Opinion of the Roman Catholic Church

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

A menace to the Civilized World for nearly 2000 years. It's an organization full of liars, hypocrites, and authoritarians.

Oh, you mean like the human race?

[Zarn]

Freedom Church... although I'm Catholic.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

positive (Protestant)

has saved or improved the lives of the poor more than any government or other organization

a deep source of spiritual and artistic beauty and philosophy through the ages

[President Mitt]

A menace to the Civilized World for nearly 2000 years. It's an organization full of liars, hypocrites, and authoritarians.

Oh, you mean like the human race?

Not exactly. The Catholic Church was the main instigator of violence for nearly 1000 years. In the middle ages if you were a Christian following a school different from Catholicism, there was no other penalty but violence and death. And if you were an enemy of the Pope, or even just a Country of a different faith, well you could expect a Crusade at your doorsteps. Didn't agree with everything the Church said? To the Inquisition with you! I mean if Christianity is all about confessing to your sins, then the Catholic Church has about 2000 years worth of sins to own up to.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

A menace to the Civilized World for nearly 2000 years. It's an organization full of liars, hypocrites, and authoritarians.

Oh, you mean like the human race?

Not exactly. The Catholic Church was the main instigator of violence for nearly 1000 years. In the middle ages if you were a Christian following a school different from Catholicism, there was no other penalty but violence and death. And if you were an enemy of the Pope, or even just a Country of a different faith, well you could expect a Crusade at your doorsteps. Didn't agree with everything the Church said? To the Inquisition with you! I mean if Christianity is all about confessing to your sins, then the Catholic Church has about 2000 years worth of sins to own up to.

Sorry, but we can please improve the level discourse here above some baseless anti-Catholic medieval fearmongering?

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

I have very little respect for the Church.

I will however make the difference that the Church often does not; I have no ill will at all to those who are practicing Catholics (as I was myself until recently) or to the faith. I do dislike the Church and the reasons why are not unusual and they are certainly not new.

We are lucky to live in liberal democracies where from town hall all the way up to the highest office in the land we have a right to elect people to represent us, to vote them out of office and to call for their resignation if they have abused their office in order to protect the integrity of that office. Other Christian denominations have structures that allow individual churches to have a say over their pastor and collectively to have a say on church leadership and direction. No such structure exists within the Church; there is a top down theocratic hierarchy and what stuns me is that the lay Catholic community seem not to mind. Or perhaps they just don't think about it. Yet when crises such as the abuse scandals rear their ugly heads they demand of the Church what we would demand of our politicians but the Church hierarchy lets them down; it has no room for the expression of dissent, anger or calls for change.

The current Pope, when he was still (just) Cardinal Ratzinger sent an official note to bishops telling them on pain of excommunication not to go to the police to report instances of abuse and that the issue was solely a matter for the Church to be 'constrained by perpetual silence.' In any other organsiation such a disgraceful act would preclude them from having any chance at the top job. But not in the Catholic Church.

And that's the problem. Catholicism needs a Reformation.

Yes and no.  You are correct in that what has been revealed is only the tip of the iceberg due to the fact that the problem was been covered up at the highest levels.  Though I disagree that a top-down approach is to blame, because in my church the board of trusties can vote the pastor out at any time, but the pastor is still the spiritual leader of our church.  It’s just that our pastor believes the laity has the ability to interpret scripture and should filter every word spoken at the pulpit through scripture – the laity’s relationship with God does NOT flow through the pastor.

And, most importantly, the pastor does not artificially attempt to force celibacy on people, which when forced will only manifest itself in sexual immorality, just as Paul warned not to attempt to dictate who needs sex nor to dictate who is oversexed. 

My pastor also runs a lexus-nexus search on everyone who starts regularly attending in order to be aware of potential sex offenders (I’m not sure, but this is the sole purpose of the search, he’s not trying to crucify people over their past criminal records and we have several regular members who have done time), and no adult, regardless of tenure, is permitted extended access to children without the presence of other adults.

We simply uphold the word of God while attempting to take common sense steps to avoid the problem altogether.

[President Mitt]

A menace to the Civilized World for nearly 2000 years. It's an organization full of liars, hypocrites, and authoritarians.

Oh, you mean like the human race?

Not exactly. The Catholic Church was the main instigator of violence for nearly 1000 years. In the middle ages if you were a Christian following a school different from Catholicism, there was no other penalty but violence and death. And if you were an enemy of the Pope, or even just a Country of a different faith, well you could expect a Crusade at your doorsteps. Didn't agree with everything the Church said? To the Inquisition with you! I mean if Christianity is all about confessing to your sins, then the Catholic Church has about 2000 years worth of sins to own up to.

