Should the Greek government have continued lying?

[Landslide Lyndon]

  Meanwhile, Britain won't contribute a dime (which seemed obvious to me) to the EU bailout fund, which is amusingly small to handle all of the problems in Europe, which go far beyond Greece.  Not to mention the rumors of currency swaps starting again between the US and European banks.

Yeah, only an economic mind of your magnitude could foresee the fact that a non-Eurozone country would contribute nothing to save a Eurozone country.

Your reading skills need improvement.  Just because I said that "it seems obvious to me" doesn't mean that it wouldn't be obvious to anyone else either with a brain. 

Well, if you want to call the other members of the forum idiots (instead of explaining what's going on) then be my guest.

[Beet]

 Meanwhile, Britain won't contribute a dime (which seemed obvious to me) to the EU bailout fund, which is amusingly small to handle all of the problems in Europe, which go far beyond Greece.  Not to mention the rumors of currency swaps starting again between the US and European banks.

Yeah, only an economic mind of your magnitude could foresee the fact that a non-Eurozone country would contribute nothing to save a Eurozone country.

Your reading skills need improvement.  Just because I said that "it seems obvious to me" doesn't mean that it wouldn't be obvious to anyone else either with a brain.  

Well, if you want to call the other members of the forum idiots (instead of explaining what's going on) then be my guest.

It's obvious what's going on. The politics in Greece create social problems when the government tries to institute a program ala Ireland or Latvia to get control of the budget. The same is true of some other southern European countries. And Greece particularly needs to devalue, internally or externally. Certainly not having riots would help. (as would some action by the ECB)

[Sbane]

  Meanwhile, Britain won't contribute a dime (which seemed obvious to me) to the EU bailout fund, which is amusingly small to handle all of the problems in Europe, which go far beyond Greece.  Not to mention the rumors of currency swaps starting again between the US and European banks.

Yeah, only an economic mind of your magnitude could foresee the fact that a non-Eurozone country would contribute nothing to save a Eurozone country.

Your reading skills need improvement.  Just because I said that "it seems obvious to me" doesn't mean that it wouldn't be obvious to anyone else either with a brain. 

Well, if you want to call the other members of the forum idiots (instead of explaining what's going on) then be my guest.

It's obvious what's going on. The politics in Greece create social problems when the government tries to institute a program ala Ireland or Latvia to get control of the budget. The same is true of some other southern European countries. And Greece particularly needs to devalue, internally or externally. Certainly not having riots would help. (as would some action by the ECB)

Just wondering, but didn't the austerity measures in Ireland actually deepen the recession there as well as increasing their debt? So if the same thing is forced upon Greece, wouldn't the result be the same, probably leading to a default later on down the road?

[Gustaf]

I believe Sweden has not ruled out taking part in the bail-out, even though we're not a euro country and demands were raised before for all EU nations to take part in the bail-out, so Px75 is almost as clueless about European politics as he is regarding economics.

[Landslide Lyndon]

I believe Sweden has not ruled out taking part in the bail-out, even though we're not a euro country and demands were raised before for all EU nations to take part in the bail-out, so Px75 is almost as clueless about European politics as he is regarding economics.

There is a world of difference between having not ruled out something and actually doing it.
Obama didn't rule out the public option and appointing Wood at SCOTUS but we all saw what happened in the end.

But again, thanks for the nice words. It's good to see Einzinge vindicated.

[Beet]

 Meanwhile, Britain won't contribute a dime (which seemed obvious to me) to the EU bailout fund, which is amusingly small to handle all of the problems in Europe, which go far beyond Greece.  Not to mention the rumors of currency swaps starting again between the US and European banks.

Yeah, only an economic mind of your magnitude could foresee the fact that a non-Eurozone country would contribute nothing to save a Eurozone country.

Your reading skills need improvement.  Just because I said that "it seems obvious to me" doesn't mean that it wouldn't be obvious to anyone else either with a brain.  

Well, if you want to call the other members of the forum idiots (instead of explaining what's going on) then be my guest.

It's obvious what's going on. The politics in Greece create social problems when the government tries to institute a program ala Ireland or Latvia to get control of the budget. The same is true of some other southern European countries. And Greece particularly needs to devalue, internally or externally. Certainly not having riots would help. (as would some action by the ECB)

Just wondering, but didn't the austerity measures in Ireland actually deepen the recession there as well as increasing their debt? So if the same thing is forced upon Greece, wouldn't the result be the same, probably leading to a default later on down the road?

Then why hasn't Ireland defaulted? Not only has Ireland not defaulted but its CDS spreads improved continually until the Greek crisis.

Btw, I have no problem with a devaluation-- the Polish example is quite clear. Poland is the only country in the Western world that actually grew in 2009 (minus perhaps Australia), and that is due to the fact that its currency is not tied to the euro. Note that the Poles did not outright default on their debt, but they did devalue. I also believe the Argentines did the right thing by defaulting. The problem is that the devaluation of both the zloty and the Argentinian peso occurred without a systemic risk.

