" at church, being catered to instead of serving, and having no fear of God.  And maybe for the first time since the founding of America churches are on the decline in growth.  Interesting, isn't it?

Solomon was right.  The most important thing is to fear God, even if you can't separate the meaning of "fear" from "being afraid."

I feared my dad when I was a boy.  I knew he wouldn't beat me.  But I knew he could.  And because I feared him, when he told me to do something I OBEYED him.  Because I was afraid not to.

When you live that way, it seems you always suspect you're going to get caught, so even when I was away from my dad, if my buddies wanted to do something that I knew Dad would not approve of, I found that I couldn't.  I was afraid that he might somehow find out.  And he'd be disappointed in me.

In some way,then, all three of these things work hand in hand.  If we FEAR God, we will be more likely to OBEY His Word.  Even though we can't see Him, and can't tell for sure that He is present, we conduct ourselves as if He will surely find out what we do.  So we act right because we think JUDGMENT might be coming.

And all the other rules or regulations, truths and boundaries, are almost completely unnecessary, because a proper and healthy fear keeps us living the way we know we should.

Maybe it's time for this generation to resurrect fear of God.  We Christians might behave better if we thought judgment was coming.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

video doesn't appear to be working yet, but the audio version is

[Joe Kakistocracy]

If I may throw in my two cents here, it's interesting to see the parallel between this mindset and that of much of the right-wing in today's society.  You don't know exactly what's out there outside your own lifestyle and immediate surroundings; you wouldn't fully understand it if exposed to it; there's likely nothing there anyway; and yet you FEAR it so passionately!

[afleitch]

Your pastors unoriginality is starting to become grating.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Your pastors unoriginality is starting to become grating.

you mean because he sticks to the word of God?

[afleitch]

Your pastors unoriginality is starting to become grating.

you mean because he sticks to the word of God?

No; because he seems (from what I have read/heard) to shoe horn in his own personal issues which appear to be unresolved.

Joe touches on some interesting points. Fear is a very powerful tool and a great form of social control whether in small groups such as families and communities to wider society. It's very interesting that the pastor brings up the analogy of his father; if anything the relationship he had with his father does not sound a particularly balanced one. Perhaps it is more symptomatic of the time when he was a child, but when I grew up I never feared my father. Any transgressions on my part were met with dissapointment rather than discipline which allowed me to reflect on my own actions. Of course when you grow older you should (though I know some do not always...) forge a different relationship with your father.

The fact that he equates a 'fearful' father-boy relationship with that of an adult and an unseen being through encouraging a 'state of fear' is quite frankly disturbing.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Your pastors unoriginality is starting to become grating.

you mean because he sticks to the word of God?

No; because he seems (from what I have read/heard) to shoe horn in his own personal issues which appear to be unresolved.

Joe touches on some interesting points. Fear is a very powerful tool and a great form of social control whether in small groups such as families and communities to wider society. It's very interesting that the pastor brings up the analogy of his father; if anything the relationship he had with his father does not sound a particularly balanced one. Perhaps it is more symptomatic of the time when he was a child, but when I grew up I never feared my father. Any transgressions on my part were met with disappointment rather than discipline which allowed me to reflect on my own actions. Of course when you grow older you should (though I know some do not always...) forge a different relationship with your father.

The fact that he equates a 'fearful' father-boy relationship with that of an adult and an unseen being through encouraging a 'state of fear' is quite frankly disturbing.

1) you haven't listened to the sermon or you wouldn't be making comments regarding his relationship with his father.  since you are so lazy and arrogant enough to think you can read between the lines of a summary and judge a father-son relationship...you should start at the 25 min mark and you'll see the example my pastor used of his father. (for those interested in listening to the fear of war, there are many Vietnam tidbits concerning how my pastor was more afraid of this doped up buddies with weapons than he was of the enemy...but you'll have to start at the beginning of the sermon)

2) regarding Joe's comments - I challenge you to find a SINGLE post of mine of the last 8 years where I stated I feared anything other than God.  (I think a made a post regarding Terry Bradshaw was the most "feared" QB of his day, but that is not the kind of fear we're talking about in this thread).  Fear of anything on this earth (except for stuff like fear of heights) is not an idea I promote because the concept is foreign to me.  To claim that the fear of God causes one to be fearful of man is laughable (which is why I didn't respond to Joe's comments), for it does just the opposite.

3) it is no surprise you would have a problem with this sermon, for even when you proclaimed to be a believer, you demonstrated no fear of God in your lifestyle and your distortions of scripture in order to justify that lifestyle.