Sorry, but we can please improve the level discourse here above some baseless anti-Catholic medieval fearmongering?

...

... how was my argument baseless? It's a well known fact that the Vatican used Warmongering Crusading to further their political agenda and continually burned and killed those who didn't agree with every principle in the Catholic Church. If you have facts that can rebuke what I laid out, please share.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

A menace to the Civilized World for nearly 2000 years. It's an organization full of liars, hypocrites, and authoritarians.

Oh, you mean like the human race?

Not exactly. The Catholic Church was the main instigator of violence for nearly 1000 years. In the middle ages if you were a Christian following a school different from Catholicism, there was no other penalty but violence and death. And if you were an enemy of the Pope, or even just a Country of a different faith, well you could expect a Crusade at your doorsteps. Didn't agree with everything the Church said? To the Inquisition with you! I mean if Christianity is all about confessing to your sins, then the Catholic Church has about 2000 years worth of sins to own up to.

Sorry, but we can please improve the level discourse here above some baseless anti-Catholic medieval fearmongering?

...

... how was my argument baseless? It's a well known fact that the Vatican used Warmongering Crusading to further their political agenda and continually burned and killed those who didn't agree with every principle in the Catholic Church. If you have facts that can rebuke what I laid out, please share.

Uh, no, that's not a "well-known fact". I'm talking about real history, not a cartoon version.

[RI]

While it is undeniable that many evils have and continue to exist within the Church, I feel like most people overlook the fact that the Catholic Church does, by far, the most good of any church in the world.

No other church has the level of dedication to social justice and the welfare of every person as the Catholic Church does. The Church operates thousands of hospitals, thousands of shelters, and thousands of schools throughout the world where there would otherwise be none. No other church does more for the impoverished, the hungry, and the needy of their communities than the Catholic Church. They never turn away a person in need. They practice a philosophy of peace, and actively help those seeking asylum from conflict and war.

The Catholic Church has been a friend of the scientific and artistic communities for many centuries now. Many of the greatest paintings and sculptures of the exist solely because of the Church. They are not so crass as to deny the discoveries of science, unlike so many other churches. They do not preach a exclusivity like many others religions, and, in fact, foster intellectual inquiry.

Of course the Church has its issues. It has deep ones at that. The Church needs to be more open to the reality that they are, as any institution made up of people, capable of errors, hypocrises,  and failings, occasionally terrible ones. Instead of trying to pursue a persona of incorruptibility, they must more readily flush those who commit grave crimes from their system and hold them accountable.

Nevertheless, the percentage of priests who do commit these acts of pedophilia is very minute; in fact, sexual abusers make up a much lower percentage amongst priests than amongst the general population. These are people who have willingly chosen what they knew to be a life of chastity; it was not forced upon them. If they wanted to have sex, they should have chosen a different line of work. The problem is not the system, but the individuals who abuse it.

[President Mitt]

A menace to the Civilized World for nearly 2000 years. It's an organization full of liars, hypocrites, and authoritarians.

Oh, you mean like the human race?

Not exactly. The Catholic Church was the main instigator of violence for nearly 1000 years. In the middle ages if you were a Christian following a school different from Catholicism, there was no other penalty but violence and death. And if you were an enemy of the Pope, or even just a Country of a different faith, well you could expect a Crusade at your doorsteps. Didn't agree with everything the Church said? To the Inquisition with you! I mean if Christianity is all about confessing to your sins, then the Catholic Church has about 2000 years worth of sins to own up to.

Sorry, but we can please improve the level discourse here above some baseless anti-Catholic medieval fearmongering?

...

... how was my argument baseless? It's a well known fact that the Vatican used Warmongering Crusading to further their political agenda and continually burned and killed those who didn't agree with every principle in the Catholic Church. If you have facts that can rebuke what I laid out, please share.

Uh, no, that's not a "well-known fact". I'm talking about real history, not a cartoon version.

...Ok... please tell me then, what is the real history of the Catholic Church?

[Hash]

Very negative (ex-Catholic)

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

A menace to the Civilized World for nearly 2000 years. It's an organization full of liars, hypocrites, and authoritarians.

Oh, you mean like the human race?

Not exactly. The Catholic Church was the main instigator of violence for nearly 1000 years. In the middle ages if you were a Christian following a school different from Catholicism, there was no other penalty but violence and death. And if you were an enemy of the Pope, or even just a Country of a different faith, well you could expect a Crusade at your doorsteps. Didn't agree with everything the Church said? To the Inquisition with you! I mean if Christianity is all about confessing to your sins, then the Catholic Church has about 2000 years worth of sins to own up to.

