Cigarette mail ban hitting NY tribe's businesses

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

Cigarette mail ban hitting NY tribe's businesses

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Good job Obama and Gillibrand, doing what politicians do best: destroying jobs, lives and freedom. You've screwed over the Indians once again, but Phillip Morris and big tobacco corporations are happy, so that's all that matters.

Of course this doesn't just affect Indian cigarette sales, it also adds burdens to the sale of other tobacco products from European exporters as well.


God, government is such an evil, disgusting, worthless entity....

[Torie]

It looks to me more like a circumvention of the sales tax.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

It looks to me more like a circumvention of the sales tax.

Being able to circumvent the State mafia's armed robbery scheme is just another of the many things we lose as a result of this horrible bill.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Won't they just move to UPS or FedEx?

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

Won't they just move to UPS or FedEx?

Using UPS or FedEx raises the cost quite dramatically, as I myself have experienced. Sellers are not allowed to ship through the mail at all after the "PACT Act" went into force. There are also even more burdens being added to use those shipping methods.

Here's some of the provisions of this piece of sh**t the criminal federal regime is shoving down America's throat:

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[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I have never understood the hypocritical hatred of cigarettes when the drinking of alcohol is accepted by so many.

This is yet another law that never should've been passed in my opinion.

[dead0man]

Smokers are all evil so it's easy to screw them over every chance we get.  Easy for the voters, easy for the politicos.  Fat people are next.  As a non-fatty and a smoker I'll stand by and laugh when it goes down.

[patrick1]

Smokers are all evil so it's easy to screw them over every chance we get.  Easy for the voters, easy for the politicos.  Fat people are next.  As a non-fatty and a smoker I'll stand by and laugh when it goes down.

I've been trying to tell the pot heads to think twice about the legalize it campaign for a good decade. They should push for de-criminalization because I think the government would just turn it into another revenue stream.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I have never understood the hypocritical hatred of cigarettes when the drinking of alcohol is accepted by so many.

How's it hypocritical?

[Verily]

I have never understood the hypocritical hatred of cigarettes when the drinking of alcohol is accepted by so many.

This is yet another law that never should've been passed in my opinion.

1) Cigarette smoking affects the health and well-being of people other than the smoker. Drinking does not (except in rare circumstances like drunk driving, which is criminal and strongly prosecuted).

2) Cigarette smoking contributes far more to health problems, and thus health care costs, than drinking. Although excessive drinking can cause serious health issues like cirrhosis, they are rarer and less severe than the cancers caused by smoking.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

I have never understood the hypocritical hatred of cigarettes when the drinking of alcohol is accepted by so many.

This is yet another law that never should've been passed in my opinion.

1) Cigarette smoking affects the health and well-being of people other than the smoker. Drinking does not (except in rare circumstances like drunk driving, which is criminal and strongly prosecuted).

2) Cigarette smoking contributes far more to health problems, and thus health care costs, than drinking. Although excessive drinking can cause serious health issues like cirrhosis, they are rarer and less severe than the cancers caused by smoking.

How does using smokeless tobacco products affect anyone but the user?

[Verily]

I have never understood the hypocritical hatred of cigarettes when the drinking of alcohol is accepted by so many.

This is yet another law that never should've been passed in my opinion.

1) Cigarette smoking affects the health and well-being of people other than the smoker. Drinking does not (except in rare circumstances like drunk driving, which is criminal and strongly prosecuted).

2) Cigarette smoking contributes far more to health problems, and thus health care costs, than drinking. Although excessive drinking can cause serious health issues like cirrhosis, they are rarer and less severe than the cancers caused by smoking.

How does using smokeless tobacco products affect anyone but the user?

How does using straw men further destroy your credibility? The bill makes no mention of smokeless tobacco products, and there are no restrictions other than age on their sale or use.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

I have never understood the hypocritical hatred of cigarettes when the drinking of alcohol is accepted by so many.

This is yet another law that never should've been passed in my opinion.

1) Cigarette smoking affects the health and well-being of people other than the smoker. Drinking does not (except in rare circumstances like drunk driving, which is criminal and strongly prosecuted).

2) Cigarette smoking contributes far more to health problems, and thus health care costs, than drinking. Although excessive drinking can cause serious health issues like cirrhosis, they are rarer and less severe than the cancers caused by smoking.

How does using smokeless tobacco products affect anyone but the user?

How does using straw men further destroy your credibility? The bill makes no mention of smokeless tobacco products, and there are no restrictions other than age on their sale or use.

- Makes cigarettes, loose tobacco and smokeless tobacco non-mailable.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I have never understood the hypocritical hatred of cigarettes when the drinking of alcohol is accepted by so many.

This is yet another law that never should've been passed in my opinion.

