Bush-Kerry Timeline

[Wakie]

Ok, I provided the link to the speech.  I would LOVE it if one of you guys who love to bash Kerry so much would show me WHERE in it he accuses all US soldiers of war crimes.  He talks about how he had just come from a meeting with other vets where some of them talked about committing them or seeing them committed.  He never says "all US soldiers are doing these things".  Attrocities happened during Vietnam, this is a well-documented fact.  They happen in all wars.

Secondly, Vietnam was a stupid cause for American soldiers to be dying for!  Let's pretend it was even possible for us to have won that war ... WHAT THE F@!$ WOULD WE HAVE WON!?!?  We still won the Cold War!  The NVA weren't launching attacks on American soil!  If it hadn't been for guys like John Kerry protesting the war we would have stayed there longer and more of our soldiers would have died.  Again, let's pretend we could have won ... what do we win?  Our ego's feel a little better?!?!  Is that worth an additional 1,000 deaths???

[James46]

Kerry said "thousands" committed war crimes, INCLUDING HIMSELF.

[James46]

Kerry said "thousands" committed war crimes, INCLUDING HIMSELF.  Of course, he was hopefully misrepresenting the truth.  As for VN war, don't judge it by today's standards.  We went in with good intentions, but the media twisted the truth so much that folks back here lost the will to win.  Any war stinks, but this one left a hell of a lot of scars that Kerry has re-opened.  And if he becomes President, he will have this fact haunt him.  He will be a loser even if he wins.  He just doesn't get it.  But then the Dems are so screwed up, they don't see any reality either.  That's why they are slowing moving into minority status and will be less of a factor as time moves on.  That can changed if they get back to a more moderate message, but I don't see that happening for a long time.  

[Wakie]

OK now you are just LYING.

Here's the complete text of his testimony ...

http://www.c-span.org/vote2004/jkerrytestimony.asp

You can either read the entire thing OR for speed do a search on the word 'thousands'.  Guess what?  That word is used twice and neither time in the manner which you claim.

QUIT LYING!

[James46]

I stand corrected.  He said "millions."  I also am impressed with your ability to mindread.  How were you able to determine I was lying as opposed to making a mistake.  That's the problem we have here.  You do not care to even consider any other viewpoint except your version of the truth.  The facts still are there.  Kerry apparently lost the election because the number one issue was morality.  Nitpick all you want.  Kerry betrayed his "brothers" with his comments.  He claimed to speak for "millions."  His conduct in VN spoke well for him (except any war crimes he may have committed), but and this is a huge but, his conduct before Congress said that his conduct in VN was not that of a "war hero," but a war criminal.  He cannot have it both ways.  In a sense, the conflict between the two illustrates well what many VN vets are still struggling with.  He had potential--his concession speech today showed that--but he never could figure where he stood.  And we couldn't afford a leader who had such unresolved issues.  For the record, a lie implies intention.  I did not intend to misquote Kerry.

[shankbear]

On the original timeline to now......

2004     Bush goes back to his house at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

2004     Kerry goes to one of TeRAyzas houses around the country and readys himself to continue as the Junior Senator from Massachusetts.

[Wakie]

I stand corrected.  He said "millions."  I also am impressed with your ability to mindread.  How were you able to determine I was lying as opposed to making a mistake.  That's the problem we have here.  You do not care to even consider any other viewpoint except your version of the truth.  The facts still are there.  Kerry apparently lost the election because the number one issue was morality.  Nitpick all you want.  Kerry betrayed his "brothers" with his comments.  He claimed to speak for "millions."  His conduct in VN spoke well for him (except any war crimes he may have committed), but and this is a huge but, his conduct before Congress said that his conduct in VN was not that of a "war hero," but a war criminal.  He cannot have it both ways.  In a sense, the conflict between the two illustrates well what many VN vets are still struggling with.  He had potential--his concession speech today showed that--but he never could figure where he stood.  And we couldn't afford a leader who had such unresolved issues.  For the record, a lie implies intention.  I did not intend to misquote Kerry.

Umm ... again, a search on the word 'million' delivers a handfull of instances, none of which are him accusing all of our soldiers.

I have provided you with a link to the full text of the speech.  If you take the time to read it you see that no where in there does he say what you claim he did.

So either you didn't bother to read it (which means you are willing to repeat the lies of others) or you are intentionally misleading (and therefore lying).  Which one is it?

[shankbear]

I have read it and it disgusted me that he said that the U.S. had "murdered" over 200,000 in Indochina.  It made me mad that he wanted the U.S. to pay "war reparations" to the people of Viet Nam.

His words may have not said millions or thousands but those words resonated with millions regardless.  He just didn't have anything else to run on so he grabbed his 4 months in Nam and he fell flat on his face with that.  A majority didn't buy what he was selling.  By 3.5 million votes.

[James46]

I'll say this one more time.  I was not "lying", that is, intentionally distorting the truth.  What you believe is your business.  I am not going to waste time on your nitpicking.  "Millions" are the number of soldiers he said were coming back as timebombs waiting to explode (my words).  He was dead wrong then and his misrepresentations clearly cost him the election.  John Kerry has some soul searching to do, or he will remain an insignificant footnote in history, which frankly is where is he and all the other jack-asses belong who questioned the integrity of our troops in the 60s and 70s.  That's all, friend.  Spend your time on some other worthless project!

[J. J.]

Here is what was actually said:

I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command.

It is impossible to describe to you exactly what did happen in Detroit, the emotions in the room, the feelings of the men who were reliving their experiences in Vietnam, but they did. They relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do.

They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, tape wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the country side of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.

Now, did this statement help undermine troop moral, and possibly increase the abuse of the POW's?  Yes.

Does the statement of an embittered 20-something uttered more than 30 years ago disqualify him being president?  No, though it shows his exceptionally bad judgment at that time.