[afleitch]

1) you haven't listened to the sermon or you wouldn't be making comments regarding his relationship with his father.  since you are so lazy and arrogant enough to think you can read between the lines of a summary and judge a father-son relationship...you should start at the 25 min mark and you'll see the example my pastor used of his father. (for those interested in listening to the fear of war, there are many Vietnam tidbits concerning how my pastor was more afraid of this doped up buddies with weapons than he was of the enemy...but you'll have to start at the beginning of the sermon)

Thanks for making the point for me.

The rest I will ignore because you're in troll mood.

[Joe Kakistocracy]

To claim that the fear of God causes one to be fearful of man is laughable (which is why I didn't respond to Joe's comments), for it does just the opposite.

I said nothing about causation, and any implication of it was not my intent.  Rather, that "fear of God" has parallels with "fear" of pretty much anything and everything that much of the right-wing in today's society has little knowledge or understanding of.  Poor people, Mexicans, Muslims, gay people, etc etc.

But of course, you're coming from the perspective that "God" is not a man-made philosophical concept, and thus you can never truly understand where I'm coming from.

[Joe Kakistocracy]

Incidentally, I don't think the title really needs to be in ALLCAPS.  Fair enough if you want to discuss what you believe to be the "most important things", but there's no need to yell at us.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Incidentally, I don't think the title really needs to be in ALLCAPS.  Fair enough if you want to discuss what you believe to be the "most important things", but there's no need to yell at us.

you think a title in all caps is yelling at you?!  LOL! talk about being fearful.

fyi, the title and summary are a straight copy and paste:

http://myemail.constantcontact.com/GRACE-NOTES--The-Three-Most-Important-Things.html?soid=1101781144813&aid=j8GSK2WS9EM

see, every section title is in all caps.  there's nothing to be afraid of.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

1) you haven't listened to the sermon or you wouldn't be making comments regarding his relationship with his father.  since you are so lazy and arrogant enough to think you can read between the lines of a summary and judge a father-son relationship...you should start at the 25 min mark and you'll see the example my pastor used of his father. (for those interested in listening to the fear of war, there are many Vietnam tidbits concerning how my pastor was more afraid of this doped up buddies with weapons than he was of the enemy...but you'll have to start at the beginning of the sermon)

Thanks for making the point for me.

The rest I will ignore because you're in troll mood.

so, you're telling me youre not going to make sure your don't upset a bunch of GI's smoking a table full of pot with access to M16's and grenades?   He used those example to demonstrate how his behavior around his basecamp was moderated by his fear of the combination of guns and drugs.

Don't see why you would see a problem with that, but oh well.

[Joe Kakistocracy]

Incidentally, I don't think the title really needs to be in ALLCAPS.  Fair enough if you want to discuss what you believe to be the "most important things", but there's no need to yell at us.

you think a title in all caps is yelling at you?!  LOL! talk about being fearful.

fyi, the title and summary are a straight copy and paste:

http://myemail.constantcontact.com/GRACE-NOTES--The-Three-Most-Important-Things.html?soid=1101781144813&aid=j8GSK2WS9EM

see, every section title is in all caps.  there's nothing to be afraid of.

Thanks for responding to by far the more pressing and crucial of my two most recent posts here.

It's netiquette (not that you'd know much about it), but it's hardly important.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Incidentally, I don't think the title really needs to be in ALLCAPS.  Fair enough if you want to discuss what you believe to be the "most important things", but there's no need to yell at us.

you think a title in all caps is yelling at you?!  LOL! talk about being fearful.

fyi, the title and summary are a straight copy and paste:

http://myemail.constantcontact.com/GRACE-NOTES--The-Three-Most-Important-Things.html?soid=1101781144813&aid=j8GSK2WS9EM

see, every section title is in all caps.  there's nothing to be afraid of.

It's netiquette (not that you'd know much about it), but it's hardly important.

well, gee, I've only been posting here over 8 years - it's not like I have a history of posting in all caps

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Thanks for responding to by far the more pressing and crucial of my two most recent posts here.

Maybe I would have responded to them if you had a point or a substantive retort, because as it stands now, my pastor has been chided for fearing GIs with drugs and grenades, and I have been taken to the wood shed for copying and pasting a thread title in all caps even though I don't have a history of posting in all caps and even though many times I post whole paragraphs without using a single uppercase letter, even to begin sentences.