1) Cigarette smoking affects the health and well-being of people other than the smoker. Drinking does not (except in rare circumstances like drunk driving, which is criminal and strongly prosecuted).

2) Cigarette smoking contributes far more to health problems, and thus health care costs, than drinking. Although excessive drinking can cause serious health issues like cirrhosis, they are rarer and less severe than the cancers caused by smoking.

I'm not talking about people smoking inside around other people.  And most of the people who I've observed having this hypocrisy aren't up to date on current events to understand/care about the effects on health care costs.

[Verily]

I have never understood the hypocritical hatred of cigarettes when the drinking of alcohol is accepted by so many.

This is yet another law that never should've been passed in my opinion.

1) Cigarette smoking affects the health and well-being of people other than the smoker. Drinking does not (except in rare circumstances like drunk driving, which is criminal and strongly prosecuted).

2) Cigarette smoking contributes far more to health problems, and thus health care costs, than drinking. Although excessive drinking can cause serious health issues like cirrhosis, they are rarer and less severe than the cancers caused by smoking.

How does using smokeless tobacco products affect anyone but the user?

How does using straw men further destroy your credibility? The bill makes no mention of smokeless tobacco products, and there are no restrictions other than age on their sale or use.

- Makes cigarettes, loose tobacco and smokeless tobacco non-mailable.

Very well, but the reason cited for the bill is that mail orders are mostly used as an end-run around both taxation and age restrictions. Thus, the bill has nothing to do with health issues w/r/t tobacco anyway; I was citing them as a general statement to Inks about why tobacco and alcohol are treated differently. (Tobacco and alcohol are both, of course, subject to age restrictions and taxation.)

You're still an idiot, good day.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

I have never understood the hypocritical hatred of cigarettes when the drinking of alcohol is accepted by so many.

This is yet another law that never should've been passed in my opinion.

1) Cigarette smoking affects the health and well-being of people other than the smoker. Drinking does not (except in rare circumstances like drunk driving, which is criminal and strongly prosecuted).

2) Cigarette smoking contributes far more to health problems, and thus health care costs, than drinking. Although excessive drinking can cause serious health issues like cirrhosis, they are rarer and less severe than the cancers caused by smoking.

How does using smokeless tobacco products affect anyone but the user?

How does using straw men further destroy your credibility? The bill makes no mention of smokeless tobacco products, and there are no restrictions other than age on their sale or use.

- Makes cigarettes, loose tobacco and smokeless tobacco non-mailable.

Very well, but the reason cited for the bill is that mail orders are mostly used as an end-run around both taxation and age restrictions. Thus, the bill has nothing to do with health issues w/r/t tobacco anyway; I was citing them as a general statement to Inks about why tobacco and alcohol are treated differently. (Tobacco and alcohol are both, of course, subject to age restrictions and taxation.)

You're still an idiot, good day.

Ah, personal attacks, now I know I've won this little debate.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

I have never understood the hypocritical hatred of cigarettes when the drinking of alcohol is accepted by so many.

This is yet another law that never should've been passed in my opinion.

1) Cigarette smoking affects the health and well-being of people other than the smoker. Drinking does not (except in rare circumstances like drunk driving, which is criminal and strongly prosecuted).

2) Cigarette smoking contributes far more to health problems, and thus health care costs, than drinking. Although excessive drinking can cause serious health issues like cirrhosis, they are rarer and less severe than the cancers caused by smoking.

I'm not talking about people smoking inside around other people.  And most of the people who I've observed having this hypocrisy aren't up to date on current events to understand/care about the effects on health care costs.

Barack Obama smokes, but he's a filthy rich power elite who won't seriously be affected these policies. It is indeed hypocrisy.

[Verily]

I have never understood the hypocritical hatred of cigarettes when the drinking of alcohol is accepted by so many.

This is yet another law that never should've been passed in my opinion.

1) Cigarette smoking affects the health and well-being of people other than the smoker. Drinking does not (except in rare circumstances like drunk driving, which is criminal and strongly prosecuted).

2) Cigarette smoking contributes far more to health problems, and thus health care costs, than drinking. Although excessive drinking can cause serious health issues like cirrhosis, they are rarer and less severe than the cancers caused by smoking.

I'm not talking about people smoking inside around other people.  And most of the people who I've observed having this hypocrisy aren't up to date on current events to understand/care about the effects on health care costs.

Well, to be fair on the outdoor smoking ban advocates, public drinking is illegal in a lot of places, too.  And smoking (outdoor or indoor) still harms the well-being of people who have to put up with the disgusting smell generated by a habit that even most smokers acknowledge is something they'd like to put a stop to. Drinking does not do the same; I do not have a coughing fit if I walk past someone drinking on the street.

[Ban my account ffs!]

The classic Libertarian Argument to Pretty Much Everything™

"If you don't like not being able to run a mail order business because of federal laws to prevent evasion of taxes and sales to underage smokers, then you can easily just move your tribe somewhere else and do business there."

Why try to change things in a democratic society when you can just use your apparently unlimited financial resources to react and move every time someone does something you don't like!  Vote with your pocketbook, because that's better and more important than your human dignity.

[Earth]

This is a terrible law, and goddamn stupid to boot. Although, I expect nothing less from people with a fetish for moral panics.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

The classic Libertarian Argument to Pretty Much Everything™

"If you don't like not being able to run a mail order business because of federal laws to prevent evasion of taxes and sales to underage smokers, then you can easily just move your tribe somewhere else and do business there."

Why try to change things in a democratic society when you can just use your apparently unlimited financial resources to react and move every time someone does something you don't like!  Vote with your pocketbook, because that's better and more important than your human dignity.

If I wish to engage in a voluntary transaction with a foreign or Indian seller, it's none of the U.S. federal regime's business what I choose to buy.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I have never understood the hypocritical hatred of cigarettes when the drinking of alcohol is accepted by so many.

This is yet another law that never should've been passed in my opinion.

1) Cigarette smoking affects the health and well-being of people other than the smoker. Drinking does not (except in rare circumstances like drunk driving, which is criminal and strongly prosecuted).

2) Cigarette smoking contributes far more to health problems, and thus health care costs, than drinking. Although excessive drinking can cause serious health issues like cirrhosis, they are rarer and less severe than the cancers caused by smoking.

I'm not talking about people smoking inside around other people.  And most of the people who I've observed having this hypocrisy aren't up to date on current events to understand/care about the effects on health care costs.

Well, to be fair on the outdoor smoking ban advocates, public drinking is illegal in a lot of places, too.  And smoking (outdoor or indoor) still harms the well-being of people who have to put up with the disgusting smell generated by a habit that even most smokers acknowledge is something they'd like to put a stop to. Drinking does not do the same; I do not have a coughing fit if I walk past someone drinking on the street.

I'm not even talking about that - I'm merely talking about the judgment that goes on toward people who smoke - even if they're a single guy who smokes only in his car or in his house.  There's an amount of judgment there just on people who smoke that's not there nearly as much for alcohol.

[Verily]

I have never understood the hypocritical hatred of cigarettes when the drinking of alcohol is accepted by so many.

This is yet another law that never should've been passed in my opinion.

1) Cigarette smoking affects the health and well-being of people other than the smoker. Drinking does not (except in rare circumstances like drunk driving, which is criminal and strongly prosecuted).

2) Cigarette smoking contributes far more to health problems, and thus health care costs, than drinking. Although excessive drinking can cause serious health issues like cirrhosis, they are rarer and less severe than the cancers caused by smoking.

I'm not talking about people smoking inside around other people.  And most of the people who I've observed having this hypocrisy aren't up to date on current events to understand/care about the effects on health care costs.

Well, to be fair on the outdoor smoking ban advocates, public drinking is illegal in a lot of places, too.  And smoking (outdoor or indoor) still harms the well-being of people who have to put up with the disgusting smell generated by a habit that even most smokers acknowledge is something they'd like to put a stop to. Drinking does not do the same; I do not have a coughing fit if I walk past someone drinking on the street.

I'm not even talking about that - I'm merely talking about the judgment that goes on toward people who smoke - even if they're a single guy who smokes only in his car or in his house.  There's an amount of judgment there just on people who smoke that's not there nearly as much for alcohol.

I think this is an inherent (and good) aspect of human social interaction. They are aware that what he is doing is bad for him, so even if it doesn't affect them directly, they express their disapproval in an attempt to use social pressure to make him stop self-destructive behavior. I doubt most think about this consciously (although I do), but consider how people react to and disdain other self-destructive behavior, e.g. wrist-cutting. It's a beneficial social adaptation, not something to be discouraged, at least so long as the behavior in question is actually self-destructive.

People do say this about self-destructive drinkers, too. Think about the judgement passed on people who drink alone in their rooms (who are also those most likely to be alcoholics).

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Let me get out the world's smallest violin for these death merchants.

Looks like this passed overwhelmingly, only 11 voted against it. Amazed the Republicans didn't continue with their standard worship of tobacco.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The classic Libertarian Argument to Pretty Much Everything™

"If you don't like not being able to run a mail order business because of federal laws to prevent evasion of taxes and sales to underage smokers, then you can easily just move your tribe somewhere else and do business there."

Why try to change things in a democratic society when you can just use your apparently unlimited financial resources to react and move every time someone does something you don't like!  Vote with your pocketbook, because that's better and more important than your human dignity.

If I wish to engage in a voluntary transaction with a foreign or Indian seller, it's none of the U.S. federal regime's business what I choose to buy.

It's none of the US gov'ts business if your choose to buy say Stinger missles?