French Referendums and Plebiscites survivor - October 1962 survivor !

[Hans-im-Glück]

3   June 1802
2   June 1804
1   November 1852

[big bad fab]

It's fascinating in some way. But it's also a quite hypocritical system of fake democracy. Being  approved by the people doesn't give legitimacy to do whatever you want, especially when there is no free speech and an intense propaganda. I don't hate the two empires, I think they gave many good things to the country, but this way of justifying dictatorship in the name of the people is very disturbing.

That's just intellectually interesting .
Again, I don't say I agree or disagree with the system and I don't put a judgement on it.
I know it's a false legitimacy: I just take this as an object for studying.
This way of justifying authoritarianism is indeed morally disturbing, but that's not my problem here.
You know I'm not really a communist and still, the books I have in greatest amount are on the Soviet Union, on Stalin, Trotsky, Beria, Gorbachev, the Soviet Army, the organization of the Party, the Politburo, the local barons, the KGB, etc. This is what I call "fascinating".
Many books on the SS, the RSHA, the Einsatzgruppen, the ORPO, the NSDAP also. Because it's important to understand and study. Many on Vichy.
And some on Peronism (not read... !), on the modern Chinese leadership, on Milosevic, etc again because dictatorships, totalitarianisms, authoritarianisms, are very interesting and reveal many things on human nature and human behaviours.
I just want to learn.

And, as for our "subject", I'm more and more fed up with survivors in which we vote as if we support a football team
And I think Hans, Edu, jdb-Mr.X, Vazdul also vote more and more for "kewl", funny, interesting, fascinating, suspenseful, brilliant, original, etc, names or elections or cities or whatever.
It's really funnnier !

But, don't worry, after the very old ones, I'll also vote for LNB's plebiscites !

[big bad fab]

July 1793 - "An I" constitution
September 1795 - "An III" constitution
September 1795 - "Two thirds" decree
January 1800 - "An VIII" constitution
June 1802 - Napoleon, consul for life
June 1804 - "An XII" constitution
May 1815 - Additional provision to Empire constitutions
20-21 December 1851 - Constitutional powers to Louis-Napoleon Bonaparte
21-22 November 1852 - Foundation of the 2nd Empire
8 mai 1870 - Constitutional draft of 20 April 1870
21 October 1945 - Constitutional powers to the Assembly
21 October 1945 - Provisional constitutional law
5 May 1946 - Constitutional draft of 19 April 1946
13 October 1946 - Constitution of the Fourth Republic
28 September 1958 - Constitution of the Fifth Republic
8 January 1961 - Self-determination in Algeria
8 April 1962 - Evian Treaty and Algeria's independence
28 October 1962 - Direct election of the President of the French Republic
27 April 1969 - Regional organization and Senate's reform
23 April 1972 - Enlargement of the European Communities
6 November 1988 - Self-determination in New Caledonia
20 September 1992 - Maastricht Treaty
24 September 2000 - Five-year presidential term
29 May 2005 - Constitutional Treaty of Europe

Results:
Round 1: July 1793 3, September 1795 (An III Constit.) 3, June 1804 3, November 1852 2, June 1802 1
Round 2: September 1795 (An III Constit.) 2 (3 previous points), May 1815 2 (0 previous point), June 1804 1, June 1802 1, November 1852 -1
Round 3: May 1815 7, September 1795 (2 thirds decree) 5, June 1804 5, June 1802 2, January 1800 1
Round 4: June 1804 9 (9 previous points), September 1795 (2 thirds decree) 9 (5 previous points), June 1802 5, November 1852 3, January 1800 2, December 1851 1, September 2000 1

Rules are different in each round: please read the rules before voting.
The referendum which receives the biggest total of votes or points is eliminated.
In case of a tie, the referendum which has received the biggest total of previous votes is eliminated.
In case of a new tie, I, Emperor-President of this survivor, decide which is eliminated.

ROUND 5 IS OPEN !

Beware !In this round, you vote for 3 referendums to eliminate and for 2 referendums to keep.
We'll eliminate 1 referendum.
Beware !

[big bad fab]

Eliminate:
September 1795
January 1800
September 2000

Keep:
December 1851
November 1852

(In 2000, 5-year terms for French presidents was a BIG reform for which debate was completely void: Jospin and Chirac neutralized each other, it was made for circumstancial reasons whereas it modified deeply the constitutional balance in France... and the campaign was highly uninteresting )

[Antonio the Sixth]

Eliminate :
November 1852
December 1851
June 1802

Keep :
September 2000 (referendums should only go after plebiscites)
September 1795

And, as for our "subject", I'm more and more fed up with survivors in which we vote as if we support a football team
And I think Hans, Edu, jdb-Mr.X, Vazdul also vote more and more for "kewl", funny, interesting, fascinating, suspenseful, brilliant, original, etc, names or elections or cities or whatever.
It's really funnnier !

I never knew why you despised so much personal prefencence criteria in survivor votes. I think one's personal opinion of a person or an election is important and I find normal to vote out those one doesn't like. I of course respect your weird and complicated cirteria, but why should ours be assimilated with hackery ?