If the markets can't handle a devaluation without a complete meltdown, it's hard to see a good path out in any case. Perhaps Greece should be kicked out of the euro, and massive liquidity should be pumped into the system by the ECB to counter the ensuing panic.

[Sbane]

Yes, the situation is made 10 times worse by the fact that Greece uses the Euro. I think it's in everyone's best interest they leave the Euro. But shouldn't the Spanish and the Portuguese do the same? Or are they not in as much trouble?

[Gustaf]

I believe Sweden has not ruled out taking part in the bail-out, even though we're not a euro country and demands were raised before for all EU nations to take part in the bail-out, so Px75 is almost as clueless about European politics as he is regarding economics.

There is a world of difference between having not ruled out something and actually doing it.
Obama didn't rule out the public option and appointing Wood at SCOTUS but we all saw what happened in the end.

But again, thanks for the nice words. It's good to see Einzinge vindicated.

You're not very bright, are you? You claimed that it was a truism to say that a non-euro country would not take part in the bail-out. I pointed out that this was not the case. I just don't think you should treat people like idiots when you're wrong. Either you weren't sure that you were right (since you were wrong) and then you should pick your words more carefully. Or you are certain that you are right when you're not, in which case you should start questioning your assumptions more often. In this thread you have repeatedly acted condescendingly towards people even though they were right and you were not (which you have yet to acknowledge).

I really don't know what Einzige has to do with it either, but your attitude towards others is slightly reminiscient of his, I suppose.

[Landslide Lyndon]

I believe Sweden has not ruled out taking part in the bail-out, even though we're not a euro country and demands were raised before for all EU nations to take part in the bail-out, so Px75 is almost as clueless about European politics as he is regarding economics.

There is a world of difference between having not ruled out something and actually doing it.
Obama didn't rule out the public option and appointing Wood at SCOTUS but we all saw what happened in the end.

But again, thanks for the nice words. It's good to see Einzinge vindicated.

You're not very bright, are you? You claimed that it was a truism to say that a non-euro country would not take part in the bail-out. I pointed out that this was not the case. I just don't think you should treat people like idiots when you're wrong. Either you weren't sure that you were right (since you were wrong) and then you should pick your words more carefully. Or you are certain that you are right when you're not, in which case you should start questioning your assumptions more often. In this thread you have repeatedly acted condescendingly towards people even though they were right and you were not (which you have yet to acknowledge).

I really don't know what Einzige has to do with it either, but your attitude towards others is slightly reminiscient of his, I suppose.

Well, when a non-Eurozone country gives money to save a Eurozone country you're free to call me. But I have a hunch that you will wait for a looooooong time.
And shouldn't a mod like you show more maturity than a member of the unwashed masses like me?

As for me being like Einzinge, I'll let the other members judge the wisdom of your comment.

[Gustaf]

I believe Sweden has not ruled out taking part in the bail-out, even though we're not a euro country and demands were raised before for all EU nations to take part in the bail-out, so Px75 is almost as clueless about European politics as he is regarding economics.

There is a world of difference between having not ruled out something and actually doing it.
Obama didn't rule out the public option and appointing Wood at SCOTUS but we all saw what happened in the end.

But again, thanks for the nice words. It's good to see Einzinge vindicated.

You're not very bright, are you? You claimed that it was a truism to say that a non-euro country would not take part in the bail-out. I pointed out that this was not the case. I just don't think you should treat people like idiots when you're wrong. Either you weren't sure that you were right (since you were wrong) and then you should pick your words more carefully. Or you are certain that you are right when you're not, in which case you should start questioning your assumptions more often. In this thread you have repeatedly acted condescendingly towards people even though they were right and you were not (which you have yet to acknowledge).

I really don't know what Einzige has to do with it either, but your attitude towards others is slightly reminiscient of his, I suppose.

Well, when a non-Eurozone country gives money to save a Eurozone country you're free to call me. But I have a hunch that you will wait for a looooooong time.
And shouldn't a mod like you show more maturity than a member of the unwashed masses like me?

As for me being like Einzinge, I'll let the other members judge the wisdom of your comment.

Gosh. I'm just about to give up on you. Are you trying to annoy me or do you really not understand the point I'm making? The point is not that it will happen but that it was suggested and discussed seriously. Anyway, after having looked it up it seems that Sweden has promised to take part in the guarantees, so it seems the time period I had to wait wasn't all that long.

The argument that it is ok for you to be immature, but not for me is very mature of you, but no. My behaviour is not like yours. I haven't rolled my eyes at someone who was right, for instance.

And I still don't get what Einzige has to do with anything. As I said, your hostility even when you're wrong is a trait you share with him, but other than that I don't really see any connection he could have to you being wrong and lashing out at people.