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I said nothing about causation, and any implication of it was not my intent.  Rather, that "fear of God" has parallels with "fear" of pretty much anything and everything that much of the right-wing in today's society has little knowledge or understanding of.  Poor people, Mexicans, Muslims, gay people, etc etc.
 

There is nothing in my philosophy that has anything to do with fearing people:

1)   Poor people:  any day you want to compare how much time and money you and I spend helping the poor, just let me know.  Also, anytime you want to compare your childhood neighborhood with mine, and the ethnic composition of your high school with mine, let me know.
2)   Mexicans:  I am sure, in fact I am absolutely positive, I have had a higher integration with “Mexicans” than you have.  The vast majority of my high school was Mexican, as were my friends and the girls I dated, and I dated a lot of them.
3)   Muslims:  I’ve never given a hint that I fear Muslims.  I’ve merely stated I consider the religion they believe in to be a lie and lacks any ability to save them.  And in regard to the radical Muslims, I’ve only repeated their own stated intentions and shown that their actions are precisely in line with those intentions.  I am NOT the one that buries my head in the sand and ignore their words.  And I have no personal fear of even the radicals, for I don’t live in a place that would be a prime target.
4)   Gays:  my statements regarding homosexuality are exactly the same as my statements regarding adultery, bestiality, fornication, drunkenness, lying, stealing, greed, etc, etc, etc.  I am not the one that dances around the portions of the bible that are not political correct; to the contrary, it is the cowards who do that.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

The rest I will ignore because you're in troll mood.

Yo, better take a look in the mirror, for in the span of one page you have:

1) Complained that my pastor is unoriginal because his sermons somehow reflect his “personal issues”
2) Stated one of my pastors “personal issues” was due to a poor father-son relationship with his father simply because his father whipped him for repeatedly disobeying and going under a car that was jacked up on stands on a gravel driveway, even though the whipping may have saved his life.  When in fact you're the one who stated you have a poor father-son relationship.
3) Stated that my pastor’s fear of doped up GI’s with M16 and grenades was more evidence of him have “personal issues”

You’ve been the epitome of a troll in this thread and we all know the reason why:  My pastor doesn’t deviate from the bible’s preaching against homosexuality and you find that offensive to your homosexual lifestyle, and therefore you’re going to attack any and every word out of his mouth, without even taking the time to review the material, even if it means that you have to blatantly distort common sense.

And regardless if you’re a mod or not, you’ve displayed complete idiocy in this thread.

[Joe Kakistocracy]

I said nothing about causation, and any implication of it was not my intent.  Rather, that "fear of God" has parallels with "fear" of pretty much anything and everything that much of the right-wing in today's society has little knowledge or understanding of.  Poor people, Mexicans, Muslims, gay people, etc etc.
 

There is nothing in my philosophy that has anything to do with fearing people:

1)   Poor people:  any day you want to compare how much time and money you and I spend helping the poor, just let me know.  Also, anytime you want to compare your childhood neighborhood with mine, and the ethnic composition of your high school with mine, let me know.
2)   Mexicans:  I am sure, in fact I am absolutely positive, I have had a higher integration with “Mexicans” than you have.  The vast majority of my high school was Mexican, as were my friends and the girls I dated, and I dated a lot of them.
3)   Muslims:  I’ve never given a hint that I fear Muslims.  I’ve merely stated I consider the religion they believe in to be a lie and lacks any ability to save them.  And in regard to the radical Muslims, I’ve only repeated their own stated intentions and shown that their actions are precisely in line with those intentions.  I am NOT the one that buries my head in the sand and ignore their words.  And I have no personal fear of even the radicals, for I don’t live in a place that would be a prime target.
4)   Gays:  my statements regarding homosexuality are exactly the same as my statements regarding adultery, bestiality, fornication, drunkenness, lying, stealing, greed, etc, etc, etc.  I am not the one that dances around the portions of the bible that are not political correct; to the contrary, it is the cowards who do that.

Why do seem to think I'm referring specifically to you?  I couldn't care less what you personally claim to be afraid of.  I'm talking about the mindset that is common within the right-wing in modern society, of which I accept is not some giant, homogenous hive mind.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Why do seem to think I'm referring specifically to you?  I couldn't care less what you personally claim to be afraid of.  I'm talking about the mindset that is common within the right-wing in modern society, of which I accept is not some giant, homogenous hive mind.

then whom do you know that fits your description of what you describe as "common" within the right-wing, JSJ's socks?  and why don't I represent the "common"?!