[big bad fab]

I never knew why you despised so much personal prefencence criteria in survivor votes. I think one's personal opinion of a person or an election is important and I find normal to vote out those one doesn't like. I of course respect your weird and complicated cirteria, but why should ours be assimilated with hackery ?

Because I vote a lot and so, I don't want to see much predictable results.
I was a hack once, in the World Leaders Survivor of hughento last year, which launched the survivormania here. But, then, it was fun only once .

And, like Hans or Edu, I want to learn by these survivors (hence "rarer" subjects) and when you read before voting, you always find many interesting things that pave the way for other votes (at least another vote than the one you first intended to cast).

You're right, that's not always hackery (though in the case of Sewersocialist, Libertas, or jfern and BRTD when they voted, this is pure hackery and 100% predictable). I'm not putting you in this category !
But some votes are lazy and predictable (1979 in UK elections, e.g., or Cheney in VP survivor, or Peron in Argentina survivor, though we successfully avoided to oust him immediately).
And some votes are stupid when "presidential candidates", "presidents", "presidential tickets", or "party leaders", "prime ministers" give the same results... This is just a problem of language, here .

And you're also right on one point: everyone is free to vote as he wishes.
And I'm also free to repeat and repeat my ideas, especially when I answer questions .

[Hash]

Eliminate:
September 1795
January 1800
September 2000

Keep:
December 1851
November 1852

[Hans-im-Glück]

Eliminate :
November 1852
December 1851
June 1802

Keep :
January 1800
September 1795

[Edu]

Eliminate
September 1795 (2 thirds decree)
January 1800
June 1802

Keep
September 2000
November 1852

[big bad fab]

July 1793 - "An I" constitution
September 1795 - "An III" constitution
September 1795 - "Two thirds" decree
January 1800 - "An VIII" constitution
June 1802 - Napoleon, consul for life
June 1804 - "An XII" constitution
May 1815 - Additional provision to Empire constitutions
20-21 December 1851 - Constitutional powers to Louis-Napoleon Bonaparte
21-22 November 1852 - Foundation of the 2nd Empire
8 mai 1870 - Constitutional draft of 20 April 1870
21 October 1945 - Constitutional powers to the Assembly
21 October 1945 - Provisional constitutional law
5 May 1946 - Constitutional draft of 19 April 1946
13 October 1946 - Constitution of the Fourth Republic
28 September 1958 - Constitution of the Fifth Republic
8 January 1961 - Self-determination in Algeria
8 April 1962 - Evian Treaty and Algeria's independence
28 October 1962 - Direct election of the President of the French Republic
27 April 1969 - Regional organization and Senate's reform
23 April 1972 - Enlargement of the European Communities
6 November 1988 - Self-determination in New Caledonia
20 September 1992 - Maastricht Treaty
24 September 2000 - Five-year presidential term
29 May 2005 - Constitutional Treaty of Europe

Results:
Round 1: July 1793 3, September 1795 (An III Constit.) 3, June 1804 3, November 1852 2, June 1802 1
Round 2: September 1795 (An III Constit.) 2 (3 previous points), May 1815 2 (0 previous point), June 1804 1, June 1802 1, November 1852 -1
Round 3: May 1815 7, September 1795 (2 thirds decree) 5, June 1804 5, June 1802 2, January 1800 1
Round 4: June 1804 9 (9 previous points), September 1795 (2 thirds decree) 9 (5 previous points), June 1802 5, November 1852 3, January 1800 2, December 1851 1, September 2000 1
Round 5: June 1802 3, January 1800 2, September 1795 (2 thirds decree) 1, December 1851 0, September 2000 0, November 1852 -1

Rules are different in each round: please read the rules before voting.
The referendum which receives the biggest total of votes or points is eliminated.
In case of a tie, the referendum which has received the biggest total of previous votes is eliminated.
In case of a new tie, I, Emperor-President of this survivor, decide which is eliminated.

ROUND 6 IS OPEN !

Beware !In this round, you vote to eliminate 1 referendum.
We'll eliminate 1 referendum.
Beware !

[big bad fab]

September 1795 (2 thirds decree)


(I hope next round's rule will be interesting...)

[Antonio the Sixth]

November 1852

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

29 May 2005 - Constitutional Treaty of Europe

[Edu]

September 1795 (2 thirds decree)

[Hash]

September 1795 (2 thirds decree)

[Hans-im-Glück]

September 1795 (2 thirds decree)

[Magic 8-Ball]

September 1795

[big bad fab]