Sorry, but we can please improve the level discourse here above some baseless anti-Catholic medieval fearmongering?

...

... how was my argument baseless? It's a well known fact that the Vatican used Warmongering Crusading to further their political agenda and continually burned and killed those who didn't agree with every principle in the Catholic Church. If you have facts that can rebuke what I laid out, please share.

Uh, no, that's not a "well-known fact". I'm talking about real history, not a cartoon version.

...Ok... please tell me then, what is the real history of the Catholic Church?

Right, let's sum up the history of a 2000-year-old global institution in a couple of quick simplistic soundbytes...that's a bad idea, Giovanni.

Educate yourself.

There's plenty to read on the history of the Church.

One good book to read is Tom Woods' book How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

While it is undeniable that many evils have and continue to exist within the Church, I feel like most people overlook the fact that the Catholic Church does, by far, the most good of any church in the world.

No other church has the level of dedication to social justice and the welfare of every person as the Catholic Church does. The Church operates thousands of hospitals, thousands of shelters, and thousands of schools throughout the world where there would otherwise be none. No other church does more for the impoverished, the hungry, and the needy of their communities than the Catholic Church. They never turn away a person in need. They practice a philosophy of peace, and actively help those seeking asylum from conflict and war.

The Catholic Church has been a friend of the scientific and artistic communities for many centuries now. Many of the greatest paintings and sculptures of the exist solely because of the Church. They are not so crass as to deny the discoveries of science, unlike so many other churches. They do not preach a exclusivity like many others religions, and, in fact, foster intellectual inquiry.

Of course the Church has its issues. It has deep ones at that. The Church needs to be more open to the reality that they are, as any institution made up of people, capable of errors, hypocrises,  and failings, occasionally terrible ones. Instead of trying to pursue a persona of incorruptibility, they must more readily flush those who commit grave crimes from their system and hold them accountable.

Nevertheless, the percentage of priests who do commit these acts of pedophilia is very minute; in fact, sexual abusers make up a much lower percentage amongst priests than amongst the general population. These are people who have willingly chosen what they knew to be a life of chastity; it was not forced upon them. If they wanted to have sex, they should have chosen a different line of work. The problem is not the system, but the individuals who abuse it.

Thank you for an excellent and well-balanced post. If this forum had a rep system you'd a green for it.

[fezzyfestoon]

Dedication to welfare yet they own a country worth billions in tourist attractions.  I wonder how many starving children they could feed if the worth of the Vatican was used for something worthwhile.

The bigger problem with the sex abuse isn't that it's happening but that it keeps happening and the Vatican's only response is to try and stop us from finding out.  That's not a solution.  It's an arrogant holier-than-thou (pardon the pun) attitude that they get away with!  They swear their victims to secrecy and just shift the abuser around to make sure nothing comes of it.  That's not a dedication to welfare and social justice.

But then they also waged war and killed up to 2 million people, so take that for what it's worth.

[RIP Robert H Bork]

Well, I am a Roman Catholic....

[fezzyfestoon]

Well, I am a Roman Catholic....

So?  I'm a Republican.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

It's an interesting question....I don't view the Church I go to with my wife as THE Catholic Church......I rather like our parish (I'm not Catholic, but the service is strikingly similar to the Orthodox Church, just shorter)......

It's the giant monster in Rome I view as the Catholic Church and I have very little regard for it.

[??????????]

Fezzy, are you referring to the justified response of islamic invasions of europe now called the crusades?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Something tells me StatesRights did not enjoy the Assassin's Creed games.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

Something tells me StatesRights did not enjoy the Assassin's Creed games.

Why not? What does enjoying a video game have to do with this thread topic?

[Хahar 🤔]

Fezzy, are you referring to the justified response of islamic invasions of europe now called the crusades?

That's the first I've ever heard that idea advanced.

[dead0man]

Fezzy, are you referring to the justified response of islamic invasions of europe now called the crusades?

That's the first I've ever heard that idea advanced.

From the first line in wikipedia under the topic Crusades:Immediate Cause

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[SvenssonRS]

The Church itself is a corrupted, bigoted hate organization. It does not reflect well on everyday Catholics - because believe me, I was born into them.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

The Church itself is a corrupted, bigoted hate organization. It does not reflect well on everyday Catholics - because believe me, I was born into them.

The Church is not a corrupted bigoted hate organization.

[SvenssonRS]

The Church itself is a corrupted, bigoted hate organization. It does not reflect well on everyday Catholics - because believe me, I was born into them.

The Church is not a corrupted bigoted hate organization.

The organized part of it is just a tool for controlling unsuspecting masses. As I said, the religion itself is not inherently that way. It's just the figureheads that claim to lead it.