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

4)Gays:  my statements regarding homosexuality are exactly the same as my statements regarding adultery, bestiality, fornication, drunkenness, lying, stealing, greed, etc, etc, etc.  I am not the one that dances around the portions of the bible that are not political correct; to the contrary, it is the cowards who do that.

JamJam, is it possible for me to believe in God but think being gay isn't a bad thing in the eyes of God?

[J. J.]

I would disagree and say:

1.  Love God with all your heart sole and mind.

2.  Love your neighbor as yourself.

Ah, I didn't say that was the first one to say it.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

I would disagree and say:

1.  Love God with all your heart sole and mind.

2.  Love your neighbor as yourself.

Ah, I didn't say that was the first one to say it.

No, you weren’t the first to say it, Moses was.  The sermon in this thread was the last one in a series studying Ecclesiastes, and the three main points are the three points listed in the conclusion:

Ecc 12:13-14 
13 Now all has been heard;
   here is the conclusion of the matter:
Fear God and keep his commandments,
   for this is the duty of all mankind.
14 For God will bring every deed into judgment,
   including every hidden thing,
   whether it is good or evil.

Jesus cited “Love God with all your heart sole and mind” (Dt 6:5) “Love your neighbor as yourself” (Lev 19:18) as the summation of ALL the Old Testament, but the 3 things cited in this sermon is just the summation of the book of Ecclesiastes.

[J. J.]

I would disagree and say:

1.  Love God with all your heart sole and mind.

2.  Love your neighbor as yourself.

Ah, I didn't say that was the first one to say it.

No, you weren’t the first to say it, Moses was.  The sermon in this thread was the last one in a series studying Ecclesiastes, and the three main points are the three points listed in the conclusion:

Ecc 12:13-14 
13 Now all has been heard;
   here is the conclusion of the matter:
Fear God and keep his commandments,
   for this is the duty of all mankind.
14 For God will bring every deed into judgment,
   including every hidden thing,
   whether it is good or evil.

Jesus cited “Love God with all your heart sole and mind” (Dt 6:5) “Love your neighbor as yourself” (Lev 19:18) as the summation of ALL the Old Testament, but the 3 things cited in this sermon is just the summation of the book of Ecclesiastes.

Jesus also said, "On all this hangs all the laws and the prophets."  It was no summation.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Jesus also said, "On all this hangs all the laws and the prophets."  It was no summation.

what?!  

Well, I disagree.

As does the Catholic Church:

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=0h&oq=jesus+&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGLL_enUS371US371&q=jesus+summarizes+the+ten+commandments+catholic

As does the Apostle Paul:

Romans 13:9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law….Gal 5:14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

If you weren’t so busy being argumentative, maybe you would see it the same way.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

a) the three most important things... as determined by your Pastor

...my favourite part....

b) and "if you weren't so busy trying to question me... you'd accept that me and my Pastor are right"

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

a) the three most important things... as determined by your Pastor

No, actually, it is VERBATIM what Ecclesiastes states:

Ecc 12:13 Now all has been heard;
   here is the conclusion of the matter:
Fear God and keep his commandments,
   for this is the duty of all mankind.
14 For God will bring every deed into judgment,
   including every hidden thing,
   whether it is good or evil.

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...my favourite part....

b) and "if you weren't so busy trying to question me... you'd accept that me and my Pastor are right"

Actually, the witnesses I cited were the Apostle Paul and the Catholic Church, to which J.J. claims he was at least once connected.  I brought up the Catholic Church in an effort to stir some sense of respect within J.J. since he was making foolish statements (that Jesus wasn’t summarizing the Law and the Prophets) with which no one in Christianity agrees, simply for the sake of opposing me.  But making stupid statements for the sake of opposing me is something many (including you yourself, apparently) on this forum do.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

a) I don't trust the Catholic Church

b) I don't consider the bible to be a satisfactory primary source

On that topic, I was in Church years ago and a Christian Historian from a local University came and spoke about the issue of the Bible as a historical source... he was of course, dismissive of "secularists" who tried to suggest exactly what I do. My view is that Bible could never be considered a serious historical source, no more than the Tudor propaganda program against the heirs of the Lancastrians. The story and history is tainted...

I asked, what I thought was a reasonable question to a University lecturer... "what if the 1st person history, that the Bible relies on (person, to person) is wrong?"...he looked at me as I had just asked "who's Jesus?"... and spun the question away so hard it was breathtaking, a friend sitting in front of me turned and said "he didn't answer the question at all"