July 1793 - "An I" constitution
September 1795 - "An III" constitution
September 1795 - "Two thirds" decree
January 1800 - "An VIII" constitution
June 1802 - Napoleon, consul for life
June 1804 - "An XII" constitution
May 1815 - Additional provision to Empire constitutions
20-21 December 1851 - Constitutional powers to Louis-Napoleon Bonaparte
21-22 November 1852 - Foundation of the 2nd Empire
8 mai 1870 - Constitutional draft of 20 April 1870
21 October 1945 - Constitutional powers to the Assembly
21 October 1945 - Provisional constitutional law
5 May 1946 - Constitutional draft of 19 April 1946
13 October 1946 - Constitution of the Fourth Republic
28 September 1958 - Constitution of the Fifth Republic
8 January 1961 - Self-determination in Algeria
8 April 1962 - Evian Treaty and Algeria's independence
28 October 1962 - Direct election of the President of the French Republic
27 April 1969 - Regional organization and Senate's reform
23 April 1972 - Enlargement of the European Communities
6 November 1988 - Self-determination in New Caledonia
20 September 1992 - Maastricht Treaty
24 September 2000 - Five-year presidential term
29 May 2005 - Constitutional Treaty of Europe

Results:
Round 1: July 1793 3, September 1795 (An III Constit.) 3, June 1804 3, November 1852 2, June 1802 1
Round 2: September 1795 (An III Constit.) 2 (3 previous points), May 1815 2 (0 previous point), June 1804 1, June 1802 1, November 1852 -1
Round 3: May 1815 7, September 1795 (2 thirds decree) 5, June 1804 5, June 1802 2, January 1800 1
Round 4: June 1804 9 (9 previous points), September 1795 (2 thirds decree) 9 (5 previous points), June 1802 5, November 1852 3, January 1800 2, December 1851 1, September 2000 1
Round 5: June 1802 3, January 1800 2, September 1795 (2 thirds decree) 1, December 1851 0, September 2000 0, November 1852 -1
Round 6: September 1795 (2 thirds decree) 5, November 1852 1, May 2005 1

Rules are different in each round: please read the rules before voting.
The referendum which receives the biggest total of votes or points is eliminated.
In case of a tie, the referendum which has received the biggest total of previous votes is eliminated.
In case of a new tie, I, Emperor-President of this survivor, decide which is eliminated.

ROUND 7 IS OPEN !

Beware !In this round, you have 2 points, that you can use as you wish to eliminate or to keep 2 different referendums (eliminate X and eliminate Y / eliminate X and keep Y / keep X and keep Y).
We'll eliminate 1 referendum.
Beware !

[big bad fab]

Eliminate January 1800

Eliminate September 2000

[Magic 8-Ball]

Eliminate January 1800 and December 1851

[Antonio the Sixth]

Eliminate December 1851 and November 1852

[Hash]

Eliminate January 1800 and September 2000

[Hans-im-Glück]

ELIMINATE:  January 1800

KEEP:  September 2000

[Edu]

Eliminate January 1800

Keep December 1851

[big bad fab]

July 1793 - "An I" constitution
September 1795 - "An III" constitution
September 1795 - "Two thirds" decree
January 1800 - "An VIII" constitution
June 1802 - Napoleon, consul for life
June 1804 - "An XII" constitution
May 1815 - Additional provision to Empire constitutions
20-21 December 1851 - Constitutional powers to Louis-Napoleon Bonaparte
21-22 November 1852 - Foundation of the 2nd Empire
8 mai 1870 - Constitutional draft of 20 April 1870
21 October 1945 - Constitutional powers to the Assembly
21 October 1945 - Provisional constitutional law
5 May 1946 - Constitutional draft of 19 April 1946
13 October 1946 - Constitution of the Fourth Republic
28 September 1958 - Constitution of the Fifth Republic
8 January 1961 - Self-determination in Algeria
8 April 1962 - Evian Treaty and Algeria's independence
28 October 1962 - Direct election of the President of the French Republic
27 April 1969 - Regional organization and Senate's reform
23 April 1972 - Enlargement of the European Communities
6 November 1988 - Self-determination in New Caledonia
20 September 1992 - Maastricht Treaty
24 September 2000 - Five-year presidential term
29 May 2005 - Constitutional Treaty of Europe

Results:
Round 1: July 1793 3, September 1795 (An III Constit.) 3, June 1804 3, November 1852 2, June 1802 1
Round 2: September 1795 (An III Constit.) 2 (3 previous points), May 1815 2 (0 previous point), June 1804 1, June 1802 1, November 1852 -1
Round 3: May 1815 7, September 1795 (2 thirds decree) 5, June 1804 5, June 1802 2, January 1800 1
Round 4: June 1804 9 (9 previous points), September 1795 (2 thirds decree) 9 (5 previous points), June 1802 5, November 1852 3, January 1800 2, December 1851 1, September 2000 1
Round 5: June 1802 3, January 1800 2, September 1795 (2 thirds decree) 1, December 1851 0, September 2000 0, November 1852 -1
Round 6: September 1795 (2 thirds decree) 5, November 1852 1, May 2005 1
Round 7: January 1800 5, September 2000 1, December 1851 1, November 1852 1

Rules are different in each round: please read the rules before voting.
The referendum which receives the biggest total of votes or points is eliminated.
In case of a tie, the referendum which has received the biggest total of previous votes is eliminated.
In case of a new tie, I, Emperor-President of this survivor, decide which is eliminated.

ROUND 8 IS OPEN !

Beware !In this round, you have 4 points, to cast 2-1-1.
We'll eliminate 1 referendum.
